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3 Seconds Is More Than Enough

NullSp3c
NullSp3c Member Posts: 765
edited June 2020 in General Discussions

I'm a Legion main and I like to see most of the threads that appear on the forum about the killer.

But one thing about them is that when anyone asks "Why did Legion get his fatigue increased to 4 seconds from 3?" the answer from the devs is always "Because they are a 4.6 m/s killer and the power would be too oppressive in chase and the survivor gets almost no time to run away to a pallet or window."

I got intrigued if it is really that bad to have a 3 seconds cooldown, so I decided to test that with a friend of mine. These videos are purely to measure the distance that the survivor gets when Legion cancels frenzy right behind the survivor so no mindgames or anything else like that matters here (in the second one i used shadowborn oops). I also recorded them in a kinda realistic scenario.

For the people who might say "But they had the speed boost from the hit" - I only cancelled the frenzy when I was very very close to the survivor so they had no speed boost there.


I think that 3 seconds fatigue is more than enough for a survivor to run away to safety from the killer.

The cooldown add-ons could just be reworked into something completely different.

Tell me your opinion about this.

Post edited by NullSp3c on
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Comments

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    I think about that 180 that you talked about. Of course it was brainless to keep missing and getting no penalty but coming from no penalty to EXTREME penalty is really never a good idea.

    I am trying now to use feral frenzy even if all survivors are injured just to put them mending and here's a tip: don't do it. I did it to prove a point and i was right- by the time that you hit the 2nd survivor the other one is finished mending so you basically do nothing with it.

    I have the philosophy that you only get profit from FF if you hit at least 2 survivors and 1 of them is healthy. Otherwise they are a pure m1 killer.

    Another 180 that comes to my mind is the fact that the most lethal and 2nd most flexible power in the game became the one with the 2nd most cooldown, is only worth in very specific scenarios and is ALWAYS non-lethal.

    Playing on PS4 must be really rough.

  • Aneurysm
    Aneurysm Member Posts: 5,270

    Yeah, you guys have the glorious aim dressing too for one thing. Better not go for a swing if there's a hooked survivor nearby.

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765
    edited June 2020

    I was talking about those straight walls that are not that straight because their hitboxes have corners in the middle for some reason but that too sometimes.

  • FablPlayz
    FablPlayz Member Posts: 169

    Agreed

  • FreddysMixTape
    FreddysMixTape Member Posts: 80


    >Another 180 that comes to my mind is the fact that the most lethal and 2nd most flexible power in the game became the one with the 2nd most cooldown, is only worth in very specific scenarios and is ALWAYS non-lethal.

    This. I loved how flexible frenzy used to be and how there were always so many choices one could make with the right one usually rewarding the player with multiple injures and a fairly quick down (or just a quicker down if you are actively trying to run someone down). It was a mobility tool, a chase tool, an information tool, a juggling tool and a stalling tool. One could basically flex the power to fit whatever their current situation needed at the time.

    With new Legion the power just feels incredibly restrictive. It's good for one thing and one thing only which is injuring a group of people IF they all happen to be close enough together and aren't actively trying to make distance. Like the power has only one purpose and it's not even amazing at it.

    In regards to the actual topic: I 100% agree, but I think the character needs much more to be actually decent, specifically they need some sort of chase tool again as I personally believe that a non-stealth killer without any chase tools will never be good.

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    I made some possible reworks for legion and posted them on the forums.

    I just pointed this flaw out, there are lost of others. Here's a list I made a few months ago that tells everything that is bad with the power.


  • FreddysMixTape
    FreddysMixTape Member Posts: 80

    I do think I've read some of your reworks and actually enjoyed them as a whole.

    Regarding the list, I can only say I agree with everything. I think Legion is beyond bad and like someone else in this thread already mentioned, it just feels like the devs just had a knee-jerk reaction(despite them saying that they would never knee-jerk nerf a character again when talking about freddy b4 his rework) and just put every nerf ever suggested onto the character in exchange for a measly 5% extra base ms(hurray?).

