General Discussions
General Discussions
Mori should not work with cages
I just got mori'd after being sent to a cage. If hook perks don't work with cages, neither should mori which requires hooks.
"Grants the ability to kill one/all Survivors who have been hooked by your hand during the next Trial."
This is the exact description for Ivory/Ebony. It's honestly bull ######### this even works.
Comments
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I heavily doubt it'll change the outcome anyways. Both Moris & Keys are a difficult issue.
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Cages count as being hooked, but being released from one doesn't count as being unhooked.
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Then he'd just hook you, where's the difference?
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Agreed. How can you take away perks like BT and BBQ with the cages but allow moris to work. Its not a hook so how can someone be morid???
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This is independent of mori/key balance.
It says "hooked" on the offering. It makes no sense to allow mori if literally no other hook effect works.
No they don't. BBQ and Pop do not work if you cage someone. Therefore, they do not count as hooks. They only remove hook states.
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he has to waste the time to actually hook you . How can he have the benefit of sending you to the cage and the benefits of the mori as well. The cage isnt a hook... PERIOD moris shouldnt work with it.
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???
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"Makes zero sense" DbD dev mantra.
Ask them.
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You want them to change the wording on moris over such semantics?
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It would be more effective to tunnel you out the game by hooking you near him instead of completely losing you by "range-hooking" you and risking having your survivorfriends near him. Just be happy he couldn't camp you to death.
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What? No. Where did I say that. The mori says "HOOKED" therefore it should not work if you did not hook someone.
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Had no idea this was the case. Honestly kind of ridiculous.
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He'd just take several extra seconds to hook you then. if anything you're safer if he decides to cage as your teammates can nearly insta save you and ph has to travel across the map. also killer hook perks dont work with the cage too. e.g., bbq
This isn't an issue
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You guys are missing the point. So I will make it easy.
IF THE OFFERING SAYS "HOOK" THEN YOU MUST HOOK.
Period end of story. It is an issue and it's honestly mind blowing people defend it.
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@thesuicidefox you're just being pedantic. a simple change to the offering description and this big "issue" is solved.
it's mind blowing you seem to think it's this big deal hence why i assumed you were getting at something else as did others apparently
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No. There doesn't need to be a change to the offering. Read what I wrote.
MORI SHOULD NOT WORK WITH CAGES.
No other hook effects work on cages, why is mori the exception?
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its just bs that no hook perks work on either side but a mori does. how can that be possible. no ds no bt no pop no bbq no dhope....... but you can mori from the cage. I don't think wording should be changed i think moris shouldn't work out of the cage periiod.... or if youre going to allow moris allow unhook perks. simple... if not its nonsense.. no protection out of the cage and the killer can mori i play more killer than anything and thats just nonsense,.
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So what's the problem? You either get caged or you get hooked and then immediately die. The outcome isn't going to change if someone brings a Mori in unless you succeed at hiding or escaping chases.
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Again literally nothing would change, he'd just hook you and I don't think you'd have survivors bodyblocking your first hook for you.
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@thesuicidefox i am reading what you write, it's petty, vindictive and obnoxious
i think it absolutely should work on cages. the killer's hook perks are a fair trade for the surv's. that's kinda the whole point of the cages, it takes a hook state and denies hook perks. perks are not offerings so stop drawing false equivalencies
and relying on a description? cmon, they get changed all the time to more accurately reflect how they work and no amount of caps lock will change that
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You can stop someone from getting hooked (flashlight, sabo, pallets, etc). And you have more ways to protect the unhooked guy (BT, DS, etc).
The outcome would indeed change if you had to take hooks instead of using cages.
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You're not getting the point...... The cage doesn't count as a hook with perks why should it with a mori. You have to waste time hooking the survivor if you want the effects from the perks. it should be the same with a mori. Also survivor can stop a hook whether it be sabo, block, or flashlight. It doesn't make sense to take away all perk affects but let a moris work. get it now???
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@Peanits can you clear this up please???
