Survivors need a nerf, Change My Mind
Edit: this was a dumb thread if you wanna see how a inexperienced killer gets rekt read this thread however i have gotten more experience so im not as bad as i sound lol
Seriously with all these op survivor perks you literally can't anything about people being unhooked. Oh you chased someone after they were healing nearby, DS. You were patrolling a nearby gen, BT. Literally the reason this game has a camping issue is that you have so many perks that are meant for use after getting unhooked, so why let them off the hook in the first place? Also the old "just go after the one who unhooked" how am I supposed to know who saved them without seeing them which proves that statement in of itself promotes camping. Also the fundamentals of the game need an adjustment. The fact there is one objective supports the play of gen rushing. Also another thing i see when people talk about gen rush, "just use (DLC perk) or (DLC perk)" The fact you need to buy something in order to stand a chance is total (BAD WORD). It's pay to win in that case. No better than other game's that thrive on microtransactions like Madden for example. This game needs fixing because at the state it's in it's either pay to win or lose. Also using anti-gen rush perks don't slow down gen rushers at all.
I may be new to the game but i know about the most used survivor perks, DH or SB, BT,DS. Those perks need some sort of balancing. Also there needs to be a "game chat" so people can communicate. But I'll get to that point later. Another point I'll get back to is the flashlight/toolbox meta.
First let's talk about both dead hard and sprint burst. While dead hard hasn't given me much of an issue so I can't speak about it. But sprint burst is way too strong. I have played both survivor and killer for many games and I have figured out that sprint burst kinda needs a nerf. Here are my adjustments to the perk
- Sprint Burst lasts 1 second instead of 3 (increases by half a second for each upgrade so 1, 1.5, 2)
- Sprint Burst also has a higher cooldown
- Sprint Burst like dead hard has a button you can press to activate it instead of it activating by just running
Secondly we have borrowed time. Borrowed time is a anti-camp/tunnel mechanic but it lasts too long IMO. Here are my changes for that perk
- Borrowed time should last 5, 7, 10 seconds but the deep wounds should have a longer time before you go down in case of tunnelers
Finally and my most hated perk as a killer main, Decisive Strike. It should be an anti-camp/tunnel mechanic but really its just a second chance if you lose a chase. Don't get me wrong it should stay a good perk but it shouldn't last so long to the point where any decent survivor can loop and stun you until you finally get them down and you get hit with that. So here are my changes to the perk
- Borrowed time last 15 seconds less(25,35,45)
Now I'm gonna keep this short and simple but to counter to amount of SWFs then we need an in game form of communication so that solo queues aren't so bad people only play in SWFs.
Now we get to the flashlight/toolbox meta or the gen rush. Basically people do as many gens as fast as possible to escape swiftly and without issue. This is what I think people mean by SWF is a problem. The generators need a time nerf. For example increase the time of the generators and add 5 more minutes to matches. Here are my changes
- Generator repair speed is nerfed by 25%, that way gen rushing will be slower or add a different objectives
- This will promote a style of play where multiple people are working on gens leading to more chases and more cooperation(for this to work there needs to be a game chat)
I think these changes need a lot of time and money but if they do it it will make the game more balanced.
Comments
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I can even add a solution if you like
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"just use DS" when you complain about being tunneled is also pretty common, but somehow that's okay?
"Also using anti-gen rush perks don't slow down gen rushers at all." Damn guess my Freddy build of Pop, Surge, Surveillance, and BBQ doesn't slow down games and all the teams I face are just #########?
Survivors don't need to be nerfed, either they need an actual second objective (because if someone tries to tell me an optional objective is enough I will scream) or killers need to be buffed at base. If you have to camp to "win", you're not a good killer.
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I dont think anything anyone says could ever change your mind, people who use the change my mind thing are just trying to argue with people. So unless I agree with you it wont matter.
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I'm seriously willing to conversate
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um what?? Nothing makes sense in here
You say that people tunnel and camp because there are anti camp and tunnel perks ? This doesn’t make sense, it’s the opposite actually people use those perks because they are getting tunneled.
Also why is it a bad thing that a great killer perk is available only for dlc characters but it’s ok for survivors?
