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Please, make early game exist again.
Just had a game, mother's dwelling, so large map of course.
Patrol gens, as soon as map starts,
No gen being done,
loop back around to the nearest gen,
find a survivor near killer shack.
mindgame the shack so they immediately have to throw it down or get hit. They throw it down, break shack pallet.
They hold w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fv1rD82kmM)
Catch up, they run to another safe pallet. They immediately throw it down, 0 loops. I break it
They hold w.
Catch up to them, bloodlust 1 happens (remember, no looping, they just held w after i broke a safe pallet).
Land a hit.
They start to hold w.
Ding, Ding, Ding.
3 gens pop.
What am i supposed to do there? I mindgamed shack so well they had to literally immediately throw down the pallet, no looping. They held w until they got to another safe pallet, and didnt even loop it, just immediately threw it down. Then held w again, and when i finally land a hit, bam 3 gens pop.
Comments
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I'm getting really over "Killer spawns at A, survivors spawn at B as far as possible away from A, all together, and have a gen 75% done before the killer can walk to them."
It feels like it's every single match. They spawn as a team, there's no isolation or figuring out where the best direction to go is, or "maybe I'll do some totems and open chests," it's just "we're all here, do this gen."
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Had a few matches on both sides with similar scenarios.. 2 generators pop within 2 minutes.. and then another one a few minutes later.. then a stalemate because they went to work too fast and ended up 3-4-5 gen'ing themselves.. Yes it sucks having generators get done that fast.. but it doesn't mean you'll lose in the end
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I don't think it's a losing situation, I just think it's taken a lot of the fun, the fear, the atmosphere and the hunt out of the early game. Every match seems to just be looking to see which gen is furthest away and finding 3-4 survivors on it.
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It is 100% a losing situation unless you tunnel/camp/slug and the survivors make several mistakes. I hate playing like that, but they make me do it.
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Then do it. Do you think that if gens were slowed early game than tunnelling/camping/slugging would be discouraged? It would be the exact same thing. It would simply be a 4k at 4 gens left instead of 2.
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No, what i think they should do is fix gen speeds and camping and tunneling in the same go. make the game more fun for everyone. This isn't an either or scenario. Both playstyles are a problem and not fun for either side. So why not fix them both?
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I’m hoping the new “start game” or whatever will help to draw out the match a little. Even as a survivor main, I hate gen rushing. It often forces the killer into playing dirty and you don’t get as many points. I like searching chests, cleansing totems, and just racking up BP in a match. It’s no fun for either side when it’s rushed.
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I had a trial where I spawned on the Nurse FOV, it was the worst thing ever when you consider which killer it was but killer spawning NEAR (not on) survivors can make M1 killers stand more of a chance for early game,
But there also early game mechanic being worked on already so it's kind of an useless topic to discuss right now.
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Main problem with maps is super safe pallets and combo loops. Fractured Cowshed is a great example, a god pallet into the shack into a long wall into a god pallet, this kind of thing is common on the older maps.
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I'm playing both sides. And I hate tu tunnel or slug as killer, but sometimes there's nothing else you can do, because of the pressure on gens by the survivors. Had a game against legion yesterday with thanatophobia and he was able to kept us survivors injured so the gens went a bit slow (most likely because we had 2 self care player who were healing themselves the whole time) . In my opinion gen speed should be the same as it is right now with 4 men injured with thanatophobia. It's not too slow and you have a chance of pressure as killer.
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BHVR tried to fix camping and tunneling and it didn't work. They abandoned any attempt and since then the official position is that those are intended mechanics because they can be punished by rushing gens when done at the wrong time.
I disagree, especially considering the experience of Deathgarden, but this is how they want their game. So, at the end of day, you have to accept that sometimes you have to play 'unfairly', because that is how the game is intended to work.
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What worst is they spawn at near gens with 2~3 team all together.
I feel like i'm using free Shroud of Union/Binding just like everyone get free ironwill.
Sometime i finish the first gens SO FAST that nobody even get chased, downed or injured since i always bring Prove Thyself and other guy using toolbox
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I'm not saying that i'm against an early game but Killers have learned to become very efficient with out a lot of slowdown. When they do implement the "Early Game Collapse" some killers will feel really oppressive. I almost always 3-4k every match as it stands currently.
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Each survivor should have to interact with a randomly spawned fuse podium exactly like the crown
Except its completely invisible to killer
And they get the ability to do gens after individually.
That small small warm up would let the killer place traps and use his limited vision to gain map awareness
And instead of hooks they work like cages do, randomly teliported farthest possible point from all players
no aura reading both sides.
If killer is in the area without another survivor within 42-36M the hook teleports again after 10 seconds of camping.
With perks affecting maybe insidious only letting you camp. And empathy only letting you see someone hooked.
