http://dbd.game/killswitch
BHVR ever done anything with SWFs unbalanced advantages?
I've heard people mention they changed Kindred, what was it they changed?
As far as I can tell they buffed a perk for survivors... so this means they buffed it for SWFs as well?
From recollection you used to be able to see the killers perks when one of your SWFs died (I'm still shaking my head at this one).
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Oh, another SWF-Thread by this person.
Kindred works now when the Survivor is in a Cage. Which makes perfect sense. And does not affect SWFs that much.
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*Sorry to keep mentioning SWFs, I'm happy for friends to play with friends but on this game it can be used as a huge advantage and really do wonder if SWFs are bullying BHVR to not balance the game?
Recently I played a twitch streamer and half their team didn't use perks... perhaps because it was the new silent hill survivor but they still could do things quicker than most solo survivors at green/purple level.
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SWF really baffles me how BHVR don't actually address it. I notice you're normally defending it but you are saying that the kindred buff didn't address SWFs and solo survior balances?
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SWF is in a difficult spot, don't get me wrong, I hate tryhard 4 man SWFs with OoO and flashlights and SWAT level of coordination, but you don't face them every match and neither do they represent how the majority of SWF groups play. Nerfing SWF is tempting but it will affect the experience of the players that don't play like tryhards and are just trying to have some fun with friends.
In my opinion to balance SWF you need to disable some easily abusable perks like DS and OoO, or any aura reading perks for that matter.
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Kindred is basically THE Solo Survivor Perk. And yes, I defend it, because when I lose a game, it is most likely because I was worse than the Survivors. And I think that this is more realistic than being obsessed with SWF.
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Perhaps they are on console more than pc, I have noticed differences as I progress towards red ranks on killer and survivor on pc
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Yes, they nerf solos so they can change SWF a bit.
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I'm not saying you're obsessed with defending SWFs but you do respond to many SWF posts I've noticed which is healthy for the forum.
BHVR have hidden SWF information from other survivors and killers which creates toxicity.
As a survivor I like to know if we all played well as solos.
The same goes for killer, being beaten by solos or an swf team. It makes it hard to know if what changes in perks of play style worked or didn't.
For me or seems nobody can think of BHVR ever trying to balance SWFs
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For balancing SWFs and solos you need to address hope optimal they are.
I played solo survivor against a doctor with ruin, after being hooked I returned to what was a 90% complete gen to less than 20. This would never happen with an SWF and lost the game with 1 gen to do.
OoO and second chance perks could be excluded for SWFs but if BHVR went the other way of buffing everything it would get crazily stupid imo
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So, no then. Except for hiding killers perks and addons till the end of the game
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SWF will most likely never be changed. A majority of the playerbase is SWF; it's definitely more fun than solo queue. The best BHVR can do is try to buff solo queue, but they've just been making perks that only really work in a SWF like For The People, New Sabo and Breakout.
I would like a post-game bloodpoint bonus for going against a SWF. That would be nice. It would have to only tell you it was a SWF after game though, because who in their right minds would choose to play against a SWF?
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They just need to disable 1 perk slot for each additional party member. Comms are inevitable, but SWF shouldn't get 16 perk slots to share.
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Okay so.
The devs have said, many times, that by stats alone SWF and solo aren't that far apart. Now everyone knows this to be false- a SWF death squad is so far apart from 4 exceptionally good solo players (but voice comms can't make you better at being chased, for example. If you're bad, you're bad), so they're taking this into account as well. Community feedback is important.
When the MMR system releases this will give them more metrics to judge survivors and killers on. For example, going by escapes and kills alone they're close. Going by game length, how long each person was hooked, how long each gen took, how long each chase was, who saved who, did they go down taking a protection hit, did they die unhooking, were the first hooked or three hooked, they'll be able to analyse this issue in a lot more depth.
If it continues to seem balanced, then I don't know what they'll do, probably nothing.
If it becomes unbalanced, they will take action.
This is what they've always done (eventually).
This was answered in their QNA from home which me and Fibijean did a summary of. I know you know this, since you took my paraphrased words as the devs' own ones and then tried to make false claims over this.
It isn't new information. The devs are aware.
EDIT: made it more clear what I meant by "everyone knows this to be false".
Post edited by GoodBoyKaru on0 -
They could just try playing the game.
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@Peanits is a rank 1 huntress main who also dabbles into survivor and provides the gameplay for the QNA streams.
I know @not_Queen used to stream this game a lot too, but I'm not sure since I haven't kept up with it.
Mathieu has streamed it, since OchiDO asked to be unbanned on his stream. I've seen Dave stream it too.
