Why My Opinion on DS Has Changed
I used to constantly cry for DS changes, "It's unfair, free gen time!", "It's used outside of tunneling scenarios!" etc. But now I genuinely believe that DS should be left alone. Make sure to keep the insults in the comments original.
DS: Is it avoidable?
The latest patch got me to play killer a lot more, and there was one major thing missing from the experience: stress. Before patch, I would be constantly stressing about which survivors to chase and have to critically analyze the situation of the entire map every 30 seconds or I could make a mistake and lose out on some kills. Chases are now much shorter and my time is easier to manage. I have to worry less about keeping track of every single gen and survivor, and I can instead focus on improving my chase game and general power usage. Billy was bugged in the latest patch, but my first few games with him(against red rank swf) were some of the most fun experiences I've had as killer in dbd. My small mistakes felt more forgiving, my big mistakes were redeemable, and best of all I didn't even need to think about DS anymore. The time constraints feel lenient enough to allow me to not go back to the unhooked survivor out of desperation, but to instead spend some time checking more gens, maybe even kicking a few(crazy, I know). Even Ghostface felt much better, shorter chases meant I could pop exposed on survivors without worrying about it being wasted. Overall, I think if you try to pick up the same survivor within 60 seconds you don't deserve to get away scott free even if the survivor went into a locker to try and waste your time or hopped on a generator with a cocky attitude. Best of all, less of my games reach end game where DS feels the most threatening.
DS: Is it powerful?
The short answer is an obvious yes. Denying the killer an instant re hook is amazing for the survivor team if the killer tries to tunnel, and it might still have use(bodyblocking?) even if the killer is playing normally. But I do want to clarify: DS is not overpowered, it only activates when the killer chooses and a 4 second stun is pretty much an average effect compared to Adrenaline, Unbreakable, and sometimes even BT. It is even more situational with an effect that is only better in some situations(last hook, last few seconds of timer, egc). In terms of power, I would put it above Iron Will but below the perks mentioned above.
DS is in a good spot and promotes more interactive game play by killers so I personally hope it doesn't get substantially touched and it's tunnel city all over again. I never used DS personally because I was confident that I could lead killers on a long enough chase if they came back to hook. Some changes I would like to DS are: a built in 60 second timer, something simple like the obsession marker glowing red for 60 seconds after a survivor is unhooked could go a long way towards helping newer killers understand why they keep getting stabbed and for DS to tick down faster(+200%?) while doing risky actions like gens and totems for survivors, deactivating when doing the most risky actions in the game like unhooking teammates, opening the exit gate, or stating your opinion on the forums.
Comments
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The notice would help newer killers. The only thing i would want changed about ds is if the killer hooks someone else it shuts off. Too many times i hook one, leave, hook another, the first survivor bt saves right in front of me, i down the first survivor again and they still have ds. I wasn't tunnelling as they came to me. As much as i hate ds i know why its still here. To help with tunneling off the hook. However even if i dont tunnel i still have to deal with it. When that 60 sec timer starts if they decide to get in my face i either have to slug or if they get in a locker i have to take the stun.
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That's too abusable. I would rather DS cover all tunneling scenarios and then some instead of covering most tunneling scenarios except a few key ones. If they could implement it without allowing the killer to tunnel I would be all for it.
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Oh also my second change idea for DS would prevent you from eating DS in that scenario.
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Hmm..I see the idea but my sole concern is during the end game where it is all but a free escape and nothing short of a mori can help you ..that's my beef...
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My advice has always been to camp during end game so you can guarantee trades. It's the most effective way to secure kills.
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And that in lies the problem..that's your best last option but ds says "lul if the gate isnt across the map I escape for free and bt garunteed he will too" the rest of the time its minor annoyances like just carelessly destroying my hag traps but it's still something I can play around ..a perk shouldnt be a checkmate like this without a heavy prerequisite or risk I.E. devour hope..
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Even if the gate is across the map the other 3 can still body block. Running noed or playing certain killers isnt a solution either. I should be able to counter a scenario as any killer not just the current meta.
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Yeah it's kinda crazy
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That's still abuseable. Way too abuseable by killers, actually.
I completely disagree with a deactivation if someone else gets hooked.
What's gonnna stop the killer from slugging you, or downing your rescuer within 10 seconds of saving you? Only to hook them, deactivate your DS, then hook you again, all in less than a minute. That's still technically tunnelling.
A survivor shouldn't be punished for other survivors ######### actions such as farming you.
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A much better solution, in my very honest opinion, is deactivate when you interact with anything at all.
This means, it will deactivate if you: Touch a gen, touch a totem, go in a locker, unhook someone else, touch a gate, touch a hook (sabo), etc.
Because honestly, if you're doing any of the above mentioned, you're probably not being tunnelled.
Otherwise the timer should last indefinitely until you interact.
AND, to make it more fair for killer: During EGC, there WILL be a 20 second timer on DS, no matter what, instead of lasting forever.
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The thing is that it's not just a stun. It's also a free health state.
