Survivors are OP. Killers aren't.

Almost any perk has the potential to be game changing if the right circumstances are given

• Pop
• Corrupt
• Almost any hex perk
• Im all ears
• STBFL
• Gen aura perks

Etc etc

I never said killer perks are OP, but saying their perks are not game changing (because I am a firm believer that every perk can be) is just a stretch, specially saying that survivor perks are.

I disagree.

'Killers can control the pace and have more advantages over survivors.' This right here only applies to A) low ranks and B) weaker groups. Killers can only control the pace if they outmatch the survivor group by a fair margin, or if the group makes continuous mistakes.

In high ranks, where survivors 'usually' know how to loop, spread out gens, and effectively waste killer time? The roles are reversed. It's the killer that has to play by the pace of survivors, not the other way around. Just look at how fast early gens go. Two can pop before the second hook, easy, when against competent survivors. Killers are always working against the clock, which again, is set by survivors.

DS is complained about because it gives 60 seconds of hook immunity. I can go through a chase, hook somebody, break two pallets, PoP a gen, and pull a survivor out of a locker, and still get hit with DS. Outright tunneling? It's good for. But when it allows for objective progression with a safety net? That's the issue.

Face camping is a strategy. It's cheap, yes, but a strategy. Remember, killing is the objective of the killer. They're punished in points, but it is their objective. Though, I figure you don't play killer all that often, if you brought up 'they should be punished in BP.' They are.

Survivors earn less points in a trial because it's 4v1. Killer is the harder role, since you're juggling four people, their objective, and the time pressure placed on them.

Probably you are just getting bad killers, or you are just good, because I know some people that have about 600 h in the game, playing survivor most of the time, but still not getting to rank one even once, because they get camped, tunneled or just killed by a killer that knows how to play the game.

whenever it's not possible to get hit all this across, you can have the balls to repeat that again, killer mains

it's already known it's because of the killer priority with hits and their connection, they can hit you across the map, if it was a server thng devs wouldnt be reworking it to make it server view prioritized

Man dat game changing monstrous shrine, game changing thanatophobia and game changing iron grasp.

The only perks that killers have that would actually be worthy of the title "game changing" would be:

Pop

STBFL, PWYF on certain killers, Surveillance on certain killers.

Hexperks if not found but on many maps totems are still not hidden well.

We have so much useless crap that would never get picked if this wasn't a non-competitive game in the first place.

Same goes for survivors who have perks that basically amount to additional HOOKSTATES which is the best a perk can get, stuff like Babysitter and repressed alliance is really actually cool but they don't find use since they are too niche while Deadhard/SB/Adrenaline/DS/BT get way more use, way easier and with way more effect.

Can always tell who has never watched Marth's Depip squad videos.

People who play better than you are OP. People who play worse are not.

Hot take, but we're all OP, we just haven't all unlocked that skill level yet :(

In seriousness, though, I think it just plays into the rigidity when dealing with the static nature of the Survivor metagame vs. the adaptive nature of the Killer metagame. With Killer, there's fundamental playstyle differences based on pick, even at optimal play with optimal loadouts, and the 1v4 player difference is balanced out by the fact that the Killer is ideally the one most able to affect the flow of the match, whereas all Survivors fundamentally play the same and the metagame is more based around individual skill and, when skill levels are optimal, loadout: at high-level play, the loadouts unfortunately do tend to more look the same for survivors because the loadouts will more often decide the outcome of high-level play.

Early game, the Killer's primary job is of course to get hooks, but a good killer also makes a secondary point of trying to make sure certain gens don't get worked with maximum effectiveness: it's why getting hooks early game is not as optimal as not getting hooks but keeping the centermost generators unfinished. It's what creates the illusion of 'gen rushing' (which is a thing that can be done if you've got a dedicated group getting lucky with toolboxes and meet-ups at the start of the match, but isn't always gen rushing when it's thought to be): once one or two gens get finished, the rest can just kind of snowball, especially if those two gens are in close clusters on the map, and ESPECIALLY if those two gens are in close clusters in the center of the map. That's the kind of metagame fluidity Survivors don't really have: it helps the late game immensely if they can score center gens, but it's up to the Killer to apply the kind of pressure to stop that, and if the Killer is applying proper pressure, all a Survivor can do is analyze the risk-reward scenario and roll with it.

I haven't played Survivor since I've come back to the game (I'm just playing it safe and going full Killer main until I'm back into the swing of it), but I never DC, I never rage, I never BM, and I no longer sympathize with the people who do, because the metagame just isn't the most dynamic thing, but I also don't get the mentality of people who see a bad experience and decide to make that experience worse for others. And even as a Killer main, I think that 'Survivors are OP' mentality that leads to toxic play doesn't really benefit anyone, not even the Killer. I'll admit that even as someone who used to fall into the trap of taking content creators like TydeTyme too seriously on this exact matter. Not because Survivors aren't - or at least can't be - OP, but because it's not stopping people from playing as intended, and if there's to be something to address this, it's on the devs to address at this point, because there's no way they haven't heard recurring sentiments of 'Killers are OP' or 'Survivors are OP': Killers and Survivors leaning into it as a reactionary response just makes the experience worse for everyone.

Sometimes I have a bad match - had one recently where a SWF of three decided to hold the game hostage for me and their teammate: not figuratively, either; I mean ten minutes and not a single gen was done. The fact that ANY skilled survivor can easily do that at the drop of a hat could make me think there's something overpowered about Survivors as a whole, but in reality I know I'm just dealing with toxic jackasses who don't like the intended mechanics and feel the excess need to abuse flaws in the game's fundamental design.

i like it that people saying survivors aren't Op skip the video. my first time watching it tho

that swf survivors in red rank no perk no item against red rank killer with add on and perks make you think.

