Camping Is Two Sided
Ok so I am going to try and keep this short and sweet feel free to disagree just no entitlement about it please. I constantly see survivors non stop sitting on gens instead of doing chases which is the main point of the game survivor/killer interaction but get upset when killers camp since no one will interact. So I ask what is the difference? According to survivors I ask it is because gens are part of objective. But killing is a part of the killer objective so what is the real difference? I’m not trying to condone camping I think it’s bad both ways I just want to bring light that camping is a thing on both angles and we should forget about just kills and gens and try to make it enjoyable for everyone.
tldr: sitting on gens and sitting on hooks are the same thing let’s avoid them both and have some fun interaction
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Every time I get salt for camping, i point this out. They never see it as the same thing. Camping is boring for both sides....so is gen rushing. I'm just doing the objective....so am I. Gen rush is a legit tactic...so is camping.
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Well, 2 reasons:
- Survivors HAVE TO complete gens to be able to escape the game.
- Killers dont have to camp to get kills, and in fact, its counter productive to camp.
As for interaction, again:
- a survivor can interact with gens, totems, injured survivors and the killer. If there is a lack of injured survivors(or the injured survivor has no interest in being healed) a lack of killer and no totem in sight, they will do gens.
- a killer can pretty much only interact with survivors, dropped pallets and generators. If a survivor is hooked and no nearby dropped pallet, a killer should go patrol gens, unless he has information that gens are not being done(surveillance for example), then he has no reason to leave the hook(but often, like you said, at least 1 survivor is doing gens, so you should stop them from doing so).
So no, sitting on gens and sitting on hooks are not similar at all. One is literally an interaction and productive, the other is a lack of interaction and counter-productive unless its literally the only objective.
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It's actually not counterproductive, as survivors remove their brains the instant you camp. They'll flock to the hook and feed you kills
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Except that killers call something genrushing, when it is not. If I, a random and someone else happen to be on a gen while you chase the 4th person. We dont know what everyone is doing, all we know is that we are not being chased and the killer isnt coming for us. So we do gens, as we need to do gens to activate the gate and its counterproductive to stop doing gens unless someone needs saving. That is not a genrush, that is a lack of killer putting pressure on gens.
As for a killer, no, camping is not required for the objective. In fact, because you put all your pressure on that hook, that means there is 0 pressure on gens, leaving survivors with 1 option: doing gens. So its counter productive to camp, because instead of having 1 person doing gens(1 person on hook, 1 person going to save the person on hook and probably heal while you chase 1 person, only leaves 1 person to do gens) you have 3 people doing gens(1 on hook, you camping the hook and 3 people doing 3 gens at the same time). So while camping, you literally are forcing a genrush, while chasing someone for too long and not putting pressure on generators at all, you're also forcing a genrush.
Yes, killer is more difficult, but if you refuse putting pressure on gens because you like chasing that meg more than you like patrolling gens, then dont complain about a genrush, because you're not giving any other options. If you leave that meg, that meg first has to confirm you left her, that meg has to make sure its not tinkerer or anything else, then that meg has to gain her bearings and then that meg will start working on a gen from scratch, while you go interrupt someone who has been able to work on a gen for 60 seconds, kick that gen to start it regressing and then once you've chased them long enough, you go check back on that meg who probably is halfway done with her gen, while the gen you kicked regressed quite a bit.
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Some do, which is why Kindred on solo survivor is one of the strongest perks right now. But even including that, 2 people would come check it out, see if you're camping and once they realize they cant do #########, they will go back on gens, losing maybe 10 seconds, but that still leaves 50 seconds to work on gens. Meaning that they can meet up with the other player and finish 2.5-3 gens before the sacrifice is complete.
Yes, braindead people exist, just like braindead killers cant see people who are crouching next to a hook even though they look them straight in the face. Does that mean hiding to a hook guarantees you not being spotted?
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The problem is you only need one or two to be doing that not all four someone needs to interact with a killer at all times to prevent the killer from needing to just sit and watch. If the killer still chooses to sit there when someone wants to do a chase then yes it’s in the wrong depending on circumstance of course.
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Oh look another justify camping thread. A very far reaching one.
We get it you do not have the skill to chase just open with that.
Camp all you want but don't act like you are the bee knees for doing one of the most boring tactics in the game.