This whole thread sounds like “ hey survivors have perks that I have to play around but this is not fair so pls nerf”
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- that's not ok and i don't condone it
- Not everyone has the time and money to buy all killers and level them up just to stand a threat against the survivors.
i can put a solution right here:I may be new to the game but i know about the most used survivor perks, DH or SB, BT,DS. Those perks need some sort of balancing. Also there needs to be a "game chat" so people can communicate. But I'll get to that point later. Another point I'll get back to is the flashlight/toolbox meta.
First let's talk about both dead hard and sprint burst. While dead hard hasn't given me much of an issue so I can't speak about it. But sprint burst is way too strong. I have played both survivor and killer for many games and I have figured out that sprint burst kinda needs a nerf. Here are my adjustments to the perk
- Sprint Burst lasts 1 second instead of 3 (increases by half a second for each upgrade so 1, 1.5, 2)
- Sprint Burst also has a higher cooldown
- Sprint Burst like dead hard has a button you can press to activate it instead of it activating by just running
Secondly we have borrowed time. Borrowed time is a anti-camp/tunnel mechanic but it lasts too long IMO. Here are my changes for that perk
- Borrowed time should last 5, 7, 10 seconds but the deep wounds should have a longer time before you go down in case of tunnelers
Finally and my most hated perk as a killer main, Decisive Strike. It should be an anti-camp/tunnel mechanic but really its just a second chance if you lose a chase. Don't get me wrong it should stay a good perk but it shouldn't last so long to the point where any decent survivor can loop and stun you until you finally get them down and you get hit with that. So here are my changes to the perk
- Borrowed time last 15 seconds less(25,35,45)
Now I'm gonna keep this short and simple but to counter to amount of SWFs then we need an in game form of communication so that solo queues aren't so bad people only play in SWFs.
Now we get to the flashlight/toolbox meta or the gen rush. Basically people do as many gens as fast as possible to escape swiftly and without issue. This is what I think people mean by SWF is a problem. The generators need a time nerf. For example increase the time of the generators and add 5 more minutes to matches. Here are my changes
- Generator repair speed is nerfed by 63%, which means if a gen is being repaired by one person it will take 130 seconds
- This will promote a style of play where multiple people are working on gens leading to more chases and more cooperation(for this to work there needs to be a game chat)
I think these changes need a lot of time and money but if they do it it will make the game more balanced.
Also nice insult at the end.
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that is an effective nerf which can be adjusted
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“Literally the reason this game has a camping issue is that you have so many perks that are meant for use after getting unhooked, so why let them off the hook in the first place?”
No, the perks were a response to the camping issues that were already prevalent in the game.
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I can't say I completely agree or disagree but one thing I do agree with is the fact that you need to buy DLC to obtain perks that give you a better chance to win the game. I personally don't have a problem with buying DLC for cheap ($1-$5) if it means I can try out different perks but it is true that it's unfair for some players. On the topic of perks though if they could make them unlock able, besides the shrine, and allow you to get the perks but just not the killer it comes with that would be amazing. Some games I play let you unlock various weapons with challenges. Modern Warfare for example you usually buy the season pass to unlock new weapons they give out during a big update. Those who do not buy the season pass don't get the weapons but once the season is over they're able to unlock the weapons by doing challenges so they can have a chance to obtain themselves.
If we can build off of that idea and maybe one day we can suggest being able to get perks without buying the DLC.
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When did i say it was ok for survivors to have pay walls to perks. Never, so that's your second point gone. Your first point is me saying people tunnel because there are anti tunnel perks which isn't what i said. I said basically because all those perks exist when they are off the hook then why should they leave the hook
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A second objective isn't needed. Maps are what need fixed.
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maybe they were effective then but they need adjustment now
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"Literally the reason this game has a camping issue is that you have so many perks that are meant for use after getting unhooked, so why let them off the hook in the first place?"
No, those Perks are used because Killers play like ######### if they dont have to fear a DS. Part of the reason why I use DS is so that there is an Obsession, because if there is no DS, the Killer can and will freely tunnel.
I mean, Pyramid Head shows how bad the Hook play is, they removed the ability to see Cages for exactly this reason.
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Thanks for seeing some of my point and i will come back to you later because people are responding like crazy
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This is how every "change my mind" thread goes:
- OP posts an, obviously, angry and biased post full of exaggeration.
- They demand people attempt to change their mind and explain how this is "fair".
- People come to express their view and explain some of what OP is upset about.
