http://dbd.game/killswitch
Could A Future Killer Be 120% Movement Speed?
Like how would you balance for that? I think the obvious thing is that their power if they even have one must not help in chase as their movement speed is already so powerful in that department and damn near broken. So help me theory craft a way to make a killer like that work.
We already have examples in game of killers who only show their true strength when they move at a higher movement speed. PWYF Bubba and Windstorm Wraith come to mind. But one requires an add on and the other requires a perk, both also don't always have that movement speed ass both have ways to lose it. Bubba when he hits people and Wraith when he uncloaks.
I've come up with 3 different solutions but I still want to hear what other people think would be a viable way for a killer to run at that movement speed base.
Option #1
A wind up on their basic attack. So my thought process here is that if they are the fastest base movement speed killer in the game they would need a significant draw back that would pull back their actual chase potential. so what if they couldnt just swing at people when they wanted what if they had to charge up their attack? This would give survivors much needed information on what the killer is about to do and would give them time to react. My only issue with this is that if the charge time is too long even if it needs to be that long to be balanced it wont be fun to play as, and might only be frustrating for the killer and will make them not want to play as said killer.
Option #2
They are only 120% in chase, and when not in chase they are 110% or even lower. This idea kind of goes against the idea of the killer having a base movement speed but there are plenty of killers who have fluctuating movement speeds in the game already sooooooo whatevs lets run with it. BHVR seems to try and keep killers within a ballpark range on how fast a killer can get across the map. when in direct comparison killers are not that much faster or slower than one another if you run it like a race, there is obviously faster killers like legion, Nurse, or Spireh but they arent that much faster as they all have drawbacks to their speed. nurse being the slowest base movement speed killer in the game, legion having an obnoxiously long stun time on their feral frenzy, and spireh with her base speed being 110%.
I however am ignoring two killers who completely break this mold, Wraith and Billy. both of them even without add-ons right now can cross the map obnoxiously faster than any other killers in the game. They are outliers and Billy is even seeing a nerf to this area with his overheat system. with this in mind I could see a trade off with the speed being that they are much slower while out of chase.
Option #3
They have to hit a survivor 3 times to down. This option is my least favorite but it is genuenly hard to think of viable ways to make a 120% killer fair and balanced. The way this would work is that the first hit would apply deep wounds with a long timer that only goes down out of chase, the second hit would remove the deep wounds and leave the player in the injured state, then of course the 3rd hit would down the survivor. The only way I can justify this is that the killers chase times are going to be the shortest in the game without applying any powers, perks, or add-ons. this means naturally to balance it out you need to find ways to artificially slow down the killer or extend chases to better line up with the rest of the killers in the game. Again I dont like this option because even with the movement speed it will feel unfair to the player to have to hit someone 3 times even if in reality they are with the pack in down time potential and still maybe even ahead of the pack because of their speed.
Those are the three solutions I have come up with and even then I don't know if any of those or a combination of those would be balanced enough to not make the killer the best in the game automatically. Speed in this game kills, it turns killers who have very little going for them into absolute monsters in practice. That doesnt stop me from wanting to see killers that are out of the box different from the rest of the pack. So what do you think? any ideas? Yay nay?
Comments
-
No, never. Loops are designed around 115% movement Speed. If a Killer has less, they get an ability to make up for that.
You can see how laughable Loops become when NOED is active, which gives 4% Speedboost. So you can say that 5% more Movement Speed would be roughly the same.
It would be really too hard to balance around 120% Movement Speed for one Killer, since his ability would actually be something that hurts him instead of help him.
18 -
Honestly, I doubt it'll ever happen, for exactly the reason you said. So much of the game revolves around movespeed that introducing a killer that essentially has bloodlust 1 built in would require the devs to deliberately gimp their power to offset the movement speed, which just isn't really good from a design standpoint. I don't think anyone would really want to play a killer who's main draw is just moving slightly faster.
1 -
SO I think this is mostly my fault for not explaining well enough, when I think of a killer like this then it would make sense that if they had a power it would have to be an information gathering power instead of helping in a chase. Think meyers with his wall hacks or doctor with his little finger snap. Though I definetley agree that its seems hard to balance when you have to purposley gimp the killer to make it remotley fair. however BVHR already does this wil several powers, if not all. a few examples would be huntress having to go to lockers to get more hatchets, deathslinger having to reload, hag having a limited number of traps, wraith being unable to attack while cloaked. those are just a few examples but I do agree wit you that its hard balance without seeming really lame.