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umm did you not read it through it was saying camping is bad on both sides each side has a way to ignore chases and interaction there was no justification in camping I avoid it myself but sometimes nobody wants to interact so what can I do chase birds around?
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Except I do know what a gen rush is. When you ignore lit totems, unhooks, heals, to focus on doing gens. When you split up on the first three, then triple up on the last two.
Gen pressure is a myth, it's impossible to pressure gens against a team that wants to rush and has at least two good loopers.
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1, only 1 person needs to interact with the killer at all times. Sure, you can swap out mid chase to prevent people from being hooked(which is actually an extremely difficult task to pull off and if you are skilled enough to pull it off, its just a dick move. Basically like Iri Head hatchets, Ebony Mori and Tunnel the unhooked person ASAP), but the game is overall more fun and less stressful to play to let 1 person be chased and 3 people doing a 2/1 split on generators(that way its not 3 gens done in 80 seconds. More like, 2.8 gens done in 80 seconds). That way, the killer can still end a chase early, discombobulate the chased person for a few seconds and interrupt the other survivors.
Either that, or be completely unpredictable to scare survivors shitless to the point that they cant know if you're watching them or just waiting around a corner.
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People can't sit on gens if you chase them.
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I watched a chick gen rush so hard she ignored her mend. Seriously. Red ranks. Ended up in the dying state cause she wanted that gen so bad she couldnt be bothered. Ive seen survivors work on gens three feet from mewhile im downing their friend and not bother to stop while im walking towards them. Ive seen survivors work on gens with active rbts on their heads. I saw one dude finish a gen while all three of his teammates are slugged. Yes, the gen rush is real. I dont blame them, if it wasnt so fast and easy to get the W they wouldnt do it. I blame bhvr for not introducing secondary objectives like they should have done 3 years ago
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If there are no lit totems spotted, if someone is freshly hooked, healing overall is useless due to sloppy butcher being so common, Sloppy Butcher forced players to learn to play while never healing in the first place, yeah, you do gens. Thats not a genrush. A genrush requires toolboxes and prove thyself to be a thing.
And no, gen pressure is not a myth, It might be impossible preventing 5 gens from being done, just as it might be impossible for survivors to do a game with no one ever being downed or hooked. But just because 5 gens are impossible, doesnt mean 3 gens, 2 gens and 1 gen is impossible. If survivors were capable of destroying a 3-gen setup before they fixed 3 gens, then you are at fault for lacking pressure. On some maps, you want to stay away from gens that are spread out, to have the gens that spawned close to each other within your reach. It might feel stupid to not go to a certain part of the map and letting people finish gens, but 3-gens situation can literally change the outcome of the match. If you lack genpressure, you gonna lose the gens you didnt pressure. If you "tried" pressuring gens and failed to get a 3-gen situation, then I 100% will bet my life savings that you decided to chase a claudette with a flashlight for 90 seconds without even hitting her. If you cant accept that you're wasting time in a chase, then you deserve people finishing gens. Sometimes you gotta swallow your pride, quit the chase and go back to your patrolling. It, again, might feel stupid to quit a chase early, but it can literally change the outcome of the match. That gen you kicked at 95% and scared the 1 survivor that was there? By the time they return to that gen, it very likely regressed back to 40%. Gen pressure matters.
Basically, there are 3 steps in preventing genrush in the average game:
- try finding the best survivor, chase them away from gens only, dont spend time chasing them into a jungle gym, even if you got a hit on them.(he probably wont heal up anyway and go back to gens, where you can hit him a second time without ever having chased that person)
- try finding the worst survivor, chase them for 30 seconds and get a cheap hook.
- go back to patrolling important gens
- Whenever you hook someone, let people be overly altruistic. Leave them enough room to want to go for the unhook, but small enough room to hit them before they can unhook so you swap out a hooked survivor. Altruism can be the survivors greatest weakness.
- repeat
If the best survivor is within your skill to down them quickly, congrats, you got an easy game and can pretty much ignore patrolling gens, because they will be too altruistic otherwise.
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Oh I didn't realize we got 4 killers in one match now to chase all the survivors. Op is correct, camping is unfun, gen rushing is unfun. Both are doing the objective the game gives you. Kill the survivors, do the gens. Do I agree with either from a "fun for the other side" prospective? Nope. Are both still valid? Yup.
