Just got curbstomped by a 4 man... Again.
This game is not fun for the killer against 4 man SWF groups. its just not.
Please, Please, Please, Please, Please, Please, Please, Please, Please, give me some kinda of way to identify this so I can not play against them, either as an opt out. I'll even eat the DC penalty, I don't mind. Just let me know. You shouldn't be forcing me to play the game when the other team has a bonus advantage through Comms.
Nerf them, Buff killers, give us bonus BP, something. Its just not worth playing against them.
At the very least give me a free always on Ebony Mori. I mean, that would ruin their fun a little, just as they ruin mine. Fair, right?
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They're not common to go against, as much as many don't like going against them, they need to understand that they're trying to have fun. Many claim that they're out there to "ruin" people's fun, that may apply to some, but the most I gone against were good sports. Knowing pregame if they are a 4 man and choose to dodge, will create even longer queues. That's the last thing we want.
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They might want to have fun, but they also have an unfair advantage.
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I think if we could op-out of being matched against SWF...that would certainly be the end of SWF 😄
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They ARE extremely common. I don't know why the devs claim they're not, just keep track of your matches as killer and count how many were 4-man friend groups. It's far higher than 5% or whatever they claimed.
That said, there's not much you can do. Optimal survivor play destroys optimal killer play, that's just how it is. Is every 4-man this way? No, some friend groups are potatoes. But they still have a massive communication advantage in a game that's built around limited information.
Meanwhile, everyone still insists that a reasonable FoV or sounds that work right for killers would be insaaaaaaaane because it's too much information.
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how did you know they were a 4 man?
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Coms are out of the game's control.
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Sure, but allowing people to queue as a group isn't.
The game wasn't built with that mind, but they made the change because it was economically advantageous, not because it made sense within the gameplay. So that's what we have now.
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Pick your best Killer and hoard all of the mori's and red add-ons that you can. Every time you get a feeling that they're a swf, use them. They get the unfair advantage of communication, take advantage of one down mori's. Don't play nice, don't show mercy and tunnel the weakest link. They always have one, find them and get them out of the game asap. If you have to proxy camp, do it. Don't ever let them bait you into a long chase.
Hopefully the Devs would start balancing the game around higher ranks once they release their matchmaking rework is released.
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See, I take the opposite approach now. I just play killer with no perks, addons, or offerings.
Surprisingly, not a lot changes. I'll still beat pugs and bad groups, and still lose to good SWF. But at least now I have the option select of, "Yeah, but look at my build." 😎
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Not every 2-4 man is on Comms, not every 2-4 man is a coordinated "bully" squad. The reason why SWFs are so strong is that they remove the unknown factor. For Pub survivor teams they have to understand how to work with each other, understand what the other is planning as well as work out some rudimentary communication. SWFs know what hte other side plays like, may have some roles planned out, etc
What you may see as bullying is just a few friends working together to help each other, its honestly what gives them the edge. As a killer you have to learn how to counteract this take advantage of their teamwork, find the weakest link, understand their game-style and throw a monkey wrench in it. Punishing people for wanting to play with friends by dropping a permanent mori on them is ridiculous. The genuine bad tryhards will just keep lobby requeuing over and over again until they get in the same lobby. But for most survivor teams they will either lose interest or stop playing altogether.
I do agree that there should be some allowances given to the killer, because we do need some. Such as priority for map offerings, a more advantageous spawn location, extra BP like you said, etc. Changing the way the game is played is not the way, bending it however is
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I've decided I'm not going to play this game with two of my best friends during quarantine, to placate your feelings :'(
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Imagine thinking communication and playing with friends is "unfair"
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Why would the Devs lie about the percentage of 4-Man SWFs? That makes no sense. If the Devs didn't want to give you information, they wouldn't give you information. (The Devs already don't give us hardly information to begin with). However, there's no reason to just flat out lie to everyone, especial when people could literally count their matches and call them out on the lie. That would require PR damage management at that point.
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No one gives a crap who you play with.
All I want is for SWF groups to stop pretending it's not an advantage.
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it isn't
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Most 4 man swf teams are fine. I've really only ever had a problem against 4 man swf groups running OoO.
A lot of swf groups are just people trying to play with friends and you often see pretty big skill disparity between them. They also tend to be a lot more altruistic.
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Developers are well known for giving out stats that are slightly ambiguous or...questionable. (See: The perk stats that divided by 16 slots, not 4 players)
It's not uncommon in game development to play damage control by dropping bits of info that are open to interpretation or somehow not the full story. They know that 95% of people will just take it as gospel and the 5% that bother looking won't be loud enough anyway.
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Wait a minute, aren't you Dammitben on Steam? Swear I played you last night. 🤔
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this, my friends save me and vice versa when it is the dumbest idea just because its fun. I play both killer and survivor and seem to have balanced outcomes to games. you win some you lose some
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Yeah, that's what everyone says.
"Haha, we just, you know, goof around with friends and uh...you know, we're not really trying...no one is talking in Discord, honest. We never communicate! We just giggle a lot over our mics and it's not helpful at all. We promise! Scouts Honor!"
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So i should turn off discord when i play this with my friends?
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If you really hate people trying to enjoy a game with their friends so much. Just dodge every swf lobby you encounter.
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Who said that? Did anyone say that?
No, you're just trying to be a smartass so you can keep from just admitting that communication is a massive boon.
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Just stop playing the game, more like
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As someone who only plays SWF, he's 100% right.