It's not a counter to "tunneling" at all, it's just an invitation to be invincible - which honestly is a problem I have with a lot of the best perks: They grant the ability to play as if the killer isn't dangerous at all.
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If the killer downs your rescuer 10 seconds after saving you then maybe you shouldn't have saved that survivor. If you got pulled off the hook and I downed+hooked the person who saved you. That's quite a bit of time for you to run away.
As for the "should last indefinitely until you interact with something" well old DS was almost indefinitely. If you were the obsession you could use DS at any point you got picked up. If you werent the obsession all you had to do was wiggle to like 30% which didn't take long. The current DS is better but it is still not balanced. If your pulled off the hook and the killer isn't chasing you, then you shouldn't be running towards him because you got a get out of jail free card. That's my issue with the current DS. It's the people who take that 60 seconds and go after the killer because they know they are safe. The killer can either eat the DS or slug. The 2nd option can be countered by running unbreakable. It may not sound like a lot but that time is precious to any M1 killer that is not in the meta.
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I know DS is an anti tunnel perk, but the opposite, the anti gen rush Perk (Ruin) got nerfed into the ground. Why does DS still get to be around,and on FOUR people instead of the ONE ruin that could be destroyed? Behavior still won't make it an actual level playing field as they need those sweet survivor monies. They are the equivalent of a terrible company that only cares about short term profits and is fine with high turnover.
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Decisive strike is strongest perk of the game. As a killer, i would be willing to trade 2 of ANY killer perks just to get rid of DS. Sure it's anti tunnel perk but it's also anti snowball which punishes me if i have multiple survivors injured, multiple survivors hooked in short period of time. I can slug the survivors but that time still allows the survivors to recover and they avoided another hook stage becouse of one perks passive ability threat.
But as a solo survivor it's amazing perk, like i said it's strongest perk in the game. Not any killer perk comes even close. If devs asked tomorrow to delete any killer perk of their choose in trade of DS.. they wouldn't accept it.
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If you have 4 Survivors left during EGC, you already lost the game.
Strange, Killers already complained about "Gen Rush" (aka Gens going not slow enough to help them to get their Kills aka the inability of applying Map Pressure) with old Ruin.
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I would like to see DS as an anti-tunnel perk again only. Shouldn't punish the killer if he downs to quick. DS should be deactivated if the killer got another hook. It could be activated again the second time.
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It was 'nerfed', though its actually better now because at least before enduring worked and you could juggle people to hooks, and it was only one person who was really a problem. So no, it actually got better. While Ruin just got worse. Way worse.
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Yes, and the change only made it worse.
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As a main killer, I can tell that if you simply don't tunnel in your matches, you are making survivors waste a perk slot.
And this, is good for me as a killer of course. I just have to not tunnel, and I make a popular perk useless.
A lot of people is running this perk so, making them waste a perk slot gives a little advantage.
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Nope, new DS was a buff
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No, you are wrong.
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Also the objective 'facts' are anything but facts.
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If its easily argued something was a side grade like with the DS change saying it was nerfed isn't an objective fact.
Also overall effectiveness of ruin has gone down so it was nerfed while also not making it more consistent as It always negated the bonus progression of great skill checks which mind you became a big enough of an issue that the devs had to nerf great skill checks recently because ruin wasn't keeping them in check in anymore.
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And it still wasn't enough to make up for the huge nerf to ruin.
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I don't want to complain about DS but..
It's goddamn awful to get hit by DS even without tunnelling.
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Make it so it won’t go away if you’re on the ground even it the killer hooks someone else in the meantime? I said it many times. Really easy fix.
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Several things about this game are awful. You learn to live with them. 😂
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Agreed i used to think ds was op but now im fine with it. Even in endgame the survivors play extremly cocky since they have ds and run all the way back to get a save then you just slug them for 60 seconds and get a free kill
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Why not make ds a totem perk. Kinda like Inner Strength. It would guarantee that it can’t be abused. There are normally 5 totems on every map. That would mean that one person has the potential of getting 2 if the team as a whole gets one each. (Assuming the team works together and everyone gets one) (perfect world) Which means you would have to pick and choose what you want to use it for. Inner strenth or DS?. If someone did try to abuse it and try to break as many totems as possible, they will still only get two attempts at DS because they still have to hit the skill check. There are multiple killer perks relying on totems, why not do the same for survivors.
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First: it's a 5 second stun, and the biggest distance creator in the game.
Second: the problem with DS is that it is at the core of every multi-layer protection combo. DS/Unbreakable, DS/BT, DS/Adrenaline, DS/Deliverence (questionable, I admit), DS/Inner Strength... The list goes on. These perks are powerful on their own, but you put them together and it's like chocolate and peanut butter. Or, if you are the killer in that situation, shite and vomit. I'm all for perk combo's, but DS is a huge, huge issue simply because you have to play around it's combo's.