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They never tried to fix camping or tunneling in a smart way. Like there are some simple design mechanics you can do. Maybe survivors just get a speed boost for 60 seconds after getting unhooked, to discourage you from tunneling. But also during that time, they repair gens much slower.
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On Ormond, it can be impossible to stop a generator from being done, even if you know where it is.
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Same with mother's dwelling.
Just got out of a match, 23 pallets i counted. 8 of them were god pallets.
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Another match as pig. Crotus Asylum
Spawn in, entire team on 1 gen,
it damn near pops before i get there.
Hit 1 off the gen.
Hit another off the gen.
everyone scatters.
Pick an injured guy to chase. Gets a god loop inside the asylum, (have to loop 3 times to block the window) So i leave him.
move on to uninjured guy walking by, hit him immediately.
He holds w. Loops me around the center building once.
Mindgame, got him. Trap, and hook.
Ding ding
2 gens pop, i hear a guy working on a 3rd, go up and pop it. He drops through and abuses the god loop, so i go back to the hooked guy to catch someone unhooking.
Catch an injured guy unhooking. Trap and hook.
hooked guy removes trap on first box, find another injured guy. He abuses the loop
Ding. another gen. (the original one they spawned on)
Why bother? I landed like 6 hits, got 2 downs and a hook and everyones immediately got their traps off, abusing a god loop in the middle of the map and 2 gens pop as i get the first chase.
PLEASE MAKE EARLY GAME EXIST AGAIN.
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This is a cool story, but feels like you've missed out several details maybe because you want to build a specific narrative.
Firstly, reading between the lines it sounds like it took you forever to find your first survivor. You said that no gens were being done, but if that were the case and noone started working as the match began, then they wouldn't have had time to finish the 3 gens in the time it took you to land your first hit. My take from this is that you took a bad patrol route and when returning to your original spawn point found the one guy who wasn't doing gens. If you struggle with finding survivors i strongly suggest using whispers. It's probably the single strongest tracking perk, way better for early game pressure than corrupt.
Secondly, based on the situation you described it sounds like they started holding w as soon as they dropped the pallet. You should observe what the survivor does before mindlessly kicking every single pallet you see. If it's safe and the survivor stays to play it, then kick. If they abandon it, there's no reason for you to kick it, unless you plan to go for a different target right after that. Also, sounds like you broke the pallet on the same side - loop around and push them back to where they came from - you know they've already wasted resources in that direction.
The point is, don't blame the game for your mistakes. Nobody's perfect, but by blaming the game you rob yourself of the opportunity to understand what you did wrong and get better. I know it's easier to chalk it down to "bad map design"; "survivors holding w is OP" or something along those lines, but most of the time people just fail to acknowledge their own shortcomings.
Last bit of advice - try to think for yourself and stop drinking up popular streamer's words like gospel. Doing so is a great way to find excuses for your own mistakes instead of learning from them.
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Think about it from (Solo) survivors perspective. They are against the clock to get the gens done before the killer sacrifices someone.
Now throw in killers that have huge pressure (Freddy, Billy, Nurse, Spirit, Oni) and then it’s literally do the gens or gg.
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Bro, i have 1000+ hours, this isn't me asking for advice. Early game is a problem. Everyone knows it. If it wasn't a problem the devs wouIdnt be talking about doing some kind of early game warmup like EGC. I wasn't recording at the time but i wish i was, but i do time my games. It took me 25 seconds to find the first survivor, during that time they weren't doing the gens on my half of the map i spawned at, because they don't spawn there. I patrolled every gen on the map, and not a single one was being done, they were playing immersed, so i loop back around to where i think they spawned, and i find one on a gen.
Within 5 seconds, they waste shack pallet, which is a god pallet. Don't tell me to "wait to see if they play it" its the ######### shack pallet. You have to break it, any moment i waste not breaking it is wasting time, because the instant they see me not breaking it, they can just stand there and do nothing.
They hold w to another safe (certainly not a god pallet) and i did wait a second, i know because they teabagged me. So i broke that one. Then they hold w and run in a straight line, its mother's dwelling after all so there's plenty of room.
There was no "they just held w while i broke the pallet and i didn't wait." There was either no point in waiting (shack pallet) or they ######### teabagged me at the second one. It was literally 25 seconds into the match that i found the first survivor. Keep in mind that this is the biggest map in the game, and takes nearly 40 seconds to cross the entire thing.
This game is a math problem its basic math, you don't need anything else. Lets pretend for a minute that loops, windows and pallets don't exist, and all they do is hold w. Killers and survivors spawn on opposite sides of the map. If every survivor immediately hops on the nearest gen to them the following happens.
Takes 20 seconds to cross the map, lets say maybe it takes survivors 10 seconds to run up to the gen. Now lets do the math.
10 seconds to find the first survivor.
20 seconds for the first hit.
They hold w. Takes 20 seconds to catch up. I know, because it's long enough for bloodlust to start.
Get the down.