- Other posters tell OP they are exaggerating and point out how to deal with a lot of it.
- "Git Gud" posts
- OP argues against every point, good or bad, and defends their blatant bias and exaggeration.
- Fighting continues and posters, including the OP, start foaming at the mouth.
- Anyone posting becomes upset and no one's mind is changed.
- OP continues believing what they believe.
- BONUS: OP states something about their "experiences in game" and how it proves their point.
These threads are always a waste of time. You aren't willing to accept anything anyone says and you demand people to change your mind which we all know will never happen because you are stuck in how you view things due to your experience and bias.
Do I think Survivors are OP? Sometimes, it depends on things. 🤷♀️
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Man i think i need to add my solution in the original comment
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So firstly with your sprint burst changes. Change #1 makes the perk useless. Change #2 ruins the standardisation of the perk the devs are going for. Change #3 literally makes it the best survivor perk in the game. Sprint Burst isn't as problematic as you think it is.
Borrowed Time changes I can get behind.
DS changes- no. If we really want to make it an anti tunnel perk then have it so it's permanently active but only if you were the most recently unhooked. If you're smart when being tunneled you'll make a chase last longer than 45 seconds and suddenly the anti-tunnel perk becomes useless.
For gen speeds? Again, no. Do you know how mindnumbingly boring it is to hold M1 for 80 seconds, let alone 130? This is why it's important we add another objective for survivors- an obligatory extra objective- that's more fun and interactive than holding down a button. Remember we need to make this fun for both sides.
Also, 130 second gens would break the balance of the game and make the game h e a v i l y killer sided. As in, I cannot stress enough how much this would kill the game for survivors. "oH yOu CaNt hAvE eAsY wInS-" no, shut up, sit down please; it's not about easy wins it's about having to hold m1 for 130 seconds in solo Q when randoms struggle for ######### 10 seconds of gen time. If gens take 130 seconds to complete then you best be bringing back God loops and old tile spacing.
We don't need to add voice comms, we need to buff the information a single solo survivor gets to reduce the advantage you get from being on comms. From there, buff killers.
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But in the meantime ill make a comment with it right here if you haven't seen it
I may be new to the game but i know about the most used survivor perks, DH or SB, BT,DS. Those perks need some sort of balancing. Also there needs to be a "game chat" so people can communicate. But I'll get to that point later. Another point I'll get back to is the flashlight/toolbox meta.
First let's talk about both dead hard and sprint burst. While dead hard hasn't given me much of an issue so I can't speak about it. But sprint burst is way too strong. I have played both survivor and killer for many games and I have figured out that sprint burst kinda needs a nerf. Here are my adjustments to the perk
- Sprint Burst lasts 1 second instead of 3 (increases by half a second for each upgrade so 1, 1.5, 2)
- Sprint Burst also has a higher cooldown
- Sprint Burst like dead hard has a button you can press to activate it instead of it activating by just running
Secondly we have borrowed time. Borrowed time is a anti-camp/tunnel mechanic but it lasts too long IMO. Here are my changes for that perk
- Borrowed time should last 5, 7, 10 seconds but the deep wounds should have a longer time before you go down in case of tunnelers
Finally and my most hated perk as a killer main, Decisive Strike. It should be an anti-camp/tunnel mechanic but really its just a second chance if you lose a chase. Don't get me wrong it should stay a good perk but it shouldn't last so long to the point where any decent survivor can loop and stun you until you finally get them down and you get hit with that. So here are my changes to the perk
- Borrowed time last 15 seconds less(25,35,45)
Now I'm gonna keep this short and simple but to counter to amount of SWFs then we need an in game form of communication so that solo queues aren't so bad people only play in SWFs.
Now we get to the flashlight/toolbox meta or the gen rush. Basically people do as many gens as fast as possible to escape swiftly and without issue. This is what I think people mean by SWF is a problem. The generators need a time nerf. For example increase the time of the generators and add 5 more minutes to matches. Here are my changes
- Generator repair speed is nerfed by 63%, which means if a gen is being repaired by one person it will take 130 seconds
- This will promote a style of play where multiple people are working on gens leading to more chases and more cooperation(for this to work there needs to be a game chat)
I think these changes need a lot of time and money but if they do it it will make the game more balanced.
