Imagine a new player coming to the game
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If matchmaking worked properly new killers wouldn't have to face any of the experienced og players so I blame it for bad first impressions. Real new survivors will struggle just as much getting into the game with the reworked maps, removal of pallets (over the course of the years, not the latest patch) and mechanics like pallet vacuum (which made it way easier to get used to survivor gameplay and chases back then), tracking and stealth powers etc.
So basically if matchmaking worked every new player would struggle equally resulting in fair first matches - at least theoretically.
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I would never, ever tell a friend to pick up this game. Quite literally, I would recommend LoL or DotA to a friend before this.
At this point, I keep at it because my wife likes it so much, and because I don't mind the concept at it's core. But there's no version of reality where I tell a friend, "Yes, this will be a good experience for you as a new player, go ahead and jump in."
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I'm trying to relearn nurse on ps4 after not playing her for probably 2 years. I'm using no perks or addons or offerings against tier 3 perked, red rank survivors. i'm trying to get used to the rework nurse...
If i was a brand new nurse, i would just take a money loss and find a new game.
As someone who has played for 2+ years, i know what i'm getting into...but say a new player came in and saw nurse and wanted to learn nurse...
Nurse has the highest skill cap, now add on the current match making...most normal consumers will quit.
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While I don’t agree with everything here I think it makes sense for all characters to have all 4 perk slots unlocked and 1 level of each base perk at level 1 available. You shouldn’t have to grind a few hours at a huge disadvantage in order to have just a basic build.
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The anniversary stream will be a big deal for all players
I like the idea of taking new players into private matches to teach them how the game works but even that has issues
Or having an extra tutorial match with bots/other players
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I made this with that video in mind. Whenever I actually mention his name the posts get no attention because everyone dismisses it because he is very killer bias.
Which he is, but that doesn’t mean his points are completely null.
So doing this without his stigma would let it get more attention, which it did like I predicted
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Poor @SpaceCoconut
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While I don't agree with everything there's certainly some good points here.
Matchmaking is obviously a mess, even though as seen in that video even rank 16 survivors come in with full perk loadouts because they have more time in the game. I guess that's the nature of games with grinding/virtually neverending progression.
There's also a common challenge with any game that has one form of complexity or another. DBD has a lot of "homework" for new players in the form of perks, addons, items, powers and offerings that complicate things for new players. If someone has no clue what's going on something like Decisive Strike or a killer walking straight over to them with some aura reading perk is going to be very confusing for sure.
As someone who has played a lot of TF2 and also introduced other people to the game I know that feeling very well 😄. Even today you see new players get confused or even confuse non-standard items for some sort of cheating, because very few people are gonna sit down and read 150+ weapon descriptions before launching the game. And that game is over a decade old at this point.
I'd personally like some sort of system that highlights perks/addons/offerings/powers a player encounters for the first time in the end-game lobby, as a little hint to "Hey, here's something you haven't encountered before!". While there are pretty wacky perks in the game that do strange things it might help a little and it's more involved than browsing a wiki or checking everything out in a KYF lobby. Sorta similar to how players get loading screen tips related to the killer they're against if they haven't gone against them before.
But unlike matchmaking which is a much more technical thing, it's hard to just "fix" how information is given to new players. Be too heavy-handed with it and it can be a turn-off, but at the moment they're very much encouraged to go looking for answers to their questions on their own with minimal guidance. And they probably don't even know what questions to ask in the first place.
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Got two players into both quit after less than a week. Do I win this stupid argument?
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I think people are missing the point, it’s probably easier for killer now than before to play against similarly skilled players. Red vs red or even purple vs red. Yellow vs yellow.
What we’re saying is matchmaking throws brand new 20 killers against red rank survivors wayyyyyyyy too often, whether they are SWF or not the killer is not going to have a good time.
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I watched the original vod (just the dbd part, don't even know this streamer). Even though he was new to the game, he really pinpointed a lot of frustration that even older players feel.
Things like killers being punished for doing well, all the extra "lives" survivors have, running in circles being dull, really strong loops (the fun bus), the huge grind just to stand a chance, ect. I would say something more pertinent to the survivor side but he really did not have much to say about it (another red flag) and he did mostly play killer. He even camped one survivor on the basis of "I'm not having fun, neither will you". Really shone a light on just some of the issues in the game. Not to mention all the people who CLEARLY did not belong in a game with a new player just straight up bullying him.
The new player experience is very bad. The grind is a HUGE disincentive and it's only getting worse. Besides that matchmaking is a mess and some vague MMR system that we don't even know if it will fix anything. The tutorial does not help much either and can actually be misleading to some players. Then we have most of the community being as toxic as it is to anyone, let alone a new player. Whenever I look around, the majority of players who play DBD say they would not recommend it to anyone who would be starting new, and I'd have to agree at this time.
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For sure, let’s say you see a streamer/YouTube playing Ghostface and that seems cool, then you realize you start with no perks but oh well I’ll just warn them as I learn to play. But wait, there’s more! Most solid GF builds include some combo of Nurses calling and/or pop... I guess at least you get thrilling tremors you don’t need BBQ although you’d like it for the grind
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4 years deep into the most grind intensive sweatfest of a online only game
Yikes to new players.
