Decisive strike is broken
Decisive strike is meant to protect the survivor that uses it from killers that want to tunnel. This is fine: tunneling does not require any skill and should not be a thing, good to have some counter to it. The problem is: the perk does not protect from smart tunnelers and some killers might not have tunneled the survivor but can still get hit by it.
Let me explain: the tunneler can easily slug the unhooked guy. The unhooked survivor might not even have enough time to get to a locker if he is just straight up tunneled right after being unhooked. Since the decisive guy is often the obsession, its easy for the killer to know who has it or not. To counter this, make it so that the timer stops when the survivor is in a chase or downed. Also, allow the survivor to use it during a mori: you should not be helpless against a brain dead strategy just because the killer brought an offering.
Now, decisive strike gives the ability to get out of jail for free, so it should only be very specific. The problem is that sometimes, the killer might chase someone else and then randomly come across the unhooked survivor. If he gets hit by decisive, then it is not deserved and it is just a free get out of jail card for the survivor: no tunneling was involved, so it was an unconditional get away that the killer did nothing to deserve. To counter that, make it so that the timer is of 10, 15 or 20 seconds: if the unhooked survivor gets chased within that time, then it was clearly tunneling.
In conclusion, tunnelers have multiple ways to avoid decisive strike and this perk often ends up punishing a killer that did not even use toxic strategies. Fix this perk so that it does what it is supposed to do: protect people from tunnelers and not something else
Comments
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Here an idea of mine: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/171011/survivor-perks-ideas#latest
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Did I get your words right? One of the ideas is to change DS so that during the chase the timer stops?
I heard something like this from Scott Jund and I absolutely disagree. Making the DS timer stop in a chase or when the surv is on the floor will only push players to abuse this perk. They will simply run around the killer and be completely invulnerable.
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If they do this, they will constantly give the killer bloodlust and effectively make him zoom across the field.
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The devs have said that DS is not strictly an anti-tunneling perk.
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Actually, I find that despite not running decisive strike that I'm the obsession like half the time. My teammates have Decisive Strike. I don't even have unbreakable! Or Soul Guard.
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@brokedownpalace decisive should only counter tunnelers. Randomly getting out of trouble is way to strong.
@Chloan well if the survivor touches to a generator or something, then it stops. And if the timer does not stop, tunnelers like you would have an easier time tunneling: if the survivor gets downed after the timer expired, which it will quickly do, then you tunneled but decisive did not do the anti-tunneling job.
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What if DS deactivated upon beginning an action (like working on a gen/bones/healing/etc.)? That seems like it could fix a lot of the issues.
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It's getting boring tbh.
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Why do you think I am a tunneler?
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Maybe I am. You don't know
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@Chloan well it was a guess based on the fact that you sayed that one of my ideas was bad, where this idea was necessary to prevent tunneling.
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That's not true. DS was designed to be anti tunneling perk and they have said this many times. They also mention that people should work to make the perk work. Like with pop you need to hook a survivor and then find generator that has been worked on under 60 seconds, put pressure with ruin to make it work etc. There is zero reguirements for DS, get hooked (failing) and get free 60 second immunity to do what ever you like
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They have stated on this very forum that DS was not designed to be anti tunneling
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Can you link me that quote? i remember watching dev stream when they introduced reworked DS and they said it's now anti tunneling perk.
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I can not because I get an error every single time I try to use the search function on the forum :(
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@goatslinguer looks like someone is trying to create excuses
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Have you tried searching? Because it doesn't work.
@Peanits said DS is not strictly an anti-tunnel perk. When search works again I will find the thread he commented in.
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He said that about the original DS that worked like a free escape, the new DS is an anti tunneling perk.
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No. That's not true.
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Proof that the devs don't understand their own game! If the perk isn't anti-tunnel than it wouldn't activate or have counterplay of anti-tunneling
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it is true, the devs said DS wasn't originally intended to be an anti tunneling perk, you got a random skillcheck that gave you a free escape if you werent the obsession, sort of like wiggeling with flip-flop right now, or if you were the obsession you got an immidiate skillcheck to get out of killer grasp. They way it is now is intended to be an anti-tunneling perk, but survivors abuse it as an "invulnerability" perk for 60 seconds, or getting out at the end when exit gates are opened.
