To the Team.
I am going to start out by stating I have been unable to find the same "magic" (I guess I'll call it) I've had before with DBD, may be it is just time for me to move on and either find another game or it could be time too give up gaming in general.... but time to move on too the hard stuff and this could potentially be difficult to discuss.
I made the choice to check on some DBD news knowing that the event was close and I discovered a letter from the team discussing "equal representation" and "giving sexual orientation" to the characters. Now IMO this is a poor move by the team because of the RPG element that this game currently has... maybe BHVR you can do this right but it has been done wrong many times before, the latest example is "The Last of Us 2", the players hate this game. Another example is "Batwoman" the tv series on CW. the batwoman tv series is an example of the saying "get woke, go broke", in just one season the show lost 1million viewers because of how hard they pushed the agenda. I really don't want to see a game that I am trying to get back into become a "Batwoman" or "TLOU 2" and seeing that letter set off a red flare telling me not to play because of where this game could be going, neither batwoman or "TLOU2" show "equal representation" please don't be like them!
Side note: I am also upset you released the event cosmetics to everyone. A portion of the community explained why they didn't want this to happen and since this move has happened you should mine as well release "legacy" to everyone. Players, especially the hardcore players want recognition..... if everyone is a winner what is there to actually play for?
that is all and as I said this may not be easy to discuss but it does need to be discussed, both choices could be signs of BHVR moving in a poor direction.
Comments
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The players do not hate TLOU2. The haters hate it.
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Agree
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I'm pretty sure the game having a player rating of like 4 possibly lower shows that the players hate the game.... I mean pewdiepie hates it as well.
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TLOU2 hardly had any of it, sure there was the relationship between Ellie and Dina but we already knew Ellie was into girls in the first game and nobody had a problem with it.
There was also a transgender character (no it was not Abby), but it was a very minor detail that I didn't even pick up on until I read their wiki article.
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I do not care what pewdiepie or any youtuber thinks. TLOU2 is a massive success and most people who played it love it. It just got review bombed like many other games before by people who did not play it at all.
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The gameplay is little to no different then the first and the storytelling is absolute garbage and the only reason why its a success is because of its name, same reason why NFL and NBA games are a succes... people have been looking forward to TLOU2 and yes it is a massive let down IMO everyone who've I've seen played the has hated it.
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Same, "equal representation" is good imo but companies need to find ways to not shove agenda down our throats.
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I cant understand why people defend companies with their representation pandering. In reality the company does not care about you they only want your money, and the whole representation crap is about driving up sales by appealing to a specific audience. And the best part is you cant criticize them about it or your a homophobic white supremacist.
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What agenda is being shoved down our throats?
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In reality the company does not care about you they only want your money, and the whole representation crap is about driving up sales by appealing to a specific audience.
Yes, that's how capitalism works. Companies do things to appeal to specific audiences to drive up sales and make money.
And the best part is you cant criticize them about it or your a homophobic white supremacist.
No, but it's just that when you have a problem with LGBT pandering and not heterosexual pandering, it does seem a little weird. No idea where white supremacy comes into play, but OK.
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But I heard "get woke, go broke". If it rhymes, it can't be wrong. 🙄
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It's funny how this excuse comes up every single time a supposedly "woke" product becomes incredibly popular and makes a ######### ton of money instead of "going broke" (Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, etc.), yet it doesn't seem to apply to other equally famous franchises like Ghostbusters, which people were also looking forward to because the first one was a great movie. Maybe it's just that there's a loud minority that doesn't like certain things in movies and video games, but the silent majority can recognize a good story when they see one.
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SPOILERS!
I don't think that players bothers with LGBT in games. I think the problem with the TLOS 2 was that the game force you to play as character that most players hate it, just because she [spoilers]
And also for most players the ending of the game was disappointing and not satisfying.
And some players also hate this game because very important character in the series dies.
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Didn't they leak the ending and the Special characters death before the game even came out?
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Characters deaths were true, but some leaks of the stories were false.
