Unfair
So let me get this straight. First of all, I’ve been seeing often Red rank and Rank 1 killers that camp and tunnel hooks? How effective is this system where killers lose rank or BP for staying next to a hook the whole game? Clearly not effective enough if these proxy camping, tunneling killers are red rank still. Yet survivors lose rank over this? How is this their fault? Why does the camped/tunneled survivor gain so little BP and get de-ranked for something they had no control over?
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Maybe they don't do it because they want to rank, but to tilt, as they might be tired of tryharding (It is actually really hard to maintain R1 and R2 by itself, never mind camping). It has clearly worked on you. XD
And survivors that feed campers by lingering around hooks don't help your situation either.
Not justifying it in the slightest, just maybe trying to explain it to you, as the one playing against it.
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is a 4 v 1 thats why, sometimes u are lucky sometimes u are not, sometimes u wont even see the killer hole match sometimes u will get tunneled is how it is. the only problem i have is when leatherface face camp because that has 0 counterplay, even agiasnt billy there is "kinda" counterplay cause he can only get one at time not the hole team + tantrum for extra time. that could be adressed, not the rest.
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One important thing to understand is that proxy camping isn't real. It's something survivors invented, along with gen/hatch camping, to try to take a good tactic (monitoring the route to the hook and beginning a chase with the first rescuer/slapping them for an easy injure) and make it seem shameful.
Camping within about 8-16 meters of the hook is pointless. You lose visibility and survivors - solos and SWFs alike - feel super safe when they know what you're doing. Camping within 24-32 meters of the hook can be a great idea and often wins games, it is strategically sound. I'm not saying you're not experiencing true camping/face camping (camping within about 16 meters or even 4-5 meters of the hook with bubba) but a killer "proxy camping" is actually just exacting a strategic price if you want to unhook your friend, proxy camping isn't real.
Tunnelling works at all ranks because which surv you go after is about an analysis:
Do I know where the survivor is?
Do I know no one has DS?
Do I know that I was stealthed so the person doesn't have BT? Is one injrued and the other healthy? If the running surv does have BT, can I force a vault into a grab (if no DS)? etc. Tunnelling as in making BAD target selections, does get you de-ranked, because you get DSed or hit BT or otherwise waste your time.
But the answer is that there is nodisincentive to proxy camp (camping at 16+ meters away), because the devs think it's often a GOOD strategy to watch the hook from a distance while doing other things, and as a red-rank-every-season killer, they're right. Being closer than about 16 meters, is a bad idea. Tunnelling, as defined by survivors (going after the same person twice in a row, possibly 3 times in a row) is a choice that is sometimes mandatory because the sooner you get from 4 survs to 3, the sooner you can relax.
If you think of it, killers who want to be rank 1 have a lot of objectives. They have to hook you but they ALSO have to apply enough pressure and get enough breathing room to injure you lots, chase you a long time, and keep you from doing gens too quick/opening exit gates. So the objective of killing 1 surv and putting the others on 1-2 hooks AFTER that, can enable them to have more chases, dole out more hits, and to slow down gens (this is also why slugging works, slugging directly raises the gatekeeper score by slowing 2 people while you chase a third, and often results in complimentary hits into malicious/chase. When a killer is chasing you around a downed friend? They are raising their gatekeeper, chaser, and malicious emblems all at once)
So, in light of RANKING, slugging, "proxy camping" and tunnelling, are all actually incentivized by the emblem system, heavily, and by design.
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I mean, to be fair, the survivor got caught. If you're a decent survivor who can loop worth a damn, it's completely possible to avoid getting caught.
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I believe you’re referring to the old infinite loop system. No it’s not possible to avoid getting caught. You can’t loop the killer forever. Maybe in the green and yellow ranks. But red rank killers aren’t new to your mind games lmao. Cmon be realistic. but even running the killer isn’t enough to get you a pip. You lose rank because that’s all you did. That’s not your fault. You could run flawlessly the killer will get you eventually. The game is not built like that. So when he does, you’re not allowed to play anymore? Okay. Well, I lose rank too? That’s complete nonsense. There should be something in place to protect peoples rank who are bound to the hook until the die. Black pip at least.