Third: it is yet another straw on the metaphorical camel's back, and a very big one at that. Almost a haybale, tbh. You may be of the opinion that killer isn't stressful, but maybe the rest of us don't like playing Dark Souls blindfolded. Confuse 2 survivors and suddenly everyone gets away. Miscount the timer and everyone gets away. Forget who used what perk when and they get away. Play around a DS that's not in the match and they get away. Because of this, a team doesn't even need a single DS to get the benefit. It is an ACTUAL technique to jump in a locker when the killer comes your way WITHOUT HAVING DS. And that's not a red flag? I've gone against teams that run other perks that give an obsession, play super obnoxiously, and still get the benefit because you had no way of knowing that that 1 Claudette had For The People instead of all 4 having DS/Unbreakable.
Lastly: the 60-second slug. The counter that isn't even a counter. The only time slugging the DS works is when they don't jump into a locker AND they don't have a perk to pick themselves up. I'm all for slugging, but a forced 60 seconds where you aren't allowed to hook someone is a bit dumb, especially if the team screwed up. Killer is all about the snowball: a perk to disrupt that for free is bad enough, but a potential 16? Including 1 that works in every situation because it forces another perk to trigger? I just LOVE getting outperked. Boy howdy, it's so fun.
Edit: lastly lastly, the Devs consider being the Obsession to be a downside and so hitting the skillcheck is a risk/reward scenario, yet even against Rancor being the obsession is a mixed buff/debuff, and that is literally the worst-case scenario.
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Jumping into lockers isn't a strategy, any good killer knows to immediately grab the survivor. Multi-layer protection for 60 seconds is as easily avoidable as just DS in most ways. If you play killer using actual strategy, it's easy to make most survivor perks a waste.
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There are tunnel scenarios whereas DS is not even that useful, I've been chased for more than a whooping 2 minutes, fresh out of the hook, by a killer and DS would not be able to help me there, since I was only downed way past it's time limit. Is it powerful now? Yes, is it infallible? Hell no. And it's an one time deal, therefore it can't really get abused and once eaten success or not, it's gone forever and you're officially running with only 3 perks to your name now.
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Totembound perks for survivors? I really like that idea. Why only bind killerperks to totems.
Innerstrength is a free heal, earned by doing a totem. Earning second chance perks by doing totems would solve a couple of problems with them, like stacking 15 second chances over the team and give totems some real value.
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Since when did the devs consider being the obsession a negative? unless someone is the target of rancor or journal Myers being the obsession is a net positive 90% of the time
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Multilayer protection is only avoidable if the survivors don't abuse it, and... Well, by definition there's no reason not to abuse it except generally being a nice person.
And I'm not sure what you mean with the whole locker-DS thing, please clarify?
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Go read the DS rework post, they specifically talk about the risk/reward of getting free BUT becoming the obsession
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jumping in lockers is a great strategy if you do or don't have ds especially if there are 1-2 gens left since the killer had to make a crucial decision on whether to eat a stun and waste time or ignore the survivor and protect gens which leaves that survivor to do whatever they want
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Imo tunneling is targeting one survivor over a long time (like a 80 sec chase with one surv). Coming back to the hook and going for the unhooked again was always something differnt for me. But I think thats just a definition thing.
So DS was never an anti tunneling perk in my definition. Its just for a saver unhook, just like BT. They have the same purpose and so they synergize pretty good.
Imo if you want DS to be an anti tunnel perk, make it activate in the chase after x amount of time passed (while in a chase). Killers would penalized for a too long chase with one survivor and survivors would need to put in some effort to activate DS.
As for the going for the unhooked survivor issue, there is borrowed time amd team mates who should make sure you dont get downed again after the unhook. Current DS just compensates the failure of your mates.
Just my opinion :)
Have a nice day
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There's no downside to opening lockers. Either you call the survivor's bluff or remove their DS early. The strategy is only as strong as the killer makes it, like camping.
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How would they abuse it? Do gens like normal or take unnecessary risks and get pressured?
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But then the killer would just slug and you can't use ds so it's technically a lose lose situation and you'd be better off not running ds at all.
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Not if they're all on death hook.
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I don't think you've read my full comment. DS would last indefinitely until you do something. So slugging would be pointless. You either pick them up and eat the DS, or a survivor picks them up. Since a pickup from dying state is not considered a full heal, your DS will remain active.
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Run into your face and bodyblock/save/pickup. Maybe don't assume someone is 'pressured' just because they get hit, there's no pressure if there's no consequence. I cannot tell you the number of times a team has gotten a completely free, no-skill-required save by running at the hooked/slugged person with DS/BT.
The thing about "risks", by the way, is that there is RISK involved. DS takes away a lot of risk, and all it's combo's remove risk completely. That's why it's such an unhealthy perk: it's so damn easy to abuse.
And yeah, if someone heals or sits on a gen and still hits that skillcheck, they abused DS. They clearly didn't need it, they weren't getting tunelled, and they should not have gotten a free escape and a 5 second ahead start. Talk about counterplay all you want, the killer has no idea whether or not you have DS or are bluffing. The best "counterplay" is to call them and potentially eat the damn perk... which isn't counterplay by any definition.
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