http://dbd.game/killswitch
Oni can do everything reworked Billy can do, but better.
The only difference is that Oni's power can't be used from the start of the match.
Just look:
- Oni has better mobility and can curve around corners with no penalty
- Oni can snowball with his power and is not punished for that
- Oni can apply bigger pressure on map in mid/late game where uptime of his power is huge
- Oni's demon strike is much easier to use than Billy's saw
- Dodging Oni's Demon rage abilities is way harder than dodging Billy's saw.
THE ONLY thing NEW Billy is better than Oni is that he doesn't depend on injuring survivors, but, once again, that's only the case in the early game, as in mid/late game Oni is capable of gaining enough blood to literally spam his fury.
Billy's rework was a mistake, just as big as Nurse's rework.
Comments
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Ow how the turntables
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If you tweak the overheating timer to be longer, he's honestly not even that bad. Oni was literally the tempered version of old billy and he was NEVER seen as bad. Now they are equal opposites. One works "early" game (Billy) and the other works "late" game (Oni).
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Good job. Now your gonna get oni nerfed again dammit!
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I love people trying to do a like - for - like comparison between killers in this game. Did you ever think that people like to play them because they enjoy using their power; like the gameplay; enjoy the aesthetic? Not everything is about finding the killer that can net you a guaranteed 4k with the optimal perks, power and playstyle
Seriously, I struggle to understand how people who think like this manage to even enjoy the game. I'd be bored out of my mind if i had this mindset going into a match.
That's the survivor equivalent of playing ace as opposed to jeff, because he can do everything jeff can do, but better - he's quieter, shorter and his character model is slimmer, so he's obviously more stealthy, i.e. the superior survivor!! Why do we even have jeff in this game, since he's obviously weaker than other survivors??
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After they butchered Nurse I just stopped caring and switched to Demogorgon exclusively so c'est la vie
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Yeah? You have a problem with that? Oni's Blood Fury SHOULD be better than Billy's saw because he has it way less. In fact, I'd be perfectly happy with all these Hillbilly complainers/bandwagoners playing Oni instead. He's more fun to verse and a much better aesthetic.
I feel the same way, and I'm even contemplating streaming as Legion getting zero (deliberate) kills while attempting to rank up. Showing that kills AREN'T EVERYTHING.
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Ace is better than Jeff.
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I'm simply stating a fact: Oni can do everything Billy can do, but better. Before Billy's nerf it wasn't that important, since Billy wasn't limited by cooldowns or anything like that and was able to spam his ability, but now Billy can't do that and is forced to sit through overheat, losing a lot of time. Oni has none of these downsides and is able to gain his power extremely fast.
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Fun is subjective, and if there are 2 killers with a similar playstyle that someone enjoys, it's logical that they would like to compare them to see who is better. It's like the Huntress/Deathslinger comparisons: at the end of they day, they are similar killers with similar powers and people naturally compare the two to see what their respective advantages and disadvantages are. It just, in this case, people are struggling to find PTB billy's advantages.
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Hillbilly has always required more skill than playing Oni. That's just my opinion.
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u wanna get Oni nerfed or smth? cmon man
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Stop posting stuff like that. If the devs see it, they will nerf him too.
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same here after Freddy rework I lost desire to main him, switched to Hag, but I play Clown and Legion the most, but are we safe? All I see is calls for Hag rework (while no one who actually plays here is asking for it) no matter where we run, hopefully clown and legion can only get buffed from here on out. I enjoy playing the less played killers, and survivors, Im p3ing Adam right now no one plays him LOL
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If OP determines fun on this basis, then he has a clear cut choice between the two killers and it's an easy swap, so he has no reason to complain.
That said I still maintain the point that the 'this killer is the same as that, but (insert random point)' are fundamentally ridiculous. Both oni and Billy can run around the map and have an insta-down - that's pretty much where their similarities end. There actual powers have different conditions to activate and play very differently during a chase. They have absolutely separate aesthetic and gameplay loop.
Same goes for huntress and Deathslinger.. The only similarity between the two is that they can attack survivors from a range. Mechanically they play completely differently and in a chase they behave completely differently.
