Question for the Devs: Key/Mori Emblem Disparity
Keys help the Survivors win. Mori's help Killer's kill Survivors, but they actually cause the Killer to lose.
It's incredibly unbalanced because Survivors are rewarded for bringing a key which allows them to bypass the objective of the game (doing generators) and encourages them to let one or more of their number die (because that's the requirements for Hatch spawn), and then they're rewarded by getting the same Emblem bonus as if they had escaped through the exit gate.
Killers, on the other hand, are punished for using a Mori because it robs them of their Devout Emblem.
Furthermore: Keys can be found randomly in chests. They can also be protected from loss by addons (Weaved Ring & Milky Glass) and with offerings (White Ward), while a Mori is an Offering and so is guaranteed to be destroyed after use.
Now personally, I would be fine with removing both of these objects from the game. I hate getting Mori'd three minutes into the game because it encourages the Killer to tunnel. And I equally think that Keys are just busted. If you're going to have them though, why is the disparity between rewards given to Survivors who escape via Key and Killers who win via Mori so massive?
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as a legacy wraith main, i can truly agree on mori's, i usually try to double hook everyone (even tunnel, idc about salt in postchat lmao) AND then mori ppl
imo it would be better if you would have to double hook to be able to mori. (last survivor? don't care, insta mori any hook state)
keys are....idk, a map wide audio cue (to everyone in the game), a SUPER OBVIOUS noise indicator to the killer and a 5/10/15/20 second timer to unlock the hatch would probably balance it?
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Re: the mori. I'd be fine with being able to autokill, say, the last survivor on the map, since with the changes to hook timers for the final survivor they'll just auto-die on the hook anyway. As for keys, that makes them borderline useless, but that's not really my point.
My point was that, IF the devs insist on keep these factors in the game, then why is the Survivor rewarded and the Killer punished via the Emblem system?
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I get what you're saying, but balancing isn't really the point of my question. My question is this:
Let us assume that the Devs want to keep the Mori and Key exactly how they are. Let us assume the Devs are not going to change anything about these items/offerings.
Assuming those postulates are true: why is the Survivor rewarded for using a Key and the Killer is punished for using a Mori?
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because mori is cheap, just (whatever bp) in the bloodweb and takes you only 1 hook ;P
and keys...... hm......
you can sit in a ######### locker, let everyone die, and run around the map searching for it EZ GG
good job mods removing the thread for a good minute
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wouldnt there be a disparity because of the different goals the key and Mori have.
Key: Helps survivors escape which is literally their objective
Mori: Allows the killer to kill the survivor without sacrificing them. While the killers objective is to kill survivors it’s rewarded by sacrificing them to the entity rather than straight up murdering them because then the entity gets cranky
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Let me put it this way: If you're defining the Survivors ultimate objective as 'Escaping' then it is equally valid to described the Killer's ultimate objective as 'Killing all 4 Survivors'.
Think of it like this now: Survivors have to finish multiple generators to open the exit gate and get out in the same way that a Killer has to hook a survivor multiple times to get the payoff of their Devout Emblem.
Keys allow a survivor to Bypass whole generators and the process of opening the Exit Gate with a single click of the mouse button once the Hatch has spawned in the exact same way that a Killer is able to Bypass hook stages via their Mori.
These two mechanics are, functionally, not as different as you seem to believe.
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Thats a major reach to explain this away. Tge entity isnt real. The devs made a choice. Maybe it was an oversight, maybe it was intentional, either way its a bad call
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ok them give us a sacrificing Mori.
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A Mori that speeds up the Sacrifice timer is actually an interesting idea. Maybe a Mori could instead create a number of hooks around the map that have 25% faster Sacrifice speed? That would make for interesting gameplay at least and it would be clear that the Survivors need to rescue that person FAST or they'll lose them.
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Personally I believe the killer’s goal is to sacrifice all 4 survivors. Since the Mori allows the killer to just straight up kill them without sacrificing them to the entity it makes sense that there is a difference in the reward or emblems for that very action.
The two mechanics are similar but given that it’s an asymmetrical game the rewards for each side will always be different.
I’m simply exploring different reasons as to why the emblem system rewards pips for mori’s and hatch escapes the way it does.
Fundamentally I don’t think an offering should give an equivalent pip score that would have been achieved without it. Of course I don’t know the specific score rewarded for Mori or keys but that’s something I’d like to find out.
I actually never noticed if I pipped solely by escaping through the hatch but I always liked the 7000 points.
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I can't agree with your notion on objectives. You're ignoring that the Survivors have 'Stages' of objectives too, even if they're not as obvious as the Killer's hook stages. Bypassing portions of your ultimate requirements is a function of the Key and the Mori almost identically.
As for the pipping. I can tell you I have definitely pipped because I hatched. Sometimes I only pipped because I hatched, because otherwise the Killer would have had me dead to rights.
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Keys don't guarantee pips or BP. Just an escape.
Keys don't allow you to bypass all of your objective. Unlike moris, keys require more work to be done the more people who are on a map. 100% at 4 people, 80% at 3 people, 60% at 2 people. Moris allow a Killer to do 30% of their job before killing survivors and it can be used within the first minute of the game and makes the match exponentially easier for the Killer, since we all know the fewer survivors on the map the less likely they are to escape.
Keys show up less frequently in bloodwebs than moris. I just recently did a test of this and this was my experience with 1MM BP spent. That included counting the two key-saving addons as a "key". So with the tiny chance to get one from a chest, the spawn rate is probably "equalish".
Killers garner more BP than survivors also, so the rate at which they can gain their offerings is higher.
If there is a disparity between keys/moris, it isn't that keys are more rewarding, or easier to use, or easier to get. Sorry.
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