Cage of Atonement
Hello, after the past couple of days playing killer and survivor in red ranks I have seen many people playing Pyramid Head very similarly and to much annoyance of the survivors.
I'm by no means a survivor main, if anything I'm much more a killer main, but the new Cage of Atonement mechanic seems very, I don't really know what I want to say, but it just seems to enable a crappy play style that most people dont find enjoyable to play against.
Firstly I do like that its a powerful tool against DS and the like, this helps killers a ton against SWF especially. The thing I am noticing though is that almost every pyramid head who uses cage, immediately just moves to the cages location to tunnel whoever they just caged. This is almost every PH game for me at purple and red ranks mind you.
One thing I think they could maybe change that would address this without removing the ability (since I do find it very helpful countering certain perks) is to maybe remove the Killers ability to see where the cage is sent. Only allow survivors to see it, and further do not reward as many points for caging a survivor rather than hooking them normally. That way in incentivizes killers to actually go for hooks and not just cage every time.
To add to it, maybe you can create a rare add-on that would allow the killer to see where the cage goes after its placed, but to keep it in their base kit just creates a very toxic / un-fun play style to go against. Of course this is just my opinion though, was wondering other peoples thoughts on this.
Comments
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Literally, the exact reason I wanted the ability to see cages removed.
I posted the the first day, first hour of the PTB because I knew this was going to be an issue.
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Im just prepared for him to get nerfed into the ground like every other paid killer ... They start of strong, then they devalue it to "meh" levels ... so go ahead, im still going to play him. Im desensitized at this point.
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I don't want to see him nerfed to the ground at all. We need more strong killers, I'm just not a fan of the cage mechanic and the play style it brings is all.
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They never "just adjust" a mechanic. If anything they will probably put cages on a cool down, then make it so that if he has a cage up he cant lay more trenches, then blind PH to cages and narrow his blast radius. GG EZ fixed killer, then in 6 months.. buff him again. If not give him a whole new rework ... Money well earned.
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They have adjusted killers before, Freddy, Legion, Nurse. You don't need to completely gut a killer to "fix" them. A simple change of not allowing PH to see his cage would make a big difference I believe.
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Like i said, im waiting for the nerf bat I dont care one way or another.
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Let me get this straight. You want to remove his ability to see his caged survivor AND reward less BP for caging in attempt to DISCOURAGE the Killer from using his power? A power that's already very situational / usually detrimental to the killer to use in normal gameplay (IE, not wasting time by bee-lining across the entire map to a cage that has likely spawned next to another survivor anyways).
Those are... uh... quite the suggestions. You should go work for BHVR, I'm sure you would fit right in. Hey killers, stop using your power or you're punished!
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You are greatly exaggerating and misconstruing what my original post was talking about. The killer can use his power, im not saying to not use it, what I'm saying is right now almost every PH is caging, the immediately running to the cage. It doesn't matter if its "situational" if the majority of PH are playing this way. Like you said, its their ability so why not use it? The problem is the issues this ability brings, its basically a free BBQ, and allows the killer to tunnel immediately while ignoring DS and the like.
This ability is strong against DS and SWF though, so simply removing his sight of it would drastically reduce the tunneling aspect of it which is what a lot of people are having issues with, not so much the ability itself.
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Please elaborate. Where did I exaggerate? "Only allow survivors to see it, and further do not reward as many points for caging a survivor rather than hooking them normally. That way in incentivizes killers to actually go for hooks and not just cage every time". Your words, not mine.
"This ability is strong against DS and SWF though, so simply removing his sight of it would drastically reduce the tunneling aspect of it which is what a lot of people are having issues with, not so much the ability itself."
Great, you even further reduced PH's ability to do one of the core concepts of killer; guarding your objectives (Survivors in the "Hooked" state in this case). Something that PH is already poor at EVEN if he is hard tunneling across the entire map to a caged survivor who may or may not have spawned next to a teammate. That is the crux of the issue; you're proposing a reduction of map pressure to a killer who already has low map pressure / non-existant mobility tools. The survivors will know for 100% certain that an unhook is safe, every time. And that is the elimination of all pressure from a cage. What you're proposing is a straight nerf, both to PH's that tunnel off of cage and those who don't.
Why beat around the bush? The real issue is that neither Survivor nor Killer get any mileage out of hook perks from cages, despite the game being balanced to some degree around hook perks from the start. If even one survivor has an obsession perk, DS must be played around as if they all did. Even if no survivors have Borrowed Time, it must be played around as if they all do. Even if the Killer doesn't have BBQ & Chili, it must be played around as if he does. That is how the game is balanced, and cages wildly skew this.
I get that the devs might have wanted shake up the meta or make something different, but "this ain't it chief". Nobody asked for this and I don't think either side is happy with cage mechanics.
Let the survivors enjoy their safety blanket of DS / BT / We'll Make It and let Killers get their BBQ stacks / Pop-Goes-the-Weasel procs. Usually the simplest solution is the correct one; allow all hook perks and mechanics to work on cages.
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In what way is it a free BBQ? If it is anything it is a free escape. The killer sends the survivor to the other side of the map, ussually there are already survivors. So if survivors arent focusing on the gen and actually rescue the person in the cage there is no way ph can arrive first at the cage.
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I agree with a lot of what you are saying. More killers need more map pressure to be able to compete in the higher ranks, I 100% agree. However in this situation all this part of his power does is enable an incredibly frustrating play style that no one likes to go against.
I mean free BBQ in the sense that he gets to see where the hook spawns, and knows "well thats where im headed next because thats where the survivors have to go." In a normal hook the killer can camp sure, but they will obviously lose if they stick around, this also gives the killer the choice of guarding the hook to secure a kill, or go pressure generators. At the moment his ability just tells him where he needs to go next to secure either another hit or tunnel, there's no more decision.
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I understand, but I don't agree.
Most survivors that are sent to the naughty box are place right next to, or close to, another survivor. This usually means a survivor can safely help their buddy and get out. If a Pyramid Head gets to him at the same time or before a survivor does, the survivor can either wait for him to leave or complete gens if he's being facecamped.
I don't know if making him unable to see his caged survivors would really be fair. If it's really a big problem that the community agrees on, then maybe add a barrier to the survivor that prevents him from being close to them. Add the ability to stop someone from being caged. Make cages and hooks separate. Punish the killer for going after people who just got uncaged.
Personally I haven't experienced the players you talk about, so it honestly could be an isolated thing. Or something like a face camping bubba; annoying but can be dealt with.
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Of course you are right, in a SWF composition this would be the case, but you know how solo queue is. I think his power is extremely helpful against SWF, but too overbearing for solo queue since survivors will not be communicating and coordinating with each other. It's kinda similar to the whole Mori situation, "I think this is a 4 man SWF so I'm going to try hard and mori them", when in reality its just a group of randos.
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Yeah, this is all just my opinion after all, from two days of non-stop PH games in red ranks. Ultimately we will have to wait and see how things develop and turn out, but atm its been a non-stop tunnel fest almost every game and that's not fun for anyone other than the killer.
I've been seeing way more disconnects to and suicide on hooks because as soon as one person gets caged, and they see PH going right for the same person a lot of people just give up and don't want to play against that.
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