How to punish survivors for unsafe hooks?
before DS rework, survivors had to be careful when to safely unhook a survivor. Failure to plan accordingly would result in farming your teammates and send him/her to the second entity phase quickly.
But the current system of DS, survivors can take their time finish whatever they are doing without having to worry about the killer presence.
Trading hooks is bad for the killer. Survivors now abuse this technique by finishing the generators first before unhooking their teammates. It doesn’t matter if it was a safe hook or not, the generator is finished and the unhooked survivor would be granted immunity for 60 seconds ( DS and Unbreakable).
Comments
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- Have "unsafe" mean that a survivor was hit by the killer shortly after being unhooked. No more using BT to pretend it was a safe unhook.
- Injure the unhooker when the unhooked survivor is unsafely unhooked. If the unhooked was already injured, put 'em in the dying state.
This would virtually eliminate unsafe unhooks. As a bonus, it'd also make survivors stop trying to unhook when killers are camping, so they'd use the actual counter (working on gens) and we'd see a decrease in camping as well.
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Easy borrowed time.
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"But the current system of DS, survivors can take their time finish whatever they are doing without having to worry about the killer presence."
Before Laurie was even released, survivors did gens before unhooking their teammate. People rather spend 59 second on hook and being unhooked with 2 gens being finished than spending 5 seconds on a hook with all 3 survivors swarming around, having done nothing and essentially wasting your sacrifice, especially if the killer is overly focussed on people being unhooked(camping, tunneling, or simply being too afraid to move too far away from the hook). Having 3 survivors with practically free reign is the killers fault, not the survivors. If a survivor can finish a gen before they can safe and still has an unsafe unhook, it basically means you've been either proxy-camping or just straight up camping and got punished for that.
Let alone that when Laurie was released, DS was permanent, no cooldowns.
You're basically asking "give me a way so I can camp without survivors being able to do gens". At least, thats what it feels like.
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If the unhook was unsafe, the unhooker gets "Exposed" and their safety perks deactivate (DS, Unbreakable, Deliverence, Second Wind, MoM, etc.). It would have to be a complicated system that takes into account both the survivors distance from the hook, the killers distance from the hook, if chase was initiated, or the killer was facecamping, but in general it would be nice for survivor teams to not get rewarded by having 2 people bum rush the hooks with 4 layers of protection to buy gen time.
It would be extra nice if the farmee got some form of compensation for their bad teammate if they were solo que. Maybe even a free unbreakable but with slower recovery speed, so that the killer can slug but not full-on snowball and has to accept their two hooks or let the poor farmee get up.
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Before Laurie was released Killers couldn't even kick generators at all to regress them at the time, bloodlust didn't exist, the entity blocker didn't exist, map design was absolutely atrocious with incredibly strong loops existing all over every single map, perks like pre-nerfed Hex: Ruin didn't exist (that would come in the next chapter) or BBQ and Chili which wouldn't come for another year, etc.
You have to keep in mind that The Halloween Chapter was the second chapter they ever released all the way back on October 25, 2016, the game was only a few months old at the time after it released in June of 2016. It's possible my timeline is skewed and a few of those changes I mentioned had actually made it into the game by that point at the time (I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of patch history) but regardless this was extremely early in the history of DBD. So there were a LOT more issues with the game beyond the specific scenario being discussed here (DS and unsafe unhooks) so I wouldn't exactly call it a reliable time to glean information about balance or comparison of anything.
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You cant nerf unsafe unhooking without indirectly buffing face camping and end game camping scenarios, and for that reason i dont think theres anything that can be done
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This absolutely undoable at endgame scenarios whereas someone is being camped by a killer once the gates are almost open/open @ the second suggestion.
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Yeah, but my point was that survivors would still finish their gens. It's not DS that makes survivors finish gens before unhooking.