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So stupid tbh. Like wth Devs.
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The obvious solution is to reword Mori's so they activate after progress toward sacrificing a survivor.
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"it's petty, vindictive and obnoxious"
Seriously? I want the cages to be CONSISTENT. Please explain how asking for consistency is any of these things.
It does have something to do with offerings when the offering specifically says "a survivor who is hooked". Literally the only reason you would defend this is because you intend to abuse it.
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@thesuicidefox making this huge fuss over a description inconsistency cos of a bad game to try and get at ph's power is petty and vindictive
OBNOXIOUS IS QUITE SELF EXPLANATORY I THINK
now onto the only sentence you had of mild substance
his power cancels out perks not offerings. how many times do i have to explain this? to dumb it down for you, i'll use an internet example for you: you're comparing apples to oranges
it still takes a hook state hence why the mori should work and the mori's description should be changed instead. i believe how mori's work now to be intentional and until it's confirmed whether it's intentional or not, implying it's an exploit is both intellectually dishonest and desperate
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no the obvious solution is to either make all hook perks and offerings work or none at all or make it so you cant kill unless someone is on last hook
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"Huge fuss" LMAO
I found out that you could be mori'd after being caged. Made a post because the offering specifically says hook, and that's a fuss. Okay. Sure. Whatever you say.
His power cancels out anything that says "hook". Therefore offerings should not work. I don't understand how you can claim the opposite. Cages =/= hooks for literally everything BUT a mori. Explain how that makes any sense.
Nothing needs to changed about the offering description. Mori should just not work with cages, just like everything else that says "hook" in the description. It's that simple.
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Devs and their consistency... lmao
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@thesuicidefox all you do is oversimplify. it's honestly exhausting
first off, that's just wrong. nowhere does it say on his power that it cancels out anything that says "hook" so idk where you pulled that out from and secondly, because mori's. are. not. perks. they're an exception because they should not be subject to the rule to begin with and until the devs confirm this otherwise, using perks as a reason why offerings should be cancelled too is a logical fallacy
all you're doing is ignoring everything else and just focusing on the hook part. just because two things share a similarity does not mean they are the same and should be compared. this is textbook false equivalence and ignoring this does not make it go away or your argument valid
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It shouldnt tbh, its another example of the design teaming overlooking/failing at something
If things like exhaustion not resetting, BT and DS not working out of boxes, then Moris should not either
add in things like Pop not proccing, and you have a whole mess of a mechanic that clearly was not thought out
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"first off, that's just wrong. nowhere does it say on his power that it cancels out anything that says "hook" so idk where you pulled that out from"
1) LITERALLY NO OTHER HOOK EFFECT WORKS.
2) Devs said exactly this. So mori should be no exception.
"secondly, because mori's. are. not. perks. they're not an exception because they should not be subject to the rule to begin"
It says "Grants the ability to kill one/all Survivors who have been hooked by your hand during the next Trial." It doesn't matter if it's a perk or not, the description specifically says HOOK. There is no over simplification. That's literally what the offering says and it's literally what the devs said about his power NOT working with hook effects.
"all you're doing is ignoring everything else"
IT. SAYS. HOOKED. Period that's all I have to say to prove my point. You seem to ignoring the fact it explicitly says "HOOK" in the description and that the devs themselves have said it's not supposed to work with hook effects. Like how can you even deny this? It's very clear that it shouldn't work with cages. Seriously mind boggling you would say it should.
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This might be a bit of speculation but all previous mori have always worked after your first hook state and Pyramid head Mori only works on 2nd hook state. Pyramid as killer gives great signalization that eventually, Ebony Mori and Ivory mori will only work on 2nd hook state. I can imagine them weakening keys such that hatch only appears when all 5 generator are completed instead of that strange rule "When he number of fully repaired generator exceeds the number of living survivor".