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You believe wrong. I'm referring to now. It is PERFECTLY reasonable to believe a survivor can be good enough to avoid ever being caught. Is it 100% viable? No. Some killers will straight up be better than you, and if they are, they deserve the W. Regardless.
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Well this isn't quite right either. By design any one survivor can be caught in an average of 30-45 seconds against a competent killer. Not top 1 percent, but a survivor who isn't caught flat footed will be able to run you for 30-45 seconds from full health to down. An injured survivor it might be quite a bit less.
I can conjure the wireframe of every map configuration I've seen, into my head, and I can only think of a very few situations where a competent killer (not top 1 percent, just competent) can't get you. If a killer has to chase you for 1.5 minutes to catch you, solo, alone, they have already lost the game entirely. If you are aware of a situation where a competent killer who is intent on catching them (not top tier, just even merely competent) can be run around for more than about 45 seconds without some kind of exploit, then that's impressive and surprising.
Now 45 seconds is enough for 1.5 gens to be done, so it's still not ideal, but the game is designed around survivors going down after about 30-45 seconds, and in the new fixed maps, this is borne out (given you need 9+ hook actions to even have a hope of ranking up in red ranks)
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It is right, actually. Anyone CAN be caught. It's also possible to run the killer for 5 gens. By design, any survivor can do this.
See? I can use the same argument, and it's just as valid.
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It is certainly not by design that a survivor can "run" the killer for 5 gens. Be lost from them, sure, but that's only if the killer loses sight. It's... really not valid. I mean, I don't know what region and killers you're going against, but I can't think of a single streamer, for example, I've seen get run for 5 gens. I can't think of a single red rank surv in a game vs. a red rank killer (so say rank 4+) who loops anyone for 5 gens since the last update, and I've looked.
I mean, I'm not super invested in you being right, but you might want to look into it more.
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You will get caught by design, so you can't run forever, I agree. But if the killer just camps you then your team should be able to escape and if you play SWF then even more so.
What other punishent do you want for campers? Do you want McCote to come to their house and kick them in the shin? Camping killers lose pips and BPs. And if the killer is red rank most likely he doesn't camp too much. You can't get to red ranks just by camping. If it annoys you so much just play SWF.
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"And survivors that feed campers by lingering around hooks don't help your situation either."
THAT! As a killer (trying to main) it's frickin' obvious that if I hook one of you teammates and I see THREE of you close the hook, I'm going AFTER you, who insist in being close to the frickin' hook. It's not camping if I have 4 dumbass in the same area (believe me, that's common). I usually hook someone and go do gen patrolls or chase another one, but If the survivors are overly altruistic it's only natural that the killer will punish this playstile someway.
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This
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Camping killers just look for easy wins🤗
Do Gens and get out
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I've noticed a lot of people just assume that their own unlucky game was the killer deliberately camping and/or tunelling. Don't get me wrong, they exist, but even then it's about as punished as rushing the gens (yeah, I know, doing the objectives is not a toxic playstyle - but you don't get a lot of BP OR pip points for prioritising gens, so why do half of my matches take 5 minutes til the gates are powered?)
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One thing I've noticed is that ppl who often complain about being tunneled arnt doing anything to help themselves. Just played a match where I found a Nea out in the open as Bubba...So sawed her down and went to leave. She got instasaved about 2 seconds after i turned around, so figured id go for her rescuer or at least get a pallet real quick. Got the pallet, only to realize this Nea went straight back to the same gen I caught her at the first time, only this time injured. If the killer is in the area and youve been given the chance to...run to a safer location. I figured ok...she must have DS and thats why she's playing stupid. I went ahead and downed her expecting to eat her DS (I had nemesis+pwyf on, so eating a DS to get a PWYF stack isnt a bad trade). NOPE, no DS on the Nea. Its often times survivors doing dumb moves like this though where they stick around unsafe locations out in the open away from pallets that they'll often times shame the killer for hitting an easy target.
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That 30 to 45 seconds is the problem and precisley why proxy camping can often be necessary. 1 person can do all 5 gens by themselves in 7 minutes. 2 people cut that almost in half. The killer doesnt have time to chase every survivor 30 to 45 secs 3 times. Its impossible. The gens will be done and survivors gone well before you finish
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