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tHeY’Re gOnNA aDd gAYs. nOt mY wAfIU kAtE oH gOD.
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Bruh I'm more worried about David being confirmed straight D:
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The gay agenda, of course.
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It was a huge waste of my money. The story was absolutely awful. And forcing me to kill uninfected dogs? Ill pass, thank you. Gameplay wise it was only a marginal improvement on the first.
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Wonder Woman was not a "woke" movie. "Woke" movies try to shove an agenda down your throat. Wonder Woman did not. It was a great movie about a badass woman kicking ass and taking names.
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I also dislike tlou2 (what I have seen from it in let's plays), but I have already dislike tlou. In my eyes, they try always weird storyways that are not appealing to me.
But one thing I need to say: Why need people that dislike a game, to buy the game in the first place?
Where is the sense in buying something that you dislike for whatever reason?
Every game can today be watched via streams, or let's plays. There is no need to buy something to make yourself a opinion of it.
I have also not buy rockstar games for a long time, because I do not like to have another launcher on my system and I really dislike how they behave towards modders and YouTubers. Somebody really need to teach them the "powers of writing letters and using phones", instead of people that harass those guys at home, far as I have heard.
And yes, I know "if you buy or not buy their games, it doesn't matter at the end of the day" and this is right, but you know... If there would not be so much housemade to criticize, they could have made a little bit more money and that should always be the target of a company.
Edit: With my critic about their story I have not aim at the lesbian relationship of the maincharacter. My critic goes there a bit deeper as this one.
Post edited by Talmeer on2 -
"How dare they have equal representation in a video game! If I can't personally identify as a character, how am I supposed to play as them!? I mean I expect LGBT people to play as characters they can't identify with. BUT THAT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT!"
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That's not what I heard before its release. People always seem to forget that there was major outcry about how Wonder Woman was an "SJW film" and whatnot. Even so, it doesn't address the major point, which is that the exceptions to the "get woke, go broke" slogan are dismissed as just being part of franchises that are "too big to fail".
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Lmao I’m sorry but I played it and thought it was garbage. Beautiful graphics and gameplay. But they could’ve done something way better with the story 🤷
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Exactly and the worse part is that the small percentage that the companies are attempting to attract dont even support the product... there's few "woke" products that have done well but they needed a big name like "marvel" and "TLOU" to do well.
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I liked tlou 2 just hated the ending, haters gonna hate, some people start moving with influencers, like "I hate this game" then the followers also hate it because of their supreme leader.
Tlou 2 linked tlou 1 more than people think, remember how Ellie talks about her fears on tlou 1? Most people don't, remember that on the left behind DLC, Ellie can kiss Riley? Most people don't.
Most don't realize that Joel (as much as I love his character) he is not an angel, the reason why Abby was behind him was because of what Joel did to her father, which in terms on story was on self defense coming from Joel, if you get close to the dr on part 1, he will try to stab you.
I just hate that they force you to like Abby when clearly I give no damn about her.
But I still don't hate the game.
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i mean the last of us 2 had a bad story, but i don't feel like it was due to pushing an agenda, at least not the lgbt stuff. Ellie liked girls before this game, we knew that (if you played the dlc) and no one had a problem then.
as for this game, is it relevant? no. but neither is literally any of the story for any character. none of that matters gameplay wise. but the story is there, it has been since the game's released. and as @Orion has pointed out many times, heterosexual relationships has been put in the game since Nurse came out. and now that the original character's stories are being expanded by quite a bit, i don't see why some of them can't turn out to be gay or bi or pan or asexual or whatever. and they could just make new characters who fit into those. and thats just fine by me.
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Two sides of the same coin, these people. You're either an "SJW trying to force an agenda" or you're just a "phobic hater."
I wish people could just like or dislike something and not be accused of it having anything to do with politics. I haven't personally played the game myself, but I've heard how the story kind of goes and can understand why people would find it underwhelming. Can I personally say that I hate it? No, I haven't played it, but it's pretty pathetic to just disregard anybody who dislikes something as a "hater."