Cages count as being hooked, but being cage unhooked does not count as being unhooked from a regular hook. Ebony mori description was written before pyramid head was a killer so the wording is very ambiguous now. The only perk that is does not function properly with current cage system is Adrenaline. If you read Adrenaline fully, It says specifically that if you are disabled when this perk activates, the effect is put on hold and being cage should count as being disabled and once you are freed, Adrenaline should activate but I don't think it does.
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"Cages count as being hooked"
No they don't. If they did than anything that procs "on hook" would work. But they don't.
Cages consume a hook state, they are not a hook state.
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Why won't devs respond and help with this issue??
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"Survivors in a Cage of Atonement can be Sacrificed as If they were on a hook". I think you should consider reading tooltips before posting.
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Sacrifice =/= mori
Unless someone updated the DBD dictionary.
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funny you should say that.. .Ive been waiting for a response from them for over 24 hours on a SEPERATE issue.
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you do realize "sacrifice" and "kill" are two different things right????
I think you need to take your own advice buddy. ๐
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Well the descriptions are important. And when they're not accurate, they do need to be changed. Who would disagree?
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Ok so if they reword the offering to clarify the interaction without changing it then problem solved right?
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@DudeDelicious dont make me laugh. if you mean when he's got everyone in cages then that team is either bad or stupid allowing you to get to that point. balance decisions, however minor, shouldn't be based on bad survs. parroting your own logic, i can also end the game quicker if i bring a mori and basement 4 potatoes with insidious bubba, i suppose mori's shouldn't work off hooks too
@thesuicidefox the only other hook effects besides perks are? perks becoming usable again (exhaustion resetting) and o ye other perks becoming usable. my point
it's ironic you quote me on "all you're doing is ignoring everything else" and then you do exactly that again choosing to rely on something that changes often and is clearly not a reliable talking point. hell, this patch is even an example of descriptions getting changed lmao
u know i dont even know why im continuing to waste my time on this nonissue at this point. i feel like im just going in circles with you and if ph really wants to mori he'll just spend several extra seconds to hook instead so w/e. if the devs change this to make you and this echo chamber happy so be it. i'll just hook instead if i want to mori a blendi or something idk
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Let's put two tooltip together. In Pyramid power, the cage of Atonement counts as being hooked. Ebony mori states you need to be hooked first before the killer can mori you. It works as intended. Is it balanced? Nope. Its not like this offering was ever fair to begin with. Pyramid head is like perfect catalyst for making toxic killer video.
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Personally I feel keys and mori's need reworks entirely. They both cuck the other side with little counterplay.
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So how would you buff this B- or C tier killer if you stripped aways moris from his cage? cos every nerf on something that is already weak should have a buff or else he'd just never get played.
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No. Stop saying this. You're like the 4th person to say this.
Cage =/= hook. Therefore you shouldn't be able to mori if you only caged a survivor. THAT IS ALL THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. Changing the description of the offering might affect other things too. It makes more sense to just have cages not allow a mori.
I'm not ignoring what the description LITERALLY says. That's on you.
CAGE IS NOT A HOOK. It consumes a hook state but it is not a hook. If it were, then all hook effects would work. Either they all work or none do. There should be no exceptions. And yes, Ivory/Ebony states you need to be HOOKED for it to take effect. If a cage is not a hook for everything else, why is it suddenly count as a hook here?
I agree but this is an entirely different discussion. This is about cages and mori. That's it.
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if it counts as being hooked pop bbq ds and bt should all proc as well. how can you have one and not any others?? its common sense. its stupid to have one thing work but not anything else. Survivors are deprived of protection out of the cage and the killers is deprived bps and gens control but he can mori you out of the cage its just silly.
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@DudeDelicious ah so you're on about the couple of seconds from hook travel time? that's honestly nothing. besides, the time saved on the surv's part from nearly being able to instantly save across the map far outweighs the time saved from not having to carry the surv. not to mention, the map pressure you surrender in doing this
again, his built in mori is extremely situational as to whether it helped or not and will most of the time shave off a few seconds from hooking
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I just tried to phonecall Logic. It didn't answer.
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