    In the end we can only hope they'll give them a proper power update some time in the near future.

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    I think that they will focus first on the chainsaw bros (add-ons only for hillbilly and add-ons + power rework for leatherface) and then pig's and huntresse's add-ons and then they will finally look at legion... if they ever will...

  • seki23
    seki23 Member Posts: 833
    edited June 2020

    i get the point but if you decrease the cooldown plus that cooldown addons you could create a 2 seconds stun wich can be very oppresive. unless you rework cooldown addons to make them different

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    Then rework the add-ons into something creative AND useful.

  • KlapzCheeks
    KlapzCheeks Member Posts: 171

    I play and main legion because hes underpowered. He needs a bit of a buff.

  • bkillerc
    bkillerc Member Posts: 142


    @PeanitsΒ @MandyTalk


    Hello Mandy/Peanits,

    Can you give your thoughts on this discussion? (Lowering Legion’s cooldown, missed Feral Frenzy attack penalties, etc.)

    We’ve had this version of Legion for a while and there’s a lot of feedback and statistics available now I’m sure.

    Thank you as always!

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    I can't understand people that do this, maining something that is underpowered just because it is. I just can't see the beauty in it so I admire the people who do that.

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    I said it was the most lethal power in the game (maybe the 2nd now that i think of it) because the survivor wasn't able to run away from you, it took a lot of time costing you the match so it wasn't good, it was simply lethal.

    I agree with what you said tho.

  • DetailedDetriment
    DetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    Just for posting this, the devs will give Legion a five second stun.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976

    The thing about legion is dispite being on the weaker side ( i personally don't think it's that bad) they are very popular and they are quite the noobstomper

    Overal Legion is probably doing pretty well as if you are up against newer survivors who can't chase well it's usually an easy win because of either being able to down everyone left and right or by getting massive momentum by all the healing being done.

    So if you look at Legion who is picked often and is doing well on the grand scale of things and then look at other weaker killers who are doing worse and are picked less. The priority is obvious

    We might get some small changes across the line but i wouldn't hold my breath for a rework/huge buff anytime soon

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    I wouldn't doubt it... I wish i had the PepeLaugh emote here.

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    Every killer can stomp on newer survivors if they're good enough.

    As you said, they can change numbers and it doesn't take that much time but it's been more than a year that they did the update.

  • PigMainClaudette
    PigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    The thing is, and I did cover this in my thread The Legion Problem, is that he's balanced around the Pip system rather than the community-preferred kill based perceptions. Legion is without a doubt one of, if not, the EASIEST killer to rank up with even if you don't get many kills.

    Legion's strength isn't in their ability to secure kills, it's being able to continually and consistently harass survivors all game.

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    It is simply a bad design. They need a rework imo but until then dont make them absolutely horrendous to play as.

  • SaltyLanguage
    SaltyLanguage Member Posts: 4

    Yo Im famous lmao

  • extonjonas
    extonjonas Member Posts: 41

    Well its your own fault for maining legion, he is a bad killer. If you ask me i think they should revert him back to his old self with all the new changes. Bring him back down to his slower base movement, give him back the ability to down people with frenzy but keep the nerf where he has a four second cooldown and if he misses an attack he still leaves frenzy. Since they changed the way deep wound works and you can no longer cheese the down it is not so cheap. I just think that it makes no sense to have a killer whose power stops being useful once survivors are injured.

  • bluedog1116
    bluedog1116 Member Posts: 27

    Good job on the guy who made this post, you clearly know what is the problem is, what you want fixed, and and how prepared you are. GREAT JOBπŸ‘πŸ‘πŸ‘πŸ‘

  • notyarbllewe
    notyarbllewe Member Posts: 213

    I think the Legion's power is really good itself (I am a Legion main myself), but it is just things like this that make many people doubt him. Maybe the Devs could make his power naturally last a bit longer or have him move faster (and/or shorten his cool down as you said)? The many still-giant maps don't allow him to hit many people when they are spread apart. It kills him when he can only hit one person each frenzy. The more he hits, the stronger he becomes. When a Legion player can hit almost everyone each frenzy, the game is theirs.