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If all five gens are poping in one chase you got some problems.
If a chase is taking to long break off and apply pressure elsewhere
But what do I know I've only been playing killer for 2 years.
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This guy... I watched 5 gens be done in 4:20 without a prove thyself or toolbox in the game. I read killer for dummies too, I understand the game, I understand what the survivor mains call gen pressure, I know when to abandon chase, I know it all. I also know that it's futile against a team that knows what they're doing.
You're clearly one of these survivor mains that escapes 75% of the time and thinks survivor is weak.
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Difference is that one side is ultimately rewarded for it. Yes, they lose SOME emblem for it, but they still gain progress overall.
Survivors (especially the one on hook) lose EVERYTHING. Let's say that you're the first one found and they probably have either a stealth ability or an instant down. Let's say Ghostface because he's broken and has both. And did this to me last night.
I was first found, and because of his broken stalk, marked me and one-shot me. He then proceded to legit camp me out, then when I got unhooked TARGETED ME even though there were other people who were injured and closer. I died easily and my brother got facecamped next. I walked away with the obligatory bronze Benevolence and that was it. Don't know about the bro. And for what? Because GF didn't want to play the game and cared more about a few skulls? GF probably even ranked up from it.
Best way to stop camping is for a Dev to come out and say "Killing is not 100% of your objective, stop camping and tunnelling you twats." And actually punish killers for not sharing the pain.
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This did not address anything I said, also been playing killer for around 2 years. Time spent playing doesn't matter, it doesn't make you right, so yeah "what do you know" is correct if that's the argument you're using.
No one was talking about chases, but if we want to bring that up, unless you're playing one of the top tier killers, facing potatoes, or in the top 1% of the game, usually the first chase will end with 1-3 gens done because early game is where survivors are at their strongest. Off topic however.
If all 5 gens are popping in one chase, yeah there's probably something going on. Whether its you skill, a killer you don't use or just got, or that you are in brown ranks and for some reason got matched with red-purple ranks.
The point still stands that camping is camping, whether its gens or hooks. If you really want to go after the killers for it, I want to to partially do a gen no more than 33%, then for no reason either move to another one, or let the killer start chasing you. But that's dumb. Again, do I agree with it for the sake of fun? Nope. Do I personally do it? Nope. Do I think it needs to be changed the way the game is right now? Also nope.
Killer camps, do gens, move on. Survivors camp and tunnel gens in every match. Oh well, move on. Unless we're planning to fundamentally change the game and its objectives, this is not going to change.
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Nah, I play both killer and survivor. I escape about 50% of the time due to me being overly altruistic and trying to help other people escape. There are some things about killers that are too strong for this current meta(aka, slugging having 0 vanilla counters and only 1 viable perk that, on paper, is only strong because of the lack of vanilla counters). And yeah, 4 minutes and 20 seconds is relatively a fast game, but its not a genrush.
Fastest times for generators without any perks and toolboxes:
4 man split on 4 gens, final gen being a 4 man gen, killer doing nothing: 2 minutes and 5 seconds(not including distance between generators and not including opening exit gates)
5x 4 man on 1 gen, killer doing nothing: 3 minutes.
1 man being chased and 3 man rush fastest time: 2 minutes 30 seconds
5 minutes for a game simply means that you lacked gen pressure. You probably greeded when you shouldnt and either were too late to acknowledge that or didnt even recognise it and blamed the game instead. Either that, or you had the 1 in 5000 games where you actually faced an optimal 4 man SWF and applied that as the standard for your games, even though realistically, your average game lasts about 8 minutes.
EDIT:
Some quick notes: including prove thyself and toolboxes, the fastest gen speeds are roughly(not accurate, just guessing based on known numbers) 1 minute 40 seconds and 2 minutes 40 seconds with 1 minute 55 seconds for 1 man chased and a 3 man rush.
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Tunneling is often on both sides. It's up to the survivor doing the unhooking to take attention off the survivor they unhooked.
Camping, though? Not really. I've found that killers who camp don't leave the area to chase survivors who show up to be overly altruistic. They'll stay in one area so they can deny the unhook.
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Wasn't greedy, switched targets, forced people off gens, didn't matter. Lol 1 in 5000, I wish. More like 4 out of 10.
