BEhaviour, you need a new balance director and staff
I won't make a long post so i'll say this, he say NONSENSE about balance, he say rank 20 stuff, and say clown is underrathed simply proves how ignorant he is about his own balance/game.
We need new devs and please better ones than the ones you have, yours creat bugs on every patch and don't listen to feedback at all, the most recent one i believe you listened to was when you wanted to nerf Myers when he was perfectly fine as is and also his add-ons were doing perfectly what they said it should do and apparently it was a bug.
We are more than 28K players every single day playing your ######### broken buggy glitchy game, we know balance more than you ######### do. listen to us for ######### sake and get new competent devs, the ones you have are really incompetent, no programmers should keep their jobs when they make mistakes and bugs every single patch when it should fix the game.
Do the right thing, get new experimented staff, and balance the game how it should be made, there's perks, there's servers and there's gameplay features that need to be fixed, ######### fix your game.
Comments
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I won't disagree. Let's not forget, the same person who said "Clown is underrated and people (with thousands of hours in the game and actual experience) haven't found his power" is also the person who thought it was a good idea to intentionally make it so stunning a killer with a pallet when they were picking up a survivor didn't require timing back in the day.
He's not fit for his job, really. Just a string of bad decisions.
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Not a single helpful sentence in this whole rant.
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If you know how to balance the game so well, then what should be changed?
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Let me guess: You've just watched @SpaceCoconut latest video.
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They aren't saying they know how; but at least they aren't pretending they know how.
I mean, BHVR has this HUGE resource in Fog Whisperers (the biggest scam for free advertising EVER, btw) that have thousands upon thousands of hours of experience combined. You'd think they would use those resources for consultation with these types of matters, but nah. That would be too logical.
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Clown might be weak, but he IS underratet.
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If you say the game is imbalanced, then you know things that need to be fixed. I'm not going to say a game is imbalanced and then someone ask me what's imbalanced and my response is "idk".
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We know balance more than you
Ok?
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That's not how things work. You can see imbalance in an asymmetrical game without knowing a fix for it. Hello, welcome to Dead by Daylight. You must be new.
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@DudeDelicious how underrated is clown as a BigBrainClownMain? on a scale of 1 (criminally) to 10 (overrated to all hell)?
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He's also the guy who thought Spirit shouldn't be able to see survivors. He's made good choices too, but those don't seem to be brought up quite as often... One of those good choices is the willingness to admit he was wrong, which is why now you can't stun a killer mid-animation. Sometimes things don't work out the way you thought, ######### happens.
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What Behaviour needs is a functional pipeline for external feedback, because the developers have been working so long on this game that they are myopic about its biggest institutionalized issues.
My cynical assumption is that a) the community management team is not acting as an effective conduit for surfacing community sentiment trends to the dev team (which is normally one of the most critical parts of a community manager's job), and b) Behaviour has never engaged external consultation on their game beyond a very small pool of high-level players/influencers, which -- while very useful in some ways -- is a way-too-narrow perspective to be actionable for this game's myriad legacy issues.
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So, the shoplifter at Wal Mart got caught stealing a t-shirt. But they shouldn't be held accountable because they've also made good choices in their life. Also - speaking of spirit, he thought it was also a good idea for the original Prayer Beads to exist in their former form, as well as collision during phasing. The more you ignore the other half to the same story you try to tell, the more you appear as a shill.
Your logic. And it's broken. Next.
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They do this, or at least that's my assumption based on seeing some Fog Whisperers talk about visiting Behaviour and giving feedback on upcoming stuff. This is useful, but that kind of consultation alone provides only a very narrow perspective on specific things. These are also primarily fans/skilled players of the game, not experienced consultants. It's a vastly different skill set.
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No, that's your strawman. My logic is that if we're going to judge whether or not he should be replaced (like it's even up to us, but whatever), we should look at his work as a whole instead of focusing on the bits that confirm whatever certain people want.
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honestly I have no idea why their balance team will not talk with actual skilled people who knows how to play and behave in a game. This balance team and their testers are a serius joke im sorry but they are. I know its really hard to balance this game its really is and adding more and more chapters and mid patches makes it even more harder, but so just hire more people for balance maybe ?
Why the hell I dont see any posts from them on forums where people can put actual feedback how they should proceed with balances changes - yes there will be tons of useless posts about amongst them there will be tons of useful posts from actual killers or survivors who knows what they are talking about.