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here's a novel idea, assume everyone is SWF and maybe you'll play better and anticipate their decisions more. I do that anytime i play as killer.
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I mostly play solo survivor when I play survivor.
I also play a lot of killer and face plenty of swf groups due to matchmaking using the highest swf member rank.
SWF teams are not unbeatable and most are not try hard groups.
Post edited by Rizzo on4 -
I get a good swf every like 15 games, and everygame that's not agaisnt a swf is a 4k for me
Swf is fine imo
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Never said I did, I'm just enjoying watching you and Crow inexplicably dodge the point over and over.
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what point, that its unfair for me to say "uh the killer is going left towards, uhh that tree that looks like every other tree and towards the aura that looks like every other aura." I really dont get what you want here, comms hardly even give you that much of an advantage. The most it does is to tell people "work on gens while im in phase 1," or "the killers occupied, come unhook me."
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Hey, at least we're making progress here. Little by little!
(Also, if you can't communicate effectively, that's on you.)
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Me and my friends have fun and try to win, and two of them are new to the game. I'm tempted to come here and complain when a killer i dont like to face like doctor 4k's us but i dont because i know i should learn to counter better or work more efficiently. There's challenge on both sides my dude
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I never said anything about challenge or killers or countering anything.
I said that communicating is an advantage. That's all this entire line of conversation has been about.
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marginally, because a good killer can get 2-4k if they anticipate, stay unpredictable and learn how to prioritize actions
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Not addressing an issue just because only a small portion of the community has to deal with it is NOT a reason to ignore SWF and the massive balance issues it has.
This game was DESIGNED AROUND SOLO PLAY. I do not want SWF to be removed, I just it to be on par with solo survivors at least a little bit. Nothing in this game is more unfun (except Nurse with bug fest) than 4 people trying to actively bully you. Shouldn't be possible.
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I guess you need to improve then.
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Swf is fine as it is. If anything, I find overly altruistic swfs make playing killer easier because they willingly sacrifice themselves trying to go for flashlight saves, pallet stuns (if their buddy is in a pallet), and so on. It was stated before, but why should survivors be punished for playing with friends? It's not like dbd has in-game chat similar to F13, and even with comms good killers still gonna 4k often. Heck, I am still getting 4ks with piggy.
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Or you could try getting better at the game
I'm pretty sure you would have lost to that same team even if they weren't communicating.
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So this is about bullying then? If it were designed around solo play they would have never included the option to add friends. Complaining about a group play feature when discord has been around for a long time is just idiotic. Always assume the survivors are communicating, if you actually play with friends in comms it will make you a better killer because you can anticipate what their priorities are at any given time.
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The "not common" side of it used to be true, but not so anymore. The game has gotten so bad for solo survivors that it has either pushed players out, or into Discord groups. It used to be that I'd face an SWF once every 20 matches. Now, I face nearly half my matches vs SWFs. It is what it is. The game left the solo survivor behind.
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At this point they've made is such a chore to filter the SWF groups out I only ever dodge if I see a clearly toxic 4 man flashlight group or a bunch of legacy clothes. (not risking a hacker for even more fun)
I agree the game should be balanced around 4 survivors communicating. It's clearly what the community likes best about survivor. With that in mind, we should strive to balance it so there aren't 2 different gamemodes for survivors but only 1 for killers. (Let's be honest, the gap in skill between solo and SWF accounts for an entirely different gamemode)
But right now it's not. Things are not designed around 24/7 open communication, and perks are still easily abuse-able with 4 copies on all survivors, let alone all the 'tech' that only SWF can do.
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I dont have much problems rolling solo besides the occasional matchmaking hiccup where i get paired as a level 6 with a level 16+ and theyre still learning the game. I occasionally get toxic duos but even then thats probably one in 50 games or something. Everyone here seems to complain about things that affect basically every multiplayer game in existence.
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"Pro" SWFs are a small percentage of a small percentage, and the game should absolutely not be balanced around them. Most SWFs are not remotely optimal, and even most of the ones that strive to be optimal are beatable with good killers by good killers.
Yes, if you get actual pro style SWFs, you'll struggle to get hooks with any killer other than Spirit or Nurse. But there are probably 30 teams max out there that play that way on PC.
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No, Killers only lose when they play against SWF! Every Killer on this Forum is really skilled and plays flawless.
Its only because of SWF they lose! Its SWFs fault that they chase a Survivor for 4 Gens, because he told his Teammates that they should do Gens. Solos would never come to the conclusion to do Gens when not being chased.
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No one said any of that, though.
Communication and coordination is an advantage. That's literally all I said, and all that has been argued about for half a page now.
The fact that people will argue even that simple of a point is telling of how jaded people get.
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this
Maybe embrace tough strings of games as ways to improve your overall play. I don't assume every teabagging 4 escape games i encounter are some bully squad, i usually assume that i played badly and they played well. At this point I think they should just have separate servers where people can basically press a win button on both sides so you can get the experience you actually want.
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But coming up with "got stomped by a 4 man" is dumb. Sorry, being a 4 man SWF will most likely not be the reason why he lost. He lost because they were better.
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so this is about decisive strike?
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Does an advantage not cause you to be "better" in this context?
So many times in these threads it feels like people want to have the fastest car, but then claim that it would never help them win a race.
I don't fault people for wanting every advantage they can reasonably get, but when they consistently deny that they're doing so it's just mind-boggling. I mean, you don't see me running a perk and then saying, "Pft, well, it doesn't do anything!"
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