That's why I'm dismissive of anyone who tries to make a point like OP. It's just not worth a discussion
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>If OP determines fun on this basis, then he has a clear cut choice between the two killers and it's an easy swap, so he has no reason to complain.
I'm not talking about "fun" in this post, because it's subjective. Some people love playing new nurse for example and I am sure New Billy will find his fans too, anyway that's not the point of the post. I'm talking about other things.
>That said I still maintain the point that the 'this killer is the same as that, but (insert random point)' are fundamentally ridiculous. Both oni and Billy can run around the map and have an insta-down - that's pretty much where their similarities end. There actual powers have different conditions to activate and play very differently during a chase. They have absolutely separate aesthetic and gameplay loop.
Ehm, no. Firstly, that kind of point is not ridiculous. We are talking about PvP game and comparing things in PvP games makes perfect sense. Secondly, I am not talking about aesthetic or how their gameplay feels. I am talking about what these killers are capable to do at best and how Oni surpasses billy in practically everything, thus making his rework a huge mistake.
>Same goes for huntress and Deathslinger.. The only similarity between the two is that they can attack survivors from a range. Mechanically they play completely differently and in a chase they behave completely differently.
No, not the same. Deathslinger and Huntress are a PERFECT example of what similar killers should be. None of them is better than another in EVERYTHING. Huntress has unlimited range of attack, but longer wind-up, Deathslinger is limited by distance, but can shoot almost instantly, Huntress needs to quit chases to reload, Deathslinger reloads midchase, Huntress can directly damage survivor with hatched, Deathslinger needs to reel them closer and so on. Same applies to Ghostface and Myers. As for Billy&Oni, one is able to gain his power insanely quick, is not limited by cooldowns, can snowball and shutdown loops and the other one is Billy. Whan can Billy do that Oni can't? Use his power from the start of the match? That's it, because after 60 seconds of the game Hillbilly becomes a worse version of Oni, as Oni can farm his power through jiggling survivors and uptime of it pretty low.
>That's why I'm dismissive of anyone who tries to make a point like OP. It's just not worth a discussion
Not it is certainly worth a discussion, because situations like this, when one killer's power is a WORSE version of the power of other killer, are simply unacceptable. ESPECIALLY when the "worse" killer is a free killer and "better" killer is locked behind paywall/grind.
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And despite that, Oni remains stronger than Billy no matter how good Billy plays,
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Which doesn't make sense why Billy would need a rework and Oni stays the same. lol
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That would be the case if oni wasn't bugged
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Even with his bloodgain fixed his powers remains being easily farmed (as you farm it mostly through hits) so no.
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next update oni's weapons will overheat if you hit 2 survivors during demon dash
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Ummmmm....
"The Oni: Fixed an issue that caused Survivors to drop twice the amount of Blood Orbs when performing actions while injured."
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Nonetheless, Oni farms his power really quick, so that change doesn't matter, I've already tried playing him on PTB.
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Only matter of time anyway. Lesson learned never invest in addons for killers, they will be reworked and nerfed anyway so don't waste BPs on good killers.
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I would say this is more a fact than an opinion. And this is coming from an Oni lover.
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Too bad it doesn't matter now how good you play billy, because any decent Oni would perform better anyway.
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I've been seriously trying to make myself less add-on reliant, and just mastering base kits w the right perk combos, but it gets really hard sometimes...
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From a red rank survivor perspective, I would say Hillbilly has more counter.
While I have only tried Oni a few times, with Hillbilly you actually have a limitation to your power in that bumping into objects is much more punishing, and you can definitely not curve with Hillbilly as much as you can with Oni. So yeah, it is an opinion nonetheless, but one that I know has been shared by many of players I have either faced or played with.
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Am I seriously going into this argument?
First point - fair enough. Keep in mind I was replying to someone else, not you.
Second point - If gameplay and mechanics are not your point, then why are you comparing oni and Billy specifically? Might as well compare any killer with Nurse, who surpasses any other killer. To your point that oni is better than billy at everything - here are a few axamples:
Can oni get to the other side of the map and interrupt multiple Survivors before they can complete even 10%of their first gen? No.
Can oni insta down his first survivor? No.
Can oni insta down survivors at all times during a game? No.
Can oni hook someone and immediately get to the next survivor across the map before they can hide/or get to a strong tile? No.