As for the rest, yeah, but the vast majority of players didnt even know they could do infinites. I played killer back then too, and only about 1 person per 5 matches would know the infinites. I was a red rank survivor in those days too(red rank was incredibly easy to get for both sides too), and by the time I got to know where infinites were, a lot of windows got blocked. Some of which I still kinda disagree with nowadays, I wish they would change some permablocked windows for other open windows. Not because they are weak, but because windows are practically static nowadays, and thats kinda boring. The only RNG that influences loops nowadays is Pallet RNG. I wish they added more locations where it could be 1 of 3 states: Window, Doorway, Blocked Window.
But going back to why my point still stands: DS never made it easier for survivors to finish up a gen before unhooking someone, neither does BT. That has always been in the game. Doing nothing while someone is hooked is bad. Heck, I even used to know exactly how much I could fix a generator before I needed to run to the hooked survivor to prevent him/her from going into second stage. I can still guesstimate it today, but I dont really care too much about fixing a gen as fast as possible as I used to back then unless the killer is camping. Because back then, Ebony Mori's were given almost every single bloodweb, and they were OP as #########, especially that the Halloween chapter made it worse by introducing Dying Light, not only making matches extremely short, but survivors were punished for not rushing.
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If you injure a survivor before they can unhook, you recharge your attack fast enough to hit them a second time before they are able to move again, downing the unhooking survivor in the first place. Many people go in, knowing full well they might just end up switching out hooks. Besides, technically, you could use Dead Hard during that period to dodge the damage. Making it fully rely on skill.
It's not that bad, and it would actually prevent players from farming people on the hook, because what did the person on the hook do wrong to be hooked twice in a row because someone else made the mistake? A mistake that you have no counter play to. If a survivor is leading a killer to you, at least you have time to get out of sight. If a survivor missed a skill check on the generator you work on, you have time to get out of sight. If the survivor misses a skillcheck while healing you, you have the option to run away to safety before the killer decides to check on why he got a notification. But when unhooked? You cant do ######### in that situation. You could say its your fault for being downed in the first place, but the hook is the punishment for being downed. Not the unhook.
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I think you need to slug more. Surrounding a hook with slugged bodies is a great way to generate pressure. Slug the unsafe unhook and go for the unhooker, bonus points if STBFL is on your perk list. Hook the unhooker and proxy camp or outright facecamp both. At best one survivor is on gens though more likely both will have to come if they don't want a serious loss. One of the reasons I'm so worried about soulgaurd.
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Infinites as most people knew them didnt quite exist uet, what we had was the ability to spam windows and vaults with no counter. Hop thrkugh window, killer would hop through, you run around to the other side and do it again. If the killer turned around to cut you off, you double back and sat by the window. I had a game, 4 survivors spam jumping through windows woth no way to stop them. I dropped the game fore nearly 2 years
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Oh they existed. Perhaps not to the extend of Haddonfield on release, but they existed. You could literally go from one side of the killer shack to the other side faster than the killer could walk around. They werent really used, but they existed.
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I don't really get your logic...unless you are only speaking to SWF teams. Otherwise, you have no way of knowing if your teammate has DS and UB, so there is still a high likelihood that you're farming your teammate if you're not running BT and you're going in for an unsafe off-hook. That's no different.
I will agree tho - gens before friends. If I am close to finishing a gen, especially if its the last gen, I am not going to leave it to unhook someone at the very beginning of their hook stage. Why would you?
Trading hooks is in no way bad for the Killer. Killers absolutely love hook trades...even better if it can turn into a tunnel and a down...2 hooks for the price of one. So this also makes no sense.
DS grants absolutely no immunity. It grants a 5 second stun. If a killer chooses not to touch a survivor for 60 seconds because they're scared of a 5 second stun, that's their choice.
EDIT: this is not to say that survivors don't act like idiots and off-hook unsafely all the time. They do. I dont think it has anything to do with their assumption about your perk setup. I think they are just either hungry for off-hook pts or not very good at altruism. It would be nice if you could kick a survivor away when they're going in for an unsafe off hook. LOL
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