0 -
Have tought about this also, if a killer only have this speed and no other power perhaps would not be impossible for survivors to counter? I mean first of all the killer no matter the speed need to find survivors in the first place.
0 -
I mean... It could be good design. Balancing alone doesn't make for poor design. But it's honestly beyond my ability to come up with anything interesting or unique in order to make it work that well lol.
I do think that a speedy, hit-and-run sort of killer could be interesting though. Who knows...
0 -
You wouldn't need to do as much as you'd think.
120% MS acts as minor anti-loop and boosts gap closing and patrol times. But that's it. 120% MS does not hard counter loops like a 110% Killers power does or anything.
PWYF is great and all, but you don't start getting free hits with it while you only have 1 stack. Easier hits yes, but not free. Same goes for NOED.
As for specifics. I've designed 2 Killers capable of indefinite 120% MS
The Wolf is a transforming Killer with a 110% stealth mode that enables and gradually empowers a 120% beast mode
The Acolyte isn't 120% per say, but is able to increase their base MS throughout the trial as they hit Survivors.
In both cases they can have both 120% AND a power, with the balancing factor simply being a prerequisite before they can start using the speed.
1 -
I love these, and will digest them as I eat lunch. plus I have wanted a werewolf for freaking ever so bonus points
1 -
Peanits doesn’t need to give his opinion on something crazy like this.
120% permanent speed is broken... then you add bloodlust to equation... and then you factor in NOED and PWYF... You’ve got the recipe for a braindead killer with zero counterplay.
0 -
This is oof if you thinks it's crazy, pretty harsh reaction to a fun idea.
Also weirdly cute that you are speaking for peanits, like you know what he would think.
2 -
I would like to point out that bloodlust 1 doesn't suddenly make you unloopable. It's only at bloodlust 2 and 3 that the Survivor becomes screwed.
0 -
yep, even then bloodlust as a mechanic is what happens when a survivor has been chased wayyyyyyy to long, it's not a good thing, a necessary thing but not a good thing as you are wasting time.
0 -
I think one that moves at 120% speed and breaks pallets twice as fast would be fun but would need a 40 meter TR to balance
1 -
Id say bump it up to 42 like huntresses humming, don't know about the breaking pallets thing though as the movement speed alone is eliminating the need for all the perks that give bonus movement speed, if we eliminated all the perks that increase action speed then it would be obnoxious in my opinion and easily broken. I genuinely think that this type of killer would have to be handled very delicately to be balanced and fair.
0 -
You’re right, I don’t know what he’d think.
What I do know is that 120% base speed would be broken when factoring in other perks and game mechanics. Let me consider your “balance ideas”:
Option 1 / Wind Up on Basic Attack -
All you’d have to do is time your windup and you’d get the survivor at any standard loop. I also don’t believe the devs would want to stray away from changing a base mechanic like the standard basic attack (speed, range of lunge, etc).
Option 2 / 120% in Chase, 110% or lower outside of chase -
120% is so strong that a killer would have to be slower than Nurse to compensate. That would lead to very boring/tedious map patrols and dull gameplay for both sides.
Option 3 / 3 hits to down a survivor -
I think this mechanic could easily be added (the first hit adding a unique status effect that then allows the next two hits to down), but I don’t realistically think the devs want to stray from the norm of either an instadown or 2 hits to down. Also, this would be very unrewarding gameplay... the fact that this killer would need 3 hits to down a survivor means he’s so strong/fast that an extra hit would be easy to obtain. Survivors would have little chance to outplay the killer.
1 -
My thinking was 40 meter terror radius and then foot stomps at 48 meters like lullaby.
0 -
You sir get an up vote for taking the time to actually respond. thank you.
For the most part I agree with you, I however want to try and push whats possible in this game for survivor and killer designs/mechanics. It's why I made this post, to try and see what the community could come up with to create something interesting.
1 -
Let me also remind people that the Legion before his most recent buff was often unable to get a hit in on Survivors in stronger loops.
At the time he was a 125% Killer with a significantly increased vault speed.
They had to buff him to a 130% Killer with an even faster vault speed for him to get hits in reliably under those circumstances.
