It's pretty easy to avoid Pyramid Head's Torment
Everybody is complaining he can avoid DS, BT, etc. This is only if he can get you Tormented in the first place...
In most of the gameplay I've watched from the PTB, Survivors simply aren't playing around his trails whatsoever. If you see him leaving a trail at a loop, you can just run to the next loop while he's slowed. He can't circle hooks or gens with his power (the trail gets deleted). So the only time you're forced to go through it is when he's cut off a section of the map with it (and remember the trail only lasts so long), in which case you can take literally 2 seconds to crouch through it and avoid the effect.
Maybe I'm missing something? But considering PH can't just throw Torment at you, it is 100% avoidable, and it's usually a misplay on the Survivor's part if they allow themselves to become Tormented.
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He only slows to like Huntress speed. You guys overestimate his slowness lmao
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It still takes a long time to cover an entire loop with a trail. Plenty of time to run away lmao
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He doesn't need to cover an entire loop. He just needs to dot where the pallet is at and that's it.
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You can't loop Pyramid Head like you would loop any other killer, I think you have to either drop the pallet early or run to another loop, depending where he is leaving his trail.
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He can use his power to leave a trail at a loop just like Freddy would leave a snare. He slowdown is barely noticeable, and not nearly huge enough for the survivor to get to the next loop.
It's a good thing that you said that you watched videos of the PTB. If you would have actually tried it for yourself you'd see that your post makes zero sense.
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Except unlike Freddy, when he's leaving a trail he has severely limited movement, so it's easy enough to run around the loop, break LoS, and leave the loop while he's still busy leaving a trail or trying to use his ranged attack. His counterplay is like Nurse where you want to always make distance between you and him instead of looping.
I don't have to play the PTB to know Survivors don't take it seriously or play well. PH's weaknesses will be much more apparent when actual good Survivor teams face him and people aren't just running through the trails without a second thought.
Also, drop the snark. This is a friendly discussion.
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His ranged attack should apply Torment on hit or it leaves the trenches on the ground of its radius. Either one. Other than that I'm pretty happy with him.
Currently seems a little too easy too avoid and too much of a waste of time for what little it gives.
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You can leave the loop but he still gets value out of forcing you out of it.
If this is more or less value than what tormented would give him is situational. But either way he's getting value out of the trails one way or another.
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Like The Hag's traps, Pyramid Head's trenches or torment can be crouched or avoided. They're quite obvious. However that's not the whole point:
If Pyramid Head starts a chase, he can set up his trenches in advance and chase survivors to them. There would be little point in crouching then, clearly!
It's how the power is used. In this case, the power is a bit like The Trapper's, in that you use map control to lure them into the trenches, or to cut off exits. Used that way, his power is very effective, especially combined with his mid range attack, or the scare he can get with his stealth perk to slam a survivor into one.
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Probably the way to torment people is trench loops and they either take the torment or run away and probably get hit for it.
Of course you also trench some strategic places where survivors likely to run through if nothing they will have to slow crouch and waste a little time and maybe the survivor you find will have to run through it.
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"so it's easy enough to run around the loop, break LoS, and leave the loop while he's still busy leaving a trail"
this is nonsense how are you gonna get to the next loop if he can instantly cancel his move which is literally 110% to 115% you clearly haven't played or watched someone good at PH otherwise as others said you would see how zero sense what you are saying is, now you can either deny everything and be delusional or maybe reconsider your opinion nothing else to say here tbh many people tried to correct u dude.
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Its really weird thay the trail deleted when near gens and gate n hook...
Those are places id want to trap the most tbh
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^This
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This seems like a solid idea to me.
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People need to stop underestimating this killer. Getting people into torment shouldn’t be something which you can do for free or with ease. Even then all you need to do is place torment around hooks, gens and at loops and you are guaranteed to get at least some people into torment. You don’t need to get literally EVERYONE every time, remember you can still hook people like any normal killer.
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If by severely limits you mean He becomes 4.4 like Huntress/Spirit sure...
If you abandon the loop he'll still catch you.
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I don't think I'm underestimating him at all, I said he's a decent killer.
"Getting people into torment shouldn’t be something which you can do for free or with ease."
I would agree more if the effect was strong or hindered the survivors in some way but it doesn't. Weak effect = should be decently easy to apply. If it was a strong effect, then sure, it should be harder, but it's not.
"Even then all you need to do is place torment around hooks, gens and at loops and you are guaranteed to get at least some people into torment."
Have you actually played on the PTB? You would know that you aren't able to place it near hooks or gens...it disappears seconds later..
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These forums have a rep of bringing up only specific scenarios that apply as reasoning for why something is "fair/not fair".
I'll give you an example. You ever wonder why the same people who complained about strong structures NEVER complained about how many dead/open areas there are? Where you are basically forced to play ring around the rosie until you will eventually go down? Because they only see things from one perspective.
Same thing here. Getting tormented is a lot easier than OP makes it sound. You can avoid it in some situations, but if you look at the bigger picture... loops aren't set up to do that. I'm not saying every loop has to be set up that way, but with the map changes recently they seem to want small/unsafe loops. Making me believe they want you to be tormented more than not... simply because it only assures that this killer will use his cages. So they want to give it to him rather than make him earn it.
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I think an effect that ultimately bypasses every hook based perk survivors have should be difficult to achieve
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That's why I'm on the fence wether his range attack should inflict torment or not, but It's not easy to torment a survivor if they know what they're doing; it's possible to prolongue a chase and get downed without getting tormented.
Also, I would only agree with your statement if the aura of the cage remained visible to the killer.
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That negative is kind of null and void because not only does the killer not get his perks as well, but the fact that it sends you to the opposite side of the map means those perks wouldn't be needed anyway. If they aren't needed in that scenario then you aren't really losing anything.
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You're not even reading what we're all writing. He DROPS TO 110%. You're not gonna lose LOS against that speed. You're not gonna break the loop against that speed. All he needs to do is use his power for literally 1 second, just to drop a small trail at the loop. That's all. If the survivor tries running away he will either get M1, or caught with the ranged attack if he is now out in the open.
He can either force you to torment yourself, and he will save time after he gets you, or he can force you to abandon the loop which will more often than not result in an easy hit, and he will save time with that as well.
I hate killer mains with such an insane bias with a passion, not gonna lie. That's the reason for the snark, and fully deserved as well. Play the PTB, and experience the killer from the survivor's standpoint.
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Punishment of the damned hits should apply torment.
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