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- BT: Don't go for the unhooked survivor; Count to 15 before hitting him; Activate your stealth if you are a stealth killer
- DS: Once a survivor gets unhooked start counting to 60 (70 for good measure) to know when his DS will have expired
- DH: JUST WAIT FOR EVERY SURVIVOR TO USE DEAD HARD!
- Sprint Burst: Don't swing if they are walking or just chase a different survivor if one has Sprint Burst
Tbh, complaining about these perks just means you suck at the game.
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Honestly wouldn't complain about this one either. Most maps are still busted as ######### and hopefully the pre-game warmup they were on about during the anniversary stream will help it out too.
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im willing to change
what i basically did with gens is make it where it doesn't take 4 seconds for 2 people to pop a gen and allows the killer time to get there. Also voice comms go well with that rework since you can have multiple working on one gen at once while someone is getting chased which can severely harm a killer if he tunnels. Let's say he chases for about 80 seconds and 2 people are working on a gen while someone is by themselves on another gen. That would be 1 gen popping(65 seconds if 2 people are working on one generator since 130/2 is 65) and another having decent progress(80/130) is decent). Also if they gen rush with 3 people on one gen while someone is chased then you have an even faster gen speed(about 43 seconds) so the gen rush is manageable for the killer but not heavily kicking the survivors to the curb. Also making games longer should compensate for gen times. Now anti gen perks should be toned down a little at least until people get used to it. and i never said you can't have easy wins you are put words in my mouth lmao. So what do you think about these adjustments. Also the fun should be the chase not the objectives.
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It's much more ineffecient for multiple survivors to work on the game gen. It isn't 65 seconds, there's a 15% action speed penalty. So it's technically 1.7 charges per second, not 2. This means that it'd take 130/1.7 seconds, or 76.47 seconds for a 2 stacked on one gen. This is almost as slow as a solo gen now.
I disagree heavily.
The devs have said they're looking into ways of slowing down the early game.
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- already answered in original comment
- how would i be able to tell who i hooked and who i didn't if i'm not near the hook in the first place.
- Fair point
- I'm talking about how literally as survivor how spine chill or any detection perk for that matter tells me killer is coming so i can just beeline to a safe area in seconds and if i use a scratch mark juke he can't find me then boom i'm back to the gen and pop it's done
Nice insult
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Then lower that number to around 100 or 110 but
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Killers need a buff, survivors don't need a nerf
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I'm happy with seeing what the devs wanna do with their early game warmup #########.
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That could be another possible option
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Maybe you just need to git gud!
Play spirit and 4k every game, then when you are bored, switch to a different killer.
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my ideas would need work and testing but it could possibly work but this is why it's a theoritical solution and not a permament one.
I'm willing to believe in the devs but idk from me actually digging deeper in this community it's so divided i can only feel bad for the devs what they have to deal with
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like i said later in the og comment i said not everyone has the time and effort to buy DLC killers and level them up so you get a good loadout. Also playing a op killer shouldn't be an answer to an unbalanced playing field between killer and survivor
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I dont see how every killer can be expected to have the same strength. This always baffles me.
I understand the desire for all killers to be equal strength, but as I have said before, different powers are inherently stronger than others.
If you play trapper, how can you expect to get consistently the same results as playing freddy?
Also spirit is like 9000 shards and you can compete with just her base kit.
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i never said all killers should be the same, they should have differences. But when there is one good killer among all the weak ones that shouldn't be happening. Yes some killers are better than others and that goes back to my og comment saying that's pay to win because the DLC killers are better than the free cast. Also i may try buying her once i gain enough shards.
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I think killers as a collective are easier to buff and nerf than survivors. Survivor buffs/nerfs usually have a lot more unintended consequences.
Most things you buff killers with are going to have barely any unintended loopholes for use in situations it wasn't meant for, For example buffing the length of the lunge is always just going to increase odds of hitting a survivor with a lunge, with little way to abuse it.
Survivors are much more the type to literally use everything they have to survive. They are also more reliant on perks as they don't have special abilities like killers. So if you nerf vault speed, the vault speed build will become more popular but also meaning that 2 perk slots will be filled for survivors(Nerfing them more than intended), Buffing vaulting speed would do the opposite and make that build less popular leaving more open slots.
It isn't that much more difficult to balance survivor, but it just will usually have more unintentional effect.
Balancing killers individually is the hardest but killers as a whole is easier.