Look around to make sure no flashlight/pallet saves coming for about 3 seconds
Pick survivor up 2 seconds
Walk to hook and hooking them 10 seconds.
Now time to add.
10 seconds + 20 seconds + 20 seconds + 3 seconds + 2 seconds + 10 seconds
10 + 20 + 20 + 3 + 2 + 10
50 + 5 + 10 = 65 seconds.
At that point, you got your hook, by the time you figure out where to go next and start walking there. Ding, ding ding. 80 seconds has gone, and so has 3 gens.
Now factor in that looping exists. And that pallets and windows exist. If a survivor gets to an unsafe spot, add another 5-10 seconds to mindgame it.
If it's a safe/god pallet, forget about it, it must be broken and now you need to spend another 25-30 seconds catching up.
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Freddy's pressure is overrated. His power is basically a worse clown that can teleport to gens.
Billy is getting gutted.
Nurse is still the best killer in the game by far, read my above post doing the math, and it will show you why i'm a nurse main. And is the only one who actually has a chance these days.
Spirit is useless given that sounds are bugged half the time with people randomly getting iron will.
Oni is the only one who actually makes sense on. He loses those 3 gens, but does build up a lot of mid-game pressure. But if survivors play safe and don't try to get extra loops, they can just run from pallet to pallet and make sure he never gets a hit, just throw the pallet early and he won't have his power for most of the game.
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I'll tell you what though, since this damn near happens to me every game the past 2 days, tomorrow when i play i'll record all my games and upload them so you can see what i'm talking about.
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The "I have 1000 hours in the game" argument doesn't actually mean anything - if you're unwilling to learn from your experience then it doesn't matter at all how long you've played the game. You could have 5000 hours and still struggle with early game pressure.
Your math still doesn't add up in the situation you described, which is why I'm forced to read between the lines. In the beginning you said that noone was working on gens whilst you were patrolling the typical spawn points, but then still add half of that time when calculating their time to work on gens.
Furthermore, the fact of the matter is if you have 1000+ hours in the game you should know where survivors spawn (which you claim you do) and even though a gen hasn't been started yet, they'll still be in the area - crouching around or looking for chests/totems, i.e. waiting out for you to pass in your initial patrol so they can immediately jump on the gen after you've passed by. Search the area.. I guarantee you'll find someone. Again, whispers is an amazing early game perk and a great overall tracking perk.
Yes, the devs did say they're doing something about early game. Do you remember when they nerfed ruin? The idea was that good survivors didn't mind working through it, so it only punished new players. Among other things it was a qol change to make the game experience more enjoyable for beginners. This early game thing is quite similar. Good players shouldn't struggle mount pressure from the start, but newer killers need help in the fact that they usually have gens popping left and right before they even manage to get their first down. This change should cater to those people.
Regarding the pallet thing. I completely agree about shack - kick that when you can, unless you're trapper or hag. Regarding the other pallet - again, teabagging doesn't mean they're playing the pallet. Also, why didn't you zone them or at least fake playing it to make them lose some distance (i.e. pretend you're looping the pallet and then snap your camera back to break it. the survivor will start looping and will only begin to make distance during your break animation, not before it)
and.. what killer were you playing by the way? You never even mentioned using your power, so the only ones that would make sense are oni or myers (with every other killer there should have been at least a mention of you using your power). Both of these are snowball killers, who would quite frequently give up a few gens at the start of the match at no real detriment.
I'd be glad to watch your video and happy for you to prove me wrong.
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Not true. Survivors spawn a lot closer to the killer than you think. What you described is actually very rare.
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No gen speed slowdowns. Make an early game where you repair at 50% Stops at first chase. Gens are hella boring to do and making them take longer would kill the game.
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Didn’t the devs say they have a planned fix for early game? I wonder when it’s gonna get implemented.
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no killer really likes doing to but there no other way.hope the new early(EGC)slow thing down.
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I can verify that as a discordance junkie. Almost every match discordance goes off about 10-15 Secs into the match. By the time I get to the gen, it's either just popped, or at 95%. But gen speeds are fine. There's no such thing as gen rushing...
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This is why I don’t get the devs mindset when it comes to the game...
Devs: We’re nerfing gen times of multiple survivors on a gen so that killers have a chance to get across the map before a gen is complete
Players: Why not just stop making ridiculously large maps?
Devs: 😠
This post inspired by Ormond. Start out and Discordance lights up on the very opposite corner gen within 5 seconds of the game starting.
As for the strength of holding W this is true and has been noticed for a while. It’s especially prevalent on indoor maps. This is why despite some people calling for Bloodlust to be nerfed I think Bloodlust 1 has a place in the game. Bloodlust 2 and especially 3 should go since those are normally used by bad players to tackle loops on a 5 gen chase, but bloodlust 1 is mosty used when it comes to survivors holding W.
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They confirmed on a stream a start game slow down of some sort is coming in the future
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