A Killer that has 120% MS, 40 meter TR and absolutely nothing else would be underpowered.
1 -
Is that true? I wasn't around when legion first came out I started playing right before ghostface dropped so my experience with him was already after the changes.
0 -
When the Legion FIRST came out he was 130% in frenzy and was fine.
Then he had his update and was nerfed down to 125% with a slower vault speed among other things and would struggle to get a hit in with Frenzy around certain loops
And then he was buffed back up to 130% with the vault speeds restored and was fine again.
0 -
Which is why i said 120% movement speed AND break pallets twice as fast 😃
0 -
Huh I didnt know all that, like I knew he was changed because he was apparently really unfun to play against but damn.
0 -
Breaking pallets twice as fast is still a bit much. It'd be better to give them utility through their power instead.
0 -
Legion’s feral frenzy can’t down anyone, and it’s limited. That a HUGE difference from base 120% speed.
0 -
Legion’s feral frenzy can’t down anyone, and it’s limited. That a HUGE difference from base 120% speed.
0 -
Yes and it STILL wasn't consistently enough.
So if Survivors can loop a 125% Killer with super vaults. I think they can loop a 120% Killer with no additional anti-loop.
1 -
Im really bored at work okay.
2 -
Thanks.
I would rather see something like this if a 120% mechanic came into the game (this is not a fully fleshed idea):
Killer has 2 modes similar to old Doctor with treatment and punishment mode.
1) Speed mode (120%) - Killer does a slight animation to get into this stance. During this mode, speed is 120%, can vault windows and pallets like Legion, FOV is lowered, and CANNOT perform any attacks. Good for traversing the map and bypassing certain lengthy loops like the Saloon. It would have a slight cooldown like Feral Frenzy (but much shorter) so people can’t use it to traverse the map infinitely forever or misuse it without risk at loops.
2) Attack mode. Speed is 115% or lower. Insert random “special ability” here (like I said, not fully fleshed out).
Switching between both modes has a small animation so it’s not abusable.
0 -
No one has to “loop” Legion while he’s in Frenzy, he can’t down you!!! All you’re doing is trying to delay his first Feral Frenzy hit...
Once he gets out of Feral Frenzy he’s a regular 115% killer.
The OP is alluding to having a killer moving at 120% with the ability to down.
0 -
Yes I know. But even tho they don't HAVE to loop Frenzy. Back when he was 125% they could do so anyways. Meaning that even if he could down in Frenzy he would be unable to do so in certain loops (a minority of loops but still).
A 120% Killer without the super vaults would thus also be loopable. Not as loopable as a 115% Killer, but more loopable than a Nurse or Hag for example.
0 -
Any decent player can get the first Feral Frenzy hit with Legion, guaranteed. It lasts too long, and even if you fake a pallet drop to make Legion respect a pallet, he’s fast enough to catch up.
Not sure what these god loops you’re referring to are.
0 -
Well NOW you can't. But prior to his buff there were some jungle gyms you could loop him at, you could loop him around the shack and you could loop him around the (now nerfed) god windows.
You don't need to get the stun, his vault speed was slow enough that you could make sufficient distance to reach a vault then then get back to the pallet.
Now that his vault speed and movement speed is increased this is no longer the case and he gets a hit wherever.
0 -
Therre would be no skill involved and no difference between a skilled dude and a no skill dude with that killer.
0 -
How do you know?
0 -
@MongolPSR well the power of having 120% speed is not something that asks for skill,
0 -
I mean...... the power of holding down M1 to do the main objective as survivor doesn't either so I don't know whats your point.
0 -
@MongolPSR as a survivor, you need to know how to loop and you need to do some decision making, like deciding between a doing a rescue or a gen.
0 -
as a killer you need to know when to continue a chase or drop it and go find different survivors, this is decision making except you dont have teammates who are helping you.
0 -
@MongolPSR anyways, creating a killer that the strenght does not involve skill isnt a good idea.
0 -
And im saying that you would still need skill to win on a 120% killer. going 5% faster doesn't make you magically able to win loops. there's also plenty of killers that have much higher movement speed as their powers.
0 -
@MongoIPSR well billy requires you to play properely to get his speed: he does not turn very well. Spirit cannot see the survivors while in her special phase. Nurse needs to accurately blink.
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
How the hell did you even find a topic that's two years old?
0
