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We're Gonna Live Forever and Kindred don't work with Pyramid's cages.
I think that perks should work with the cages, I use them a lot and against Pyramid Head are semi-useless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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On the flip side killer related hook perks like BBQ and make your choice don't work with cages either so I think it's fair.
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Kindred works.
(At least when the person who is running Kindred is in the Cage)
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That's the reason cages got introduced. To motivate people to use other perks than the occasional meta perks.
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I wonder if it's bad or good. I mean on one hand, no kindred. On the other hand, they are usually placed halfway across the map. A survivors runs over to them, uncages them, and heals them. If PH wanted to tunnel, he'd waste valuable time.
And according to this guy, BBQ doesn't work so new strats and metas :)
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I think when the novelty wears off most pyramids will use the cages more sparingly. They have their uses but caging survivors is often less useful than hooking them, plus they'll want to activate their own perks which only work with hooks.
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Your wrong survivors avoid your trenches like the plague can you specially if you have one gen just cage them and there far away giving you time his ability is nice you also avoid ds and any other perk like that
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Except the killer knows (hopefully) that he will be in the game and pick perks based off of that. The survivors do not have the same luxury.
As with plague, as with freddy, the whole cage mechanic just straight up denying perks is lazy and awful game design. Only good part about the cages is the changed struggle phase. You have a very limited loadout as is, you should not have to gamble on being allowed to use it every other match. There is better ways to shake up metas.
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That’s the point. Any perks that have to do with hooks dont work with his cages
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Ah well. Spawning far away does not prevent the Killer from going there. Especially on small Maps you need to get lucky as Survivor to have another Survivor right next to you, otherwise Pyramid Head is there. But this was expected to happen, if DBD-Killers can tunnel, they will. Wasting time is relative, if you get a Survivor out of the Match early on by doing this you did not really waste any time.
Also, not using BBQ.. eh. First, you can torment Survivors and hook them, and then use the Cage (if the Rescuer does not have BT)... Or even use the Mini-Mori if they went to second stage. And still get the Stack.
And last but not least, the Killer decides his Build, but the Survivors dont decide the build based on the Killer. If I run BT and face a Pyramid Head who is only using Cages, nothing I can do. But a Pyramid Head who is running BBQ and PGTW and uses only cages had the choice to use a build for their Playstyle. If someone uses BBQ and PGTW and uses the Cages all of the time, it is entirely on them to not get any value out of their Perks.
(Long term I think Hooks will be better for Pyramid Head, because they give access to some good Perks and give more control about the hooked person. But if someone wants to play Pyramid Head to tunnel, they will have it easy)
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That's the problem yknow? Perks like Autodidact are situational, DS is not. With the introduction of PH hook related perks gonna be a gamble too in a way. I like it.
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Which better ways are there? Nerf meta perks?
If you buff weak perks, you get most likely even more imbalance in the game because the perks need to be stronger than current meta.
Btw it is not only gambling about Pyramid Head. Medkits against Plague is gambling, Iron Will against Stridor is gambling, even Blendette against Freddy is gambling (because of the shimmering in dream state). BT is also gambling against Freddy and every stealth killer that can easily deny th TR condition. I'm surely forgetting about even more gambling effects that are probably more common. With this mass of perks, status effects and killer powers it is pretty much the nature of the game that you run into situations where your loadout does not work as intended. Wait one or two weeks and Pyramid Head will be less frequently played, then it will be less of a "problem"
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You have 70+ perks to choose from, sorry you can’t run DS and BT to unhook in the killer’s face and then feel invincible for a minute
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Yes buffing older, weaker perks is one is one of the obvious ways to do it. And I dont agree that this would bring imbalance at all. There should absolutely be a baseline for how powerful perks are and at the moment it swings waaay too much from the best to the worst. And there is far more ######### tier perks than good, on both sides. The more perks closer to each other in power level the more variance we would see in the "meta".
Ah yes, nothing like a passive aggressive response with baseless assumptions to my play style and perks of choice and not a single argument for or against the actual topic at hand.
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No hook perks work with the cages so it's 100% fair that no survivor hook based perks work either. Don't know why everyone is so annoyed by it.
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Okay to your argument, I disagree. I do not think it is bad that some killers flat out ignore certain perks. It gives people incentive to try other perks out, or to keep playing your build but risk going with 2-3 perks if the killer counters them.
For example Kindred was in my build 99% of the time, yesterday I swapped it to Bond because I knew the cages would hurt kindred.
Normally on release day I run WGLF for points, I still did even though it only works on regular hooks you can still get a few of those plus protection hits.
So I don’t assume, what is In your build that is being ruined by the mechanics?
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I see for example some Inner Strength running around. Arguably the best healing perk. Still I see more Selfcare and the DS/Unbreakable/BT/Spinechill meta has not been touched in the slightest way. Same for Kindred, which is arguably one of the best solo perks, at least when you trust the feedback. I don't even see the perk that often. How about Bond? Look at the feedback and how high it is praised to be a better healing perk than Selfcare. Still at the same pickrate like Kindred.
The 4 mentioned meta perks will never be touched unless you create OP perks. Or bring in more killers like Pyramid Head that have alternative playstyles to play around that.
I counted some of my games with an extended list of meta perks being the above 4, Iron Will, Adrenaline + "Exhaustion perk" (DeadHard, Lithe etc. -> that's why I say "extended" because like everyone runs an exhaustion perk but not everyone runs the same, depending on playstyle). In like 80-90% of the games there are 10+ of all 16 perks from this extended list, the average is probably around 12. Just a rough guess on the average, I would need to note, but pretty sure on the 10+ percentage
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Well if you roll a killer that makes all your chosen perks useless - you can always just ######### on first hook. They haven't taken that away - unless it's a cage then they force you to wait.