  • mike1288mccarthy
    mike1288mccarthy Member Posts: 78

    I feel legion is kinda weak especially with how bad the match making system is, I get dominated whenever I play as legion. But I can get 4ks with Freddy without even trying that hard, but with legion it's a different story i need to try so hard to just get 1 sacrifice.

  • CriminalMind_ITA
    CriminalMind_ITA Member Posts: 93

    Agree 100% man


    Devs are survivor mains, fffff

  • Sweet_Feng
    Sweet_Feng Member Posts: 72

    I'm a Legion main and I have to say in my opinion she isn't weak

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    One of the many other problems that old legion had was that your power did nothing else to an injured person.

    The missing hits mechanic is very unreliable and it shouldnt be key to balance a killer imo.

    I like the Legion because of their aesthetics and i have been very vocal in the forums that i dont like the power how it is now. I loved the old power but ofc it needed changes.

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765
    edited June 2020

    Doesnt matter how many buffs that they give to feral frenzy as long as they are a m1 killer in the end you totally rely on the survivor's mistakes and in high ranks people usually know how to loop really well so you get stomped and you cant do anything about it.

    Its a very bad design atm and they need a rework. Legion now is just annoying to face. You know that something ia wrong when you feel safer when the killer uses their power- i feel like that when legion uses frenzy because i know im immortal while he is in that stance.

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765
    edited June 2020

    Yeah legion really has a bad time at finishing survivors as the videos show.

    On the other hand freddy has the whole package.

  • The_Daydreamer
    The_Daydreamer Member Posts: 744

    Thank you for your work. Glad someone actually took the time to do this. β™₯

  • KlapzCheeks
    KlapzCheeks Member Posts: 171

    I also like to run perkless on survivor so I can get better at chases.

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    I want this killer be something enjoyable for everyone. Not frustrating for one side and annoying for the other.

  • Maelstrom10
    Maelstrom10 Member Posts: 1,922

    honestly the 4s stun is why i don't play legion much if at all. sure he wasn't the best initially but the 4s stun is like being hit with a ds or head on constantly, only you can move at like 20% your speed, except your also being blinded like a nurse,

    least nurses stun (her lookdown etc) balances out the fact that she is lethal in her attacks

    i will say this, and say it again until the day i die. legion shouldn't be built around deep wounds, but rather be the counterpart to nurse, as ghostface is to myers.

    legion should be able to do normal damage in his frenzy as if it was an m1 attack. at the same time though, successful hits should diminish his power gauge much like with oni. His rechage should be 20s for a 10s use period where he can just go ape, really fast, and shorter cooldowns/faster vaults and vaulting pallets. missing attacks should pull him out and be punished. his reach should be shortened to compensate for his increased speed requiring him to be precise. stuns in frenzy should double stun and remove his power. exiting and entering frenzy should be able to be done at any stage of his power gauge, but he can lower his power below that of which is 0 left by successfully downing a survivor or being stunned, forcing him into a longer cooldown.

    take away deepwounds and his tracking. he doesn't need those. he needs lethality, and would've done so much better as a pseudo nurse/oni style rampager with long cooldowns, who has no tracking or extra abilities other then to just ignore pallets and vaults temporarily at the expense of losing all tracking on survivors (blood and scratch marks) and requiring precision hits. you could even make it that successful hits lengthen his power time, but have attack cooldowns, but successful downs take him out of his power.

  • NullSp3c
    NullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    What you are suggesting feels too overpowered and obnoxious for both sides. As i said before in this thread, i think that you shouldn't rely on missing or not a hit to balance something.

    By what you are suggesting, when legion uses frenzy the survivor can just try to make them miss but it isnt that easy unless stupid things like hitboxes and stuff happen. On the other hand there are too many stuns and too much penalty for missing a hit.

    I don't think it is the way to go. Vaulting pallets should be removed or activate is specific occasions.