Either way I'm pretty sure it's just safer, better & more fun to buff killers
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I would recommend buying her because she is awesome, and my go to when I suspect a 4 man swf.
But Billy and Nurse are not pay to play and are in the top killers in the game.
Also individual skill can negate some of the advantages survivors have.
But a well coordinated 4 man is probably the strongest thing in the game, and I'd argue as it should be. But you're talking about 1% of the player base.
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- i may try her out in kyf first
- billy got nerfed and nurse has a high skill floor
- im new to the game so i go off what i have watched and experienced
- that's an exaggeration
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that's most likely true but this is a discussion for a reason
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Billy got nerfed but like the spirit, good Billys will still perform at a high level. You can't have the ability to just camp people to death with instadowns in the game.
Nurse, does indeed require skill, but you complained about pay to win, she is a play to win killer, that breaks the game when you hit the skill ceiling.
Your own skill will improve as you play, and you will be astonished at the things you no longer fall for, as at you ability to read crows, scratches, blood trails, etc.
Maybe 1% is an exaggeration, but surely it is not more than 5%
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probably less then 15% instead of 5%
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Fair enough, thanks for the discussion!
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you are welcome see this is an actual change my mind not where people just look for arguments lmao
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Im a rank one killer main and the only perk that makes me angry is sprint burst. You find them and then all of a sudden they are a mile away....ds and borrowed time are ok during the game they don't bother me to much. I just eat the DS and try to ignore the unhooked if I can . But they are bs at end game when there is absolutely nothing you can do about it and they can just walk out.
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Right on,Lol
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So you are bad killer? Change my mind. :)
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I mean the reason why people tunnel is because it's efficient and people feel the need to camp because they are going to lose and you have nothing to lose anyway but why does your ds changes address borrowed time
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Sprint Burst on command is a terrible idea. Imagine you're in a chase and they just zoom away before you hit them. From this post it seems you play pretty bad. Not to mock you about it, but "why let them off the hook anyways" or getting hit by ds when someone is healing along with "anti-gen rush perks don't stop gen-rushers". If there's 2 people healing you can down one and if you know you can get the other person or suspect the injured one still has ds, go attack the healer. Either just smack them and let them go or full out kill them. In both of those situations you don't really lose much, as you gain a slug and an injured person. If the injured person doesn't heal you can pick them off later or you can just down them before hand. I agree there needs to be a base way to legitimately stop gens more than a kick to just start regression, as many survivors will just tap a gen. I think an 8% regression penalty on the kick would be a simple enough change, along with an early game rework, which is coming sometime later. We could nerf pop to still be 25% combined with the new gen kick. I think adding a small progress decay on doors and gens that aren't being worked on would be good too. Not so much that it's like built in ruin, but enough to make survivors consider leaving it and putting more pressure on them to make a decision.
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Ah yes the daily
nerf gen speeds and make survivor more of a m1 simulator then it already is right now then whine when killer queue’s take so long because nobody wants to play survivor
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Every time someone makes a post like this I think they should be required to post a link to a YouTube video of one of their games to prove to everyone they are actually decent before screaming for nerfs.
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If you are new close this post you dont know anything about op if you came after 2017-early 2018 I dont want to hear anything about survivors being op
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first off don't disrespect me like that i have watched this game for years the toxicity is what kept me away so hush
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if3a4rJVzuk&t=6s
already changed the time in a late comment to 100
its only for 1 second which isn't even half of the normal time
already linked a video to one of my games
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The problem with the one second is that it's on demand, so survivors get a bunch of distance for free. Plus since it's one second there would be no time to the speed to pick up so they'd just blast away when you're about to hit them. Also reviewing your game play it shows you really don't know what you're doing. Those guys were garbage and basically gave themselves to you so good on that I suppose. But you knew Ace was picked up and decided to use the rest of your tier 3 to camp Claudette. Also you would've gained far more pressure than if you didn't just tunnel the death hook Ace. Along with the whole pressure thing you stayed in tier 1 for 5 minutes. How are you going to get any downs like that? I know you probably don't have very many levels yet since you're rank 14, but if you can you need to improve your build. Survivors aren't op. You just don't know what you're doing and that's okay. Just don't end up as one of those killers who have the "ooga booga survivor bad killer good" mentality. It's a detriment to everybody.
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