Survivors quite explicitly control the pace of the game as the game ends when the generators are repaired. The killer cannot repair gens. If you are in a match where the killer is controlling the pace of the game then the killer has likely already won.

The truth is that a coordinated group of survivors will make mincemeat out of any killer - as it should be. That's the primary challenge for survivors - not in looping, not in hiding, not in stacking second-chances. It's working together despite the challenge of limited information. That's why solo queue survivor-ing is hard. It's also why SWFing with comms is easy, as you're just using a 3rd party app to remove what makes the game difficult - now information is not limited at all and coordination is trivial. If you use it to gain an advantage in the game, you get a tremendous advantage in the game. It's like if speed hacks were generally acceptable for killers to use for some reason.

And that's the problem and why you hear the statement so much. Survivors as a team are OP, and they should be. But, it should require all four survivors playing well for any of them to be OP. Survivors are the equivalent of Nurse - if you get it right, you should stomp. For the vast majority of games, however, there's at least one weak link, and that weak link should drag everybody down so that no survivors are OP.

Except, of course, we are cavalier about comms. So now survivor groups are either trying to play Nurse legit, or trying to play Leatherface with a speed hack. And the game, predictably, becomes impossible to balance. You want to give solo-queue survivors a leg up so that the weak link isn't so punishing? Congrats now your comm groups are invincible. Do something to survivors with the knowledge that they might be on comms? Congrats now solo queue survivors are snacks.

The problem is that they don't limit or throttle only the survivors in parties in any way. Of course, then you have a problem with lobby dodging survivors who try and team up anyway, but I think you could just increase or get creative with the lobby dodge penalty to discourage this.

I am gathering that English is not a native tongue so I admit I am having some trouble figuring out what you are saying here.

Yes, killers can end the game by killing all the survivors. What I am saying is that if you have lost the pressure of gen repair and the killer is dictating the pace of the game by killing survivors, you have likely already lost and/or are looking for the hatch. I am saying that survivors are only strong when they are able to work together, and that is the challenge of playing survivor. All comms are is a shortcut to this, whether it's two people in a party or four. You can still have a weak link in a SWF and SWF are not inherently unbeatable. Even teams on comms are not inherently unbeatable as it is up to them to utilize the tool well.

A perkless game would go about the same. It is still up to the survivors to play well together. If they do, they would generally win. If they do not, they give the killer the opportunity to win and it becomes up to the killer. This is not necessarily bad design. Comms, however are a 3rd party app that upend that balance and make it much easier for the survivors to play well together, much like a 3rd party hack would make it much easier for a killer to play well individually. You cannot fix this by buffing or nerfing survivors or killers as a group, as not every survivor team is going to be on comms; you can only fix this by nerfing survivors in a party.

When I reference a SWF group, I don't mean random people grouping up for fun, or even friends on discord just having fun without a serious need to win. Against groups like that, winning for a killer is still possible. Harder than it should be just from simple problems like coordinated knowledge of who needs to go rescue the guy on the hook, or one spine chill equating to 4 because that knowledge is insta-shared.

Even without trying hard, the game was not remotely designed with balance in mind if you include SWF.

And against SWF groups actually trying hard, which most are at red ranks, no killer can win outside of top tier. Nurse & Spirit, because they can apply so much pressure and down so quickly. If you aren't getting multiple downs and hooks per minute, against a good SWF group you will lose.

This is disgusting. And it's only gotten worse, not better.

The game is simply not balanced with four-man SWF. You get a neural network distribution of information that solo queue players don't get. It's a gargantuan advantage and simply unfair for killers.

Most of these complaints are unfounded. The biggest problem i have as a killer is that early game against good survivors doesn't exist.

It's basic math.

As soon as a match starts, killer spawns away from survivors, survivors hop on gens within 10 seconds. Takes the killer 20-40 seconds (depends on map size/shape) to walk to the other side of the map. Killer finds the first survivor. 1st part of chase lasts about 15 seconds, get a hit. Spend 15seconds just holding w to catch up to the survivor and get a second hit. If they get to a pallet, add another 15-20 seconds to break the pallet (or mind game if it is an unsafe pallet) and repeat. Now, do the math.

10 seconds (walking to first survivor, assuming small map, assuming it takes them a bit of time to hop on gens) + 15 seconds (1st hit) + 15 seconds (2nd hit) + 3 seconds (picking them up) + 5 seconds (walking to hook) + 2 seconds (hooking them) =

10 + 15 + 15 + 3 + 5 +2 = 50 seconds (assuming the survivor just held w the whole time)

Now if you add in that a survivor likely gets to 1 pallet/window during that chase, which is very likely to happen, and you have 3 gens being lost during the first chase if survivors are perfectly on gens. This is the problem with the game. Now the only way for me to come back is to camp that hook and play like a dick. There's no gens left to use pop on or any other gen regression perks, because they finished all the ones that had progress, i'm next to my 3 gen that has no progress on them, so why even bother leaving the hook?

Now you might say, i can injure that survivor and then move on to another one. This is true, but people usually bring medkits/self-care/inner strength. And that 1st hit which cost me about 30 seconds to get can be healed by survivors in almost half the time.

Unless you are playing a killer that can shorten chases and have good map pressure, forget about it. This is why nurse is so godly when played well (and why i am a nurse main). A good nurse can shorten that 50 seconds down to about 30 seconds. Suddenly the game is playable now.

Early game needs to exist again.