Eh, these people will always be, like I said, "two sides of the same coin." It isn't beneath some people unfortunately to be hypocritically closed-minded. :|
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I know I just posted, so this might be a little redundant, but don't let the reductionist commenters get to you. I know what you're saying isn't just "don't add the LBGTs into my games!" You don't like the agenda-pushing and I can respect it.
There's plenty of people like this that just don't like the game:
I think it's just utterly sad when people try to water something down just to try to attack a strawman instead of actually make a real argument, like this:
Not everybody who dislikes something is just a "hater."
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Topic creator literally complained about equal representation. Don't think anyone's strawmanning anything here.
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Indeed. One side wants to be afforded the same representation that the other already gets, whereas the other doesn't want that and thinks representation of groups other than their own is "political" or "agenda-pushing" and shouldn't be done.
Two sides of the same coin, definitely.
Post edited by Orion on2 -
What do you mean with this?
I have take a clear position against tlou2 and also against another developer. Both with a reason. Was tlou2 not explained enough? Or whas it because I have nothing write to the original subject of the thread, aka. the sexual orientation by bhvr dbd characters?
I think most of the people will not care about the sexual relationships and orientations of their dbd characters, if bhvr shows that not via ingame scenes, or ingame videos.
If the majority of the playerbase ever think about it, they will imo assume that they have the same orientation as the player itself. No matter what they write about it in some text.
I have bhvr criticized very often in the past and I bet I will do it also in the future, because well... It's behavior we talk about here and they are seem not to be happy, if someone gots not mad at the end of day, I guess after all the things the have change and nerf in the past.
But at the moment I think, there are more important problems in dbd, as the sexual orientation of a ingame character.
What tlou matters, so I think it has a bad story because you damn humanity at the end of part 1 to another infinite cycle of living with the illness that takes place there.
Imo, the only thing that has naughty dog made right with Joel's story is the thing they show then in part 2 of tlou (to avoid to name spoilers I talk about it on this way).
I haven't seen yet everything of tlou2, since the YouTuber I follow for this has not finished the game, but this part on the story has always suck for me and also that the tlou2 maincharacter goes now on rampage because the thing that had happened to Joel.
I would have preferred if they write a story where the characters work on saving the world and not on letting the earth suffer even more.
Post edited by Talmeer on0 -
Okay so the thing with the whole "haters gonna hate" is atm theres a petition (which most likely won't do anything) with over 50k signatures and growing on it for a remake of the story of "TLOU2" but yes we're all haters because we know ND can do better then what they did...
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Hey, first impressions are a thing... example the movie "joker" when I saw teasers for it I got the impression that the movie was going to bomb and when it came out I ended going to see it 3 times in theaters.... another example is captain marvel where I got hyped because she was supposed to be this major character in "infinity war" and when it came i found i wasted my money on the worse movie in the MCU..
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Yeah. That's my point. You're against it and you don't care about the "sexual relationships" as you put it. That's simply what I mean with this.
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And there you are again proving you're incapable of taking criticism of something you like, and would instead assume the feelings of your enemy.
Indeed two sides of the same coin.
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Mmmm, no, he's complaining about the media being lackluster as a result of inclusion being the first thing considered rather than story. He literally said that equal representation can be done well, but that he's worried because it's been done wrong many many times before. Seriously just read the post before you start making up stories lmfao
I'd love for anybody to show me a quote where the OP is saying "I don't like TLOU2 because it's diverse and I don't like equal representation."
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I'm not assuming anything, that's what's being explicitly said over and over. If anything, I'm assuming people are being truthful.
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You are either refusing to see the nuance here or you're just incapable of seeing it. The OP specifically said that they think it can be done well, but they're worried that it won't be. I don't know where you're reading "I don't want diversity in my games keep it out I hate it," or anything of that sort. He even says that he doesn't think the two examples (Batwoman/TLOU2) are equally representative either, so where in all that is he saying anything about not wanting any equal representation in his media? I'd love for you to find me that quote.