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I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you. That is not what he said. Either you misunderstood his comment or you are referring to a now dated comment. When the search function works we will be able to resolve this
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if its not an anti tunneling perk? now then what is it? its something else? not an anti tunneling perk? its actually supposed to make survivors invurnerable for 60 seconds? give survivors free escapes at the end of the match? let survivors do gens in your face or jump in and out of lockers to annoy killers? at this point youre just trying to argue semantics based upon what a community manager supposedly said. get real its an anti-tunneling perk that is abusable
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@Sir_Bassington @slunder @Callmehandsome @goatslinger
I forgot that I took screenshots of his comment for this very reason.
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the blogpost about DS says its a second chance perk and was intended to be a second chance perk only, and peanits claims the "anti-tunnel perk" was made up by the commuity, doesn't make it any less true, so if were gonna argue based on that then survivors clearly don't use it as a second chance perk regardless.
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So now you're completely changing what we were arguing about. I SAID it was not strictly an anti tunnel perk, NOT that it wasn't a "second chance" perk. I'm not going to be responding to you any further.
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your whole point about it not being an anti tunneling perk have nothing to do with what the complaints against the perk actually is, and now that we ironed out what it actually is, which is a second chance perk, also showcases how its still abusable and the complaints against it is still valid.
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I have been hit by DS when not tunneling but i'd rather it stay how it is.
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DECISIVE STRIKE Q&A WITH HORVATH | FEBRUARY 22, 2019
Today we did a Q&A session on discord with Stefan Horvath about the upcoming changes on Decisive Strike.
So here are below the answers given by our Game Designer/Stefan Horvath.
QUESTION: WHAT LED TO THE DECISION TO PUT THE TIMER ON DECISIVE STRIKE?
-------------------------Horvath: We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed----------------------"
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Right and my quote from peanits comes after that. Horvath is also saying that the original 2 minute timer went way too far beyond anti tunneling, not that it should be ONLY anti tunneling. Also in the quote he says "tunneled or farmed." That right there shows it's not strictly anti tunnel.
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While I agree this version of DS is not great, it's a band-aid fix to tunneling.
It's surprising how often killers will tunnel without an obsession.
Though tunneling is considered completely unfun, it can sometimes be the right play if you want to make it a 3v1 late into the game.
Being hit by a 59 second DS is always the worst feeling in the word. It can be "how did I tunnel?", while in other situations you did "tunnel".
Should tunneling be punished? I don't know, all I know is that I don't find it fun because I'm often left in a bad position, and my teammates usually don't run BT so I don't get another way to position myself better.
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I think this is now he said she said which doesn't take us anywhere. It's not the first time devs have said something and then change their words. For instance MM addons which increased the tier 3 time, where addon description specifically said that it will only take longer to reach tier 3 the FIRST time. And people called out peanits for saying it is a bug when addon function and description remained the same for years literally. Also they called killer seeing hooked survivor auras "bug" after they removed it and later reverted it again.
Anyways many people think Decisive strike is poorly designed perk currently which could be changed to be actual anti tunneling perk while still remaining strong. Devs always preach how they think players should work to make perks do something. There is literally no reguirements for DS. Get hooked, gain 60 second immunity 2x to do what ever you like. I think it should de-activate if you touch a generator or/ and get fully healed.
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You're right that we won't get anywhere so we can agree to disagree.
On your second point, I'm ok with repairing gens disabling DS but not healing. Especially with quick healing builds (We'll Make It, Botany) and the syringe. A killer with a one hit down power or perk, which are already powerful, would become even more powerful.
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I think that is actually really good point. Assuming you got saved, healed with We'll Make It in 8 seconds to full (lose DS) and fast killer like billy, spirit nurse then can just tunnel you out.. well it wouldn't be very fair.
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