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I agree, I should start writing it down but as a killer and solo survivor I will say I am shocked when a player doesn’t have 3 of the extended meta perks you’re talking about. I personally feel like a moron if I don’t run exhaustion, why, because even the worst one Lithe is pretty dang strong.
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I've been hooking tormented survivors to keep them tormented bc it keeps them nervous and I can finish them off quicker later if necessary and avoid any endgame d-strikes. Cages can still be nice to save time but there's a good chance it'll teleport them next to the other survivors who can have them out and healed asap without having to go far from their gen.
I hit the ranged attack pretty consistently as well, which is surprising considering how much I suck with huntress + slinger. I'm loving him honestly.
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Nobody will switch their builds for one killer out of twenty, who sometimes still have to trigger them. Besides that many hook related meta perks for survivors often even get used, depending what's happening in the game. People are already used not using ther perks sometimes, which doesn't mean it isn't a little bit annoying for them.
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His ranged attack Is great for zoning, or rather faking it is. That split second pump fake of grabbing your side can make survivors afraid to drop pallets or vault windows. And then if they do you hit them.
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But it's at least a start.
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Considering WGLF gives you a stack for untrapping, flashlight saves ect. I think it should also give a stack for saving from a cage, especially since the perk has literally no benefit within the match itself. Other perks I understand but I think an exception could be made for WGLF.
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It definitely does not give a stack for flashlights or pallet saves, or for un trapping someone unless you’re eating a hit at the same time.
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It does.
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Recently? They patched it out over a year ago so when was the last time you actually had it happen, if it’s been since then it’s a bug.
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Probably a few weeks ago. But I sadly have no way to test it except for live games, because I only have one friend playing DBD.
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Yep that’s a bug then, it was always a bug they patched it out I’m not surprised to see it resurface though. I may start bringing flashlights again
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15 various pick up/carry/hook related perks it counters. "Change up your limited build choice or risk having parts of it not work at all" is not what I would call good incentive. Personally I think hard counters has no place in the game. Its lazy and as mentioned earlier it feels awful for the receiving end.
Self Care is a special case, its popular in solo because it gives the user full control over when and where to heal without reliance on the other solo survivors. Solo survivors tend to put their own survival over the teams survival.
As far as the meta list go, I agree, sounds about right in my experience too. And I think most of the perk collection being mediocre to straight up awful contributes a lot to this result.
As for killers with alternative play styles to play around, you can have that without a bunch of hard counters to perks.
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Okay so out of those 15 hook related survivor perks how many get used? I mean sorry if it counters your Boil Over/Breakout build but so does just getting picked up by the killer.
Also as a tradeoff a killer using it loses BBQ, Pop, etc. Now granted they have control over that but the cages aren't just a positive. They have a downside too.
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BBQ, Pop, Devour Hope, Dying Light, Huntress Lullaby, Blood Warden, Make Your Choice, Furtive Chase
DS, BT, WGLF, We'll Make It, Deliverance, Kindred, Second Wind, Off the Record
Good perks became less good and bad perks became trash while facing the iluminatti guy
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Again asking for how you would do that ^^ So far, and also taking into account current development of perks, evolution of meta and simply experience of 3 years DbD, I would say again nerf meta or create perks stronger than meta is the only way to change pick rates.
The complain about Pyramid Head cages is jsut a personal dislike, I already said that there is a mass of gambling in the game, and it is not a problem because it does not affect every killer, just one of 20. The "issue" here is not a newly raised issue, it is known for a lot of situations and it is not a problem in any of the other cases, especially as it is not common to happen. The only thing might be that everyone is running meta perks being affected by that and everyone playing PH at the moment, so the yellout is louder than people complaining about having a medkit wasted while encountering Plague (if ever someone did complain about that).
I would not call this bad design. If so, then the whole game and its DLC nature is bad design. And if anyone would claim that, I would answer "no cure in sight, deal with it or leave".
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When will people understand any hook-related perks dont work on cages? Its a trade off for both sides
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If they want people to start running non-meta perks maybe they should just buff the existing 50+ perks that are almost useless?
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Using other perks, because 1 from 20 killers has an ability to avoid the effect of meta perks? Well..
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Are some Survivors that bad that they are unable to win a game without the same 4 perks they've been using since their release? You can still easily win a game with good and unique builds, regardless of the Killer. PH just happens to force you make one, or Survive with essentially 0-1 perk working.
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Well maybe some builds are good and unique, but perks like DS, BT, Adrenaline, BBQ etc. are still the strongest in the game. Besides there are other stronger killers than PH like Nurse or Spirit. It will not force people to change the meta just because PH showed up...
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Many perks aside from those are strong and you can still get by without it. Bond, Spine Chill, DH, Prove Thyself, Repressed Alliance, etc. You could easily replace those Meta perks with other perks that are also considered Meta if not just as good and not widely used. If you run into a Killer that doesn't tunnel or camp in a match, how effective was your BT or DS? PH doesn't affect, in fact no Killer does Adrenaline at all, and if he uses Cage the entire game, he will never use BBQ.
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yep!
Plague counters adrenaline most times, Freddy counters BT already, killers like Hintress and clown have common addons that counter exhaustion perks, etc
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Torment and Hook them on the first down.
After this you can:
A) Cage them on their 2nd hook - Letting you kill them (via hook) after uncaging without fear of DS/BT.
or
B) Hook them a 2nd time (if situation allows), using Torment to 'Mori' them the next time you down them.
Option A is usually easier to do - So long as you play ok and don't waste your Cage on hook #1, it's pretty easy to set up/guarantee future kills.
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