I could go on, but you get the point.
Third point: you're comparing apples with oranges. I. E. You're trying to do a like for like comparison for things that are fundamentally different, based on a single similarity. I could do the same and say that clown is a worse freddy, or that plague is a better Deathslinger, but we all know there is a lot more to freddy and clown to being able to slow down survivors and to plague and Deathslinger than being able to attack survivors from a long range.
Fourth point: most killers are not available in the base game. If you play enough to argue and claim to understand changes to killers, you've played enough to have enough shards for a dlc killer
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Dev's Reply:
"Message received loud and clear, community! Oni nerfs are on the way!"
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I am comparing Oni and Billy because they are fundamentally the same. They both can be described as "killer able to move quickly around the map and instadown survivor". Also, I would like to answer your points as I don't agree with them.
>If gameplay and mechanics are not your point, then why are you comparing oni and Billy specifically? Might as well compare any killer with Nurse, who surpasses any other killer. To your point that oni is better than billy at everything - here are a few axamples:
Like I said above, I am comparing them because they are fundamentally the same. Their powers have similar functionality and their playstyles are very similar.
>Can oni get to the other side of the map and interrupt multiple Survivors before they can complete even 10%of their first gen
>Can oni insta down his first survivor?
So, these two points are basically the same and I think I already said, that in "early game" Billy has access to his power, while Oni doesn't. Nonetheless, it doesn't make a huge difference, as Oni gets access to his power within first 60 seconds of the game. Reworked Billy can't do much with his saw in 60 seconds, so he isn't really better here. He just can use his gutted power from the start with all that means.
>Can oni insta down survivors at all times during a game? No.
Technically Billy can't instadown survivors at all times aswell. He is limited by overheat. I'm not going to provide all math, as I'm too lazy to do that, but from what I saw and read, after going through the entire map or revving chainsaw at least once (or twice) you would almost get full overheat and would have to wait before it wears off enough to rev saw again, and knowing that a guarantee saw hit is only when a survivor is in dead zone, billy can't just instadown survivors anytime as they will put him on cd by selling pallets/dodging/doing other counterplaying stuff. Oni can use his power basically anytime once he gathers it in these 60 seconds and after that he simply jiggles survivors and forces them to feed blood to him.
>Can oni hook someone and immediately get to the next survivor across the map before they can hide/or get to a strong tile? No.
Yes. Especially if you down a survivor within first 4-5 seconds of Demon Fury or find blood orbs near hook to regain power quickly if you spent a good amount of the charge.
>Third point: you're comparing apples with oranges. I. E. You're trying to do a like for like comparison for things that are fundamentally different, based on a single similarity. I could do the same and say that clown is a worse freddy, or that plague is a better Deathslinger, but we all know there is a lot more to freddy and clown to being able to slow down survivors and to plague and Deathslinger than being able to attack survivors from a long range.
Like I said in the beginning, you are wrong here. Oni and Billy are fundamentally the same killer. Their power in nutshell is "a sprint with instadown that is hard to control". The difference is that Billy can use it from the start of the game, but is punished with 3 different kinds of cooldowns (overheat, stun, fatigue) and Oni has to farm it by injuring survivors, but he is not punished by overusing it, missing or landing hits (at least not enough to actually matter, I know that his power decreases faster when he does that) or bumping into corners. That is why I'm not comparing clown with freddy (but I will compare Freddy's snares and Clown's bottles, because they serve a similar purpose), plague with deathslinger (but I would compare plague's range attack with DS`s power or with Huntress' hatchets, because they serve a similar purpose) and so on. Back to the topic, I will say it again, Billy`s rework is a mistake, because his saw is WORSE than Oni's power even BEFORE addition of cooldown, but now, when Billy is limited by cooldowns, that create pretty similar time gapes between usage of his power, like Oni has while farming Demon Fury, Billy is not worth picking over Oni unless you just like using his power and don't care about performance.
>Fourth point: most killers are not available in the base game. If you play enough to argue and claim to understand changes to killers, you've played enough to have enough shards for a dlc killer
I'm talking not about myself, but people in general, who would see the following thing: one killer that is free and is a worse version of a killer that is purchasable. My point on this remains the same: there should not be a situation where 1 killer is a worse version of the other. Similar killers are okay, but they should be good and bad at different things like Ghostface and Myers, Deathslinger and Huntress.