Good luck getting the perks you need for the meta... whats it now like 12bill to get everyone's teachables 10kmatches(new players loosing often) at a time. Hope they pick a single character from each side and play nothing else and pray that killer doesnt get nerfed
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I agree 100% This is a real turnoff, as survivor you can stick with Meg I guess and have sprint burst and adrenaline at least, then a couple solid generic perks. And no shrine isn’t the answer since they won’t be able to buy those until they have quite a bit of game times.
Our son wants to play but he doesn’t wanna just do generic, he wants to copy some of those builds from streamers... and I would let him play my account but he’d get steamrolled at red ranks while learning and while I don’t agree with participation awards lol that is a bit tough on the psyche
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Same story you had but when I needed to get people into the game I just spent a day deranking.
Not that it matters matchmaking rank20 killer puts you with lvl 10000 survivors
I can get people into survior because its easy and even easier to sfw carry them but I can't convince anyone to play killer after a few rounds of bulling lol
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Learning mechanics and the fundamentals is the least of a new player's concerns. You can jump in and, provided you're going against similarly skilled players, have a good time because nobody know what's going on and it's scary. You can learn everything you need to know about looping etc in 2-3 weeks tops. All it takes is a couple of YouTube videos or streamers and playing the game. As for killer mechanics they're also super easy to pick up, they were intentionally designed to be simple to understand.
It's the grind that's the problem, not the gameplay. It takes hundreds of hours to even unlock all the teachables and that's providing you've bought all the DLC. Three tiers for every perk, there's...what...60 something perks per role? And you have to do this nearly 20 times over to get all the perks on every killer? Not even counting prestige. It's ######### absurd. Nothing has been done about it and it's only going to get worse.
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Feel like once matchmaking gets fixed things will be alot better off for newbies.
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Rank 10-1 does matter very much. I agree with your point in the post though.
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I think you guys are thinking too deep into it.
New players (if they play other games) understand that there is going to be a learning curve. This game unlike other Asymetrical games is mainly about LOOPING and IMMERSING. It takes a bit to understand that because in the beginning it is much easier to want to hide.
The reason I even say that is because even in Red Ranks players still don't understand that. I've seen players from 1k-3k hours doing far less better than the ones at 100 hours. I'm not saying that matchmaking doesn't have it's problems, but I don't think its going to affect a new player if the killer/survivor is already bad to begin with... regardless of their rank.
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I ran the numbers about a year ago I think to get every character P3 all perks it would now take well over 500mil bloodpoints. But I would have to run run the calculations for how many games and how much play time that would be
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I think so too, but I also think that if MM feels good and matches are fair more often than not we're going to see more balancing towards the competitive spectrum.
Less effective perks and killers will be brought up in effectiveness and More effective perks and killers might see some more "softening".
I'm kind of betting on the new MM system being good, if it is, it really might be the start of many more improvements that are highlighted by that system's implementation.
But all we can do is wait and see lol
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Good point, a survivor team if you are really good at looping you can buy them lots of time that alone is huge
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Heres to hopin the new MM system actually works rather than the system thinking 90% of the player population should be all at the highest tier of matchmaking, lol.
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Matchmaking is really awful right now.
As a rank 1 survivor I get rank 20 killers rather often. Out of 10 games, at least HALF will be rank 20, 3-4 will be red rank, and maybe 1 or 2 will be purple/green rank.
As a rank 1 killer all I get are red rank survivors, however every once in a while a rank 15 or lower sneaks into my game. It makes me feel bad because I would totally give these guys hatch if I knew beforehand (sometimes I could tell by the way they played and would do that). One game I played Clown with Infectious and offered Hawkins. My goal was to basically farm for the screaming challenge, but I wasn't going to explicitly farm. I don't play Clown so I was ready for a depip which I would have been fine with if I got my challenge. I got 2 yellow ranks and a rank 20 (like fresh out of tutorial rank 20) and 1 red rank Claudette. I tunneled the Claud because she made a very good effort to get my attention and teabag at each pallet, but then I just ended up farming with the other 3. They didn't KNOW we were farming, I would just chase them and toss bottles, hit them, maybe down them if I knew the others were around, and leave them. Took 1 hook on each, got Brutal after they all left. Literally had to carry the rank 20 to the hatch because she was too terrified to find the gate.
I also have 2 alt accounts. One is for playing green ranks as survivor where I don't do gens I just try to get chased by the killer and meme around, and where I play Huntress/Nurse pretty much exclusively for practice (hovering around purple ranks). The other account is rank 16 survivor and rank 20 killer, I have it to play with the handful of friends I have that DO NOT play the game at all regularly. As killer I don't even hook survivors I just carry them around until they wiggle off and basically farm BP while giving them scares and being silly. I let them all go. As survivor I just don't care what happens, but if the killer is tunneling/camping I go out of my way to take the death for the team so they can get out.