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Thats some great nonsense. Survivors do not need any killer interaction to progress in the match. They progress solely on doing gens. Camping is not justifyable during gen phase.
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They really aren't the same thing. It's the killers job to force the interactions. If he/she chases them off gens, then you have the chase you want. If you camp, survivors will/should stay on gens. Camping is what creates the situation you describe.
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Bingo. As a survivor main I point this out every time I see someone complaining about camping. It SHOULD be counterproductive. If survivors played intelligently it would be. Camping is only a good strategy because survivors make it that way.
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Kinda false tho. If the killer does nothing to survivors, survivors will depip. Survivors NEED killer interaction to earn pips. A killer with insidious standing in a corner looking away from the map will force survivors to depip. At least, green+ rank survivors need more than just 2 iridescent. I kinda am voting for Iridescent evader when you never have been chased, which is literally evading the killer, meaning that if the killer finds you once, you get reduced to bronze instantly.
But yeah, if the killer isnt afk and decides to camp, ofcourse gens are gonna be done.
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Uhuh, and, did you record your footage, tried finding out what you did wrong and if you truly were greeding or not? Even Otz says that he made a mistake by chasing a survivor who fully knew how to loop Otz. If you have a survivor that can loop you for what seems to be an eternity, without dropping any pallets during the run, you are being greedy. Switching targets and dropping a chase are different things. And you probably forced them off the wrong gens.
Example: backwater swamp - grim pantry has 2 gens that are very far away from the others: one is in the house, the other tends to be either in the faraway corner or close to a gate. Scaring survivors offf of those gens is a terrible idea, because they are extremely far away from the rest of the gens. Then you have 5 gens that are close to the killershack, and you have 5 potential 3-gens there. Scaring them off the generator in the house while someone else is doing the gen next to the killershack is wasting your time. Heck, if you have the right perks(tinkerer, Pop/Ruin, Surveillance for example), you can even prevent them from doing any gens at all after they did the first 2.
Another example: The Game: you often want survivors to do the gens upstairs, even though downstairs is loopcity, its very easy to patrol generators for the killer downstairs. Preferably, you want 1 gen upstairs and 2 gens downstairs left for the final gen, but The Game allows for up to a 4-gen situation that is incredibly hard to break, let alone that it wont prevent a 3-gen situation, giving survivors 2 extremely hard generator setups that they would need to try and break. If you have all 4 survivors alive at that point, they might make it, but you should be able to kill at least 1 survivor before the final gen needs to be fixed.
Another example you ask? Well, one of the tougher maps for killers to get a 3 gen: Ormund. You basically do not want to walk around the building. You always want to walk through the building. It's just as fast or even faster than walking around and you'd always have pressure on the central gen, which is the only gen that would allow a 3-gen situation. If you let the central gen be popped early, you basically spend too much time being lured away by a survivor. Get your priorities straight. Chasing isnt your number 1 priority. Preventing gens from finishing is a bigger priority that can become your greatest strength. If you have control over which gens are being finished, then you can spend time chasing someone across the entire map.
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Yes, i did record it. No, i wasn't greedy. I made a couple of mistakes, but you can't make a whole lot of mistakes in 4 freaking minutes. The biggest mistake was hitting ready with a player named umbra on the survivor team. I know how to run the maps, I know how to 3 gen.
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Each time you camp one friends megs heads appears from the bushes.
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Then you simply faced a team that was extremely well prepared to face the killer you were playing. That ######### happens, but even then, you cant claim its 1 in 50 games, you've only been talking about 1 specific game over and over again, not even mentioning the other games, meaning that was obviously the worst out of all games you faced.
There might have been 4 other similar to those those in 1 weeks time, granted, and that is an unlucky strike. However. I could claim the same about iri head ebony mori slugfest huntresses. Those are about 1 in 2000 games and I had 4 of them within 2 hours of playing. Would it be okay for me to claim it was 1 in 50 because there were a lot of them on 1 day? Hell no.
Yes, ######### games exist, as humans we react to negativity a lot more than positivity. It is why, in example, its world news for months when 1 massive terrorist attack happens, but not a single news outlet will mention that we're living in the most peaceful era of human history. There are less deaths in the past 5 years than there were deaths in the entirety in 1964. Just as you remember that single 1 game and forgot about the game you had prior to that, which actually might have been a very easy 4k game for you.
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