And why they are not working with actual streamers or Youtubers - not talking with clowns, but with skilled and helpful players who are seriously doing great job and teaching people how to play the game.. Their feedback would be really great so no idea why not just talk with them and listen.Maybe this has already happened, but I dont see in game such big impact. Dont tell me that they cant just make quick and good adjustements to killers.
Or why in the hell they are making utterly useless perks and then 6 months later they are saying yeah ok we have a reports that no one is using them. Player with even normal inteligence instantly know if perk is meta, op, #########, trash, situational, niche.
Once again people dont want meta perks, they want funny perks, survivors or killers. So incompetence....
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And we've heard former fog whisperers (such as Edgar after they gave him the shaft for KEKWing a tweet) state that they do NEXT TO NOTHING with that feedback.
Even the non fog whisperers they talk to who are just knowledgeable, they warned them about the Midwich map months ago, and nothing was done. Ask Scott.
So no, asking, and using as a resource are two different things.
It's not a strawman. It's a metaphorical argument using the very same logic you used. What's the matter? Don't like it when it's used against you? (and much more efficiently, I may add).
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Just because you say it's not a strawman doesn't stop it from being one, but OK.
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@SloppyKnockout It would probably be a way different story if they actually hired a consultancy for a real engagement that they were paying money for. I would bet anything that past Fog Whisperer visits have been pro bono, beyond travel/lodging. This makes good sense for Behaviour because it encourages ongoing evangelizing of the game by its top players (since it comes across to the Fog Whisperers as some fun special treatment and a chance to talk to the devs). But to invoke The Dark Knight, Fog Whisperers aren't the heroes they need right now.
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Did you add one in your comment?
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The Devs are doing a good job. DBD is more balanced than it's ever been as far as I can tell. Given that they add new killers all the time, and each killer has different abilities, balancing the game is far more complex than you'd expect. And given how often they update the game -- much of it, free updates I might add, with characters who can often be bought with in-game currency--you expect bugs to occur. Even Triple A games aren't bug-free. They also take a lot of user feedback into consideration, too. A lot of people think they know what game balance is, but they don't take both sides into consideration when they do.
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@KingFrost "Even Triple A games aren't bug-free"
how long does the bug stays there tho? i mean a finished game of course, not a game like anthem, i mean a real game, like overwatch or COD MW and God of War, when there's bugs, how long to they stay there? and how many do they add after fixing bugs?
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I would argue, based entirely on my observations over the last 2 years, that Dead by Daylight has one of the least effective user feedback pipelines I have ever seen in a modern video game. Yes, balance is a difficult thing even for a game developer (evidence: look at any competitive game that exists), and all the doofy armchair designers on the forums aren't any help at all here. But this has as much (if not more) to do with institutionalized game issues (UI/UX, new player experience, harmful player behaviors, road map prioritization, etc.) as it does with balance.
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New bugs happen all the time with patches in Triple A games. RDR2 definitely comes to mind. Their latest patch created a whole new set of issues.
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This. Every piece of software you are currently using, or have ever used, has bugs. 100% of it. The difference between a more polished game and a less polished game is the bug reporting process, how they prioritize, and what their pipeline looks like for addressing bugs. It should never shock anyone that a new patch introduces new bugs for unexpected things, because software development is a weird process. That's just how it works.
You notice it more in DBD because the QA process is probably really suboptimal and mostly limited to catastrophic "this crashes the game" caliber bugs, given the very short time between major content releases.
A more jaundiced way of looking at it is "they build in as little QA budget as they think they can get away with." As long as they're continuing to see healthy player numbers and money on this game, they don't necessarily have a compelling reason to change their process unless there is strong advocacy from within.
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Well I'm personally not very happy with him because of the Legion changes and the pig changes.
I can at least see that he's a somewhat trying.
However that doesn't excuse the travesty of the Howling grounds event yeah considering that was intentional I'm not letting it go.
I don't think he needs to be fired but he's seriously needs to review his balance policies
To use a funny analogy my friends normally use.
if we're in a car are driving across the road and all of us see a deer and tell you to stop but you keep telling us no don't worry it's just a cat sooner or later we're going to hit it and see if it's a deer or a cat.