Until then, sure. Try to demonize people if it helps you sleep at night.
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Slight misunderstanding here: I'm not talking about the OP in this thread, but the overall complaints about giving LGBT characters the same treatment as non-LGBT characters.
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Well I'm referring to people like the ones I quoted, literally trying to act like the OP is just plain old saying "I just hate diversity and it has no place in any media."
It's that kind of attitude that makes people actually take up attitudes like that, because they feel like that's all the other side cares about: their agenda.
I just think people need to stop demonizing each other when they obviously aren't trying to be hateful. Some people just need some discussion to set their mind on the right path and like I said, just calling somebody buzzwords and trying to lump them in with people that are actually crappy is just... Divisive, simply put.
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I agree with you 100% here. Very well stated.
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The only reason it's a conversation we need to have is because people like you still don't get it. This isn't about you, this isn't about being "woke," this isn't some conspiracy against straight white guys. It's just a minor little thing (to you) so that people who aren't straight white guys get a little nod to their existence.
There's no reason this should put you off at all. Did you start a thread complaining that this game forced you to play a woman character from time to time? It sometimes makes you play a character with glasses. Sometimes, some of the player characters are even... black. How does it affect you, in any way whatsoever, that here and there we might see a nod to a character who is gay or transgender? How does that affect you in any way that the other representation doesn't?
I'm sure there's a million whatever excuses and "oh BHVR doesn't really care" whatevers but the short answer is - it doesn't affect you at all. So what, exactly, is the problem? My suspicion is that it lies with you and not the game.
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Except that's exactly what the OP was complaining about. It's fine if you don't like TLOU2 because you think the story is weak. How is that relevant at all to an effort by BVHR to introduce some non-binary representation into their game? It's fine if you think some shows don't do a good job of representation. How is that relevant at all to saying DbD is making a mistake by trying to introduce more diversity to their roster?
The OP wasn't saying, "here's a suggestion of how to do representation right," he's literally saying "maybe you can do it right but I don't want you to even try because other people did it in a way I don't like." Not to mention, the only example provided of it being done "wrong" or "distasteful" to him is some meme-y slogan that doesn't really have any bearing on anything.
We can go around in circles about who's being the unconstructive snowflake but I haven't seen anybody offer anything except variations on "if you make me think about it you're pushing some vague and undefined agenda and that's bad."
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I'm fine with it, as long as they don't make it their "personalty" because being LGBT is not a personality, and people who think so don't know what being LGBT means (i'm not a part of the LGBT community, but I don't like forced representation in any media, and the LGBT community is THE thing these days as a "look, we have a gay character, that mean we are very progressive!")
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Yeah, it'd be nice if it didn't have to be "forced" (by who? or is this the gay mafia again?). It would also be nice if having representation didn't signify some sort of political or social stance. Unfortunately that's not the world we live in, and I'd rather companies and producers err on the side of hurting the feelings (?) of cisgender gamers or media consumers who view any steps towards a more inclusive environment with an honestly weird level of skepticism and hostility.
No, being LGBT is not a personality. However for a number of LGBT individuals their status and pride in it is integral to their personality. It's not really up to you to decide how an LGBT person should act, and it's not really something you should feel the responsibility to approve or disprove of.
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Quotes please.
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Well, if you mean with this that I am against the tlou franchise as a whole and that I think that I wish the bhvr team would look more on the important things of the game like balance, bugs and maybe better if they can bring back some fun to some killer characters then we have finally understand :).
But with that I have not "attack a strawman". I have just say that I dislike a other franchise and that there should be more important things to do.
I think the mods of this forums know that I often criticize the game development for the things I think that they running wrong :).
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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ITS JUST A GAME 🤬
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No. To reiterate, I'm pointing out that not everybody is hating on it just to hate on it.
I quoted you as an example of people who have genuine criticism.
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