Anyway, I went on the second account recently (rank 20 killer) just to see what it's like for them right now. I played 2 games, first was against a full rank 1 SWF (people I knew too) and I almost got a 2k with perkless Oni on Game. Had the one doorway not been blocked I woulda had a 2k, but since it was and I couldn't get to the hooks they all got out. I don't really care though I was expecting it, I did a lot better than I thought. Second game was as you expect for a rank 20 killer, all yellow/brown rank survivors. One DC'd after I caught her even though she wasn't caught first and she saw that I wasn't hooking people. Let the others go but wow they took FOREVER to do gens.
So yea, the rank 20 experience, particularly as killer, is just awful right now. No rank 20 should have to go against red ranks. My group tends to be very nice to these killers when we think they are rank 20, but I'm sure that's not the norm. Most red rank SWF's probably bully the absolute crap out of these killers. And yea a few rank 20's have DC'd on us because they couldn't catch us, but it's not our fault. By the time we realize the guy is probably rank 20 it's too late.
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Yeppppppp. Lord knows I've written about it at length on these forums in the past, but the Sisyphean perk grind is just insane. You have to put in a ton of work just to be able to play the game at an acceptable level of "normalcy" with regard to your loadout options.
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What you are describing here is UI and UX, and it seems like Behaviour is terminally asleep at the wheel here. This is such a crucial, important part of any game when it comes to player education and retention, and I've never seen any developer get it so wrong. It's like a total afterthought at best. They need to have a designer whose entire job revolves around this.
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Lvl 41 for the teachables across 12 characters takes about 2mil each 24mil
Take about 5k/20k for a loss/win newbie. Figure about a more then generous 12k a game average and your looking at about 2000 matches to get perks unlocked
You need a few more mil for a single character you want to then over lvl your web to accually get those unlocks on one single character so you can do builds and explore getting good.
Do that for both sides lol
Survior que is like 10mintues for me Swf matches meaning you always wait to the end every time for your freinds death or no and your looking at 10-20 minutes a match so figure 25min per match from ready up to ready up next match your talking 830 hours wowza
I'm starting to think I've played too much
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Going with the most standard basic ghostface build i can think of. There is whispers, sloppy, two free perks, than pop or corrupt invervention, with the final one being bbq. So you will need at least two teachable perks from other killers. Three if you want to replace whispers with nurse's calling.
That right there would be at least 2 million blood points, if not a bit more, just to unlock the teachables from other killers. If you go with a build that has only 2 teachable perks. If you want nurses, just throw another million or so blood points on top of that. If you go with fungoose no add on build for ghostface. You got Corrupt, the one legion perk that lets you know if survivors are doing gens with friends, sloppy and pop. Which would still be around 3 million or so blood points, just to unlock the teachable perks. Not counting all the blood points you would need to spend to get them on ghostface.
Of course ghostface does thankfully have mostly good starting perks. Since thrilling could possibly be used as a replacement for bbq, since it does block gens and lets you know which ones they are working on and which ones they are not working on. I'm all ears, can possibly give you an edge, by letting you know just what the survivor is doing. Allowing you to see like a god at mind games. So that could also work as a tracking perk. Sloppy would be your go to slow down perk, only need tier one for sloppy main effect. Yet i honestly can't think of anything that could replace pop or corrupt, that wouldn't lead to you having to spend at least a million blood points or more to get it. So if we go with a build of sloppy, thrilling and i'm all ears, with the fourth being say pop or corrupt. That is still a fair number of blood points for a new player, who simply just wants to play ghostface while having a decent build.
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I’m a very new player (only started this week) and I like the game a lot. The playable tutorials were okay, but there really needs to be better tutorials on how to use perks and items etc as I got totally confused by the loadout screen at first. I still don’t understand all the perks.
Other first impressions are that some people in chat are fantastic - helpful and encouraging when they see that you’re new. Others (usually killers) can be snarky. That’s the same in any game though I suppose.
I prefer playing survivor over killer at the moment as wait times for matches as killer are insane.
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As a new player, this game is really hard to enjoy .
As a new player , you will give up fast . Why ? The matchmaking .
Tell me how can i enjoy this game , with no perks , trying to escape a lvl 7 killer full of impressiv perks ? Killed after the second catch .. . nice let's wait another 10min in the lobby ... why would i wait again 10 min for a game in witch i will be rekt again ?
Did they thought about the skillcap ? My newbie skill is not the same as that high level dude: The new guy just tries his best with nothing while those skilled players have their knowledge and all those things they have already collected. It's not fair . Sometimes during the game , i ask myself how the killer is such a genious.... then i read the perks at the end of the game and i tell myself that with such tools its really easy for him to find my lvl 8 Meg.
Something must be done about that matchmaking. New players are lambs for skilled players . And most of them seems to be frustrated guys who just need to tea bag you or say " wow ez " ... Sure it's ez while as new player , i just try to figure out how to play . I don t have that impressiv build and i will not farm it because it's not fun to wait 10min in a lobby for a 5min game.
You can tell me that's the game ..sure but if there is a lack of players who stay after they bought the game , there must be some reason. And the reason is simple : actually , be a new player on this game is too hard because the matchmaking does not bring you some fair context to discover it.
If nothing is done , this game , that has great things in it.
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