A large majority of people have been making arguments that this is not a right decision to go in or that something needs addressing to which it seems to just get tossed aside saying it's fine. (Legion Pig Clown all come to mind) honestly at this stage a serious balancing review is in order
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Also: I believe that a major part of the problem, in terms of Behaviour's poor track record with external feedback, is that they are a completely walled garden. Dead by Daylight is both developed and published by them, so they have no concerned outside party in their ear saying "maybe you should get this looked at" or straight-up forcing the issue.
This isn't something nefarious or anything like that, but good intentions can silently go bad and perspectives can really get warped when one person or entity has 100% controlling interest in an end product. At the risk of derailing the topic (please don't chime in to push it that way), I would point to the Star Wars prequel trilogy as a good comparison point, because that was where George Lucas said "the entire process is now 100% mine," and no healthy dissenting voice could convince him that there were serious issues with his product.
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First BHVR needs people who know how to write a working netcode. Then they need servers with a modern tickrate. Then they can think about balance when all stats can be trustworthy...
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Lmao thought so
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The devs do listen. I believe the issue is the devs need to reorder their priorities. I like the new chapter, but it should have been put off for a bit due to how much bugs it's created. Not to mention there are bugs that have been in the game for quite a long time that need to be fixed. I believe they should focus on cleaning up their code and put off the roadmap for a while for the sake of the longevity of the game. If they want consistent cash flow, they could leave that to cosmetics.
I also agree with @Rydog that there are factors integrated into the game that affect it's health. The new player experience can be absolutely abysmal and community toxicity isn't helping. I also believe that the amount of grind you need to do to get good builds for killers is unrealistic and forces you to waste bloodpoints on killers you may not want to. These are the issues that affect the longevity of the game. Sure, a new chapter will reinvigorate the fanbase, but having a smooth running, well-balanced game with reasonable grind will keep it going long term.
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What perks do you run on Clown?
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im just curious, what sort of mistakes do you see or hear people playing clown make? i always felt like how to use clown's power was obvious, just learning how to do it right takes time and learning the survivors you face. so where is it people tend to go wrong? why do people underestimate and underrate the clown?
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How should people like you, who cant even understand the meaning of underrated, claim to have more understanding of balance than a dev? Hilarious.
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Balance isn't easy. A lot of balance is done through trial and error. I think clown 1vs1 is underrated, but he as killer is not underrated. he doesn't have mobility, he has no global pressure on the map when chasing a survivor (such as pig head traps) and he has no real stealth potential or heighten mindgame potential, you always know where he is at all times. They really need his reload bug, Billy bugs and sound bugs.
I think Trail of Torment answer in Q&A stream was dumbest answer I've heard in long time. When ghostface activates his power and your terror radius, Using your own game sense, you can induce that Ghostface activated his power. Highlighting a yellow generator is hand holding the survivor hand. Just for reference, Pig's meta build rank 1 is Monitor+Whispers and part of the reason for that is to be able to look at bottom icon for when whisper activate and than to use Monitor to lower your base TR to optimize your crouching. You don't need Trail of Torment on Pig. Survivors should need to learn how to pan their camera and pay attention to their surroundings to avoid stealth. The current version of Trail of Torment isn't usable on any killer until that yellow generator part is gone. If there is a killer that can use the perk, It might be Leatherface with his 1 shot but anyone can see it coming right now. Sometimes, you just wonder what Ethan was thinking when he designed this perk. Deathbound has similar problem because many survivors usually heal when they're next generator, so this oblivious effect will not activates if the survivor knows where to heal.
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Insults towards the Developers of the game are not going to be tolerated, especially not on their own forum!
There is an entire team of professionals who are working on all aspects of the game, it is not one persons decision - these people are experienced and very good at their jobs.
I understand that you might not agree with all the decisions that are made within the game, but I trust in the knowledge of the Developers as they know what is better for their game. And whilst we do appreciate suggestions and feedback from the Community and these are taken into consideration you must understand that those suggestions are not always conducive to the game. The Developers make their decisions based on many years of knowledge and experience.
We do appreciate that people get frustrated with the bugs at the moment, and this is something we are working on but with a live game, sadly these things do happen and they are fixed as quickly as possible with hotfixes which come out relatively regularly and have done even through a pandemic which has seen people being displaced from their office environments and required to work from their homes remotely - yet still everything has been released on schedule due to the tremendous efforts of everyone involved.
Sorry that none of that meets your expectations!
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