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honestly, in his current state i dont see any reason to run Billy over Oni.
guess Oni is gonna be our new "perfectly balanced killer"?
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I guess the huntress or hag are next on the chopping block, since survivors hate them most now.
As for Oni, we've got to wait a year before no other high tier killers are left and survivors would switch to him.
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i could maybe see some hag changes (make her more fun and appealing to play / verse), but huntress certainly doesnt need any power rework at all.
though both have problematic add ons, so yeah excpect to see this happen again sooner or later...
sigh...
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And you are entitled to your opinion. However, you are completely ignoring something else: comparing the two is not the basis for which one you would rather play. For example, I hate billy. I despise billy. Billy is an overused madman with an overappreciated power. However, he is stronger than Oni simply because you cannot wait out Billy's chainsaw. At least, you couldn't before. And the two can be directly compared because they have essentially the same playstyle. Even their looping is similar, just with different details.
Like it or not, similar subjects invite discussion and comparison. Why? Because it is not, in fact, pointless, and nor is it "ridiculous". They are objectively similar subjects, and please do remember that "similar" and "identical" are not the same term. You even contradicted yourself - You said that Huntess and Deathslinger are ranged killers, yet they play completely differently. They are both ranged killers, their power revolves around hitting survivors at range. That there is an instant similarity in playstyle, and an enormous one at that. Now, if you are comparing Huntress and Oni, well, they clearly have nothing in common except basic killer abilities. Their powers share no overlap whatsoever, either in playstyle or ability. Since they share no common ground, direct comparison is difficult bordering on worthless.
Being dismissive of people because of your personal opinion on the "fun" of a topic is extremely arrogant. After all, instead of scrolling past and completely forgetting this post, you felt the need to express your opinion about it's worth.
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So Wraith would be better, you say?
Nerfs to Wraith on the way!!!
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Your first point is that billy is stronger. That is not an objective statement, it is just an opinion (just like the one you called out on my part) - he may be stronger than oni in your hands, however a lot of other people's oni is stronger than your billy and yet other people's billy is stronger than those people's oni and so on and so forth. The statement that the killers have the same/similar playstyle is also incorrect. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people try to play them the same way (to varying degrees of success). That however has no bearing on the killers and their powers, but rather the people using them. This might surprise you, but there are also a lot of people who have a unique playstyle with these two killers which is different from yours.
Regarding your second paragraph. You're twisting my words a bit. Similar subjects do invite comparison, but that comparison is indeed pointless and ridiculous if it is based on fundamentals which are in fact, not similar - what op did and you're trying to replicate.
Specifically regarding the "contradiction" in what I said - the only people who would say that huntress and deathslinger are similar (or oni and billy for that matter) are the ones that fail to see beyond the fact that they have a ranged mechanic and fail to see what's how each power is unique and invites a different playstyle from the user. These people will try to play the killers the same way and once they find more success with one, they'll convince themselves that one does the same things as the other, but better. That's because THEY tried to do the same things with them and THEY had more success with one. Nothing wrong with that - everyone is free to play how they want, however they can't reasonably expect to post about it in the forum and not get dismissed by others who like to use a killer's power for what it is and don't try to force it into what it's not.
About me being arrogant.. perhaps I do come off a bit arrogant. I don't mind it. If it helps at least one person think about how ridiculous those comparisons sound, then I've done what I came here to do.
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For the survivor equivalent, why do we see so many P3 Claudettes? Because she's the hardest to spot.
Reminds of those idiots in Rising Storm 2 who have their character models as shirtless with boonie hats as all factions so you can't tell the damn difference between who's Vietcong and who's US/AUS/ARVN and then they complain when they get teamkilled 250 meters away because I can't tell. (Even though they're trying to make their model look like the enemy faction)
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Can Oni pull off a cowboy outfit? Didn't think so. Team Yeehaw wins.
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Post like this are the reason why killer's can't have nice things
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Oni concept for blood interested me tho. He need a vampire cosmetic.
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It's not the posts, it's devs mindset on changing killers
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