I'm sure many others play it without streaming it too.
Sure, nobody plays it.
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Are people really so delusional that they think BHVR is lying about SWF stats? SWF gives you communication, it doesn't make you good at the game. A group of mediocre players will still be mediocre in SWF, just slightly less so (9%, according to the released stats). Are there god squads that will absolutely demolish every killer in the game? Sure. But they're not strong because of an inherent advantage in SWF, they're strong because they're a group of 4 smart players that would be just as competent in solo queue. And even then, they're rare: I can count on my hands the amount of times I've gone against a god squad, and I've been consistent rank 1 for almost 2 years now. If you think you're getting demolished by a group of SWF every other game, you're just not very good at killer. Play objectives, learn to drop chases at the right time, identify your win conditions. In other words, git gud.
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You have more tracking perks as a killer than ever. Because for a very long time a big part of the survivor experience was being able to immerse, and you cannot do that as easily anymore.
Haven't you created a thread about this before?
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No I'd wager about 7 threads.
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Considering your name I never thought I'd say this, but I agree lol.
Updated my main post to make it clearer what I meant.
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Thank you thank you thank you, I honestly wish i could just copy paste this in every swf post that conplains like this but I don't think a lot of killers will accept it. There are rare instances still where swf presents a base advantage in the form of OoO against a trapper or hag where traps being placed can be seen but overall the communication doesn't make a lick of a tangible difference if the survivors aren't skilled.
It seems though people will never admit that swf individually can be great skilled players and everything they do well in a match is just disregarded as swf. It makes absolutely no sense to nerfs or disable entire perks for swf
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Genuinely just wondering what do you mean by the stats are false?
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I mean, a SWF death squad is far apart from your average solo q game. I should've made this more clear, sorry. Updated the original too to clarify.
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How do you figure a majority of the player base are swf?
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No prob, thanks for the clarification.
Judging by stats though that would suggest that those type of squads are so few and far between that they don't even skew results? I'm just worried for how they'd ever go about balancing swf for all swf types without really taking away from the casual swf experience. Maybe base any debuffs for swf on higher ranked players only? Of course this could only work with the new mmr system hopefully but its the only fair way i can think of to address it
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Issues then arise of having sweatted and then trying to play casual, but not being able to because you're being penalised though.
The only real way is to buff solos to SWF information level (bhvr please add a totem counter i'm begging you) and then give killers the superbuff to match all superbuffs.
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Response was more to highlight the issues with relying on metrics in such a subjective gameplay experience. Escapes vs kills is about as poor a measure as I can think of and none of the others are going to give you a real clear picture of balance either.
The vast majority of perks are balanced with solo queue in mind. Take Spine Chill, for example. If one person runs it, that's fine in solo queue and the perk works as intended. If the survivor can say to his 3 friends, "the killer is looking at me" then all four survivors effectively run Spine Chill. All of the recon perks that have a built in pro/con have their con invalidated and all of the crutch perk cons of requiring specific triggers are minimized. Because you can just tell your friends. You don't need an Excel spreadsheet to know that's busted.
You might be able to use raw data to convince yourself that's not a problem, no attention necessary, which is apparently the dev MO. But you tell me - is a long chase more positive than a short one? Is a short game a better experience than a long one? Every one of those metrics you provided have a giant "it depends" asterisk in terms of determining "is this healthy or unhealthy."
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I don't know how the devs will measure with the MMR system. Nobody but them do, that's the point of it being a hidden MMR system. Those were some guesses my caffeine-addicted brain could come up with whilst writing that comment over the course of a minute. I'm sure BHVR have given it much more thought.
And again, community feedback is also taken into account, not just raw stats.
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That's fair. I suppose my point is that it's fairly obvious the stuff's broken just with elementary observation of the game environment. All metrics and statistics are going to do is muddy the water and only ever be something to interpret as cause for inaction - paralysis by analysis, if you will.
If you balance based on a solo experience and limited information, then you have to do something when that is obviously not the case. Otherwise you just supercharge whatever's opposite the balance that limited information supplies.
Otherwise you get what we have now, which is essentially survivors getting to run more than 4 perks each, as they can share between them.
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SWF for years has been the boogeyman that bad killers blame for not being able to apply pressure well, along with gen rush. They're the same people that chase one player around a strong structure for 5 gens then blame gen times for the reason they lost. There's this weird vocal subset of the player population that will just refuse to admit that they have more to learn as a player, and demand that the game be radically balanced in their favour so that they can always win.
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SWF is not unbalanced. The players have the advantage of communication (f they are using it), but that's it. I've steam-rolled SWF group after SWF group. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.
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