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Remove Camping Advantages; Remove Hook Grabs
Comments
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Because whenever someone makes an unreasonable request, then they're just being entitled. So they're gonna get called an entitled BLANK main, if a survivor whines that noed is overpowered then a killer is just gonna call them entitled, same thing will happen if a killer says unbreakable/decisive strike combo is overpowered.
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Stop unhooking in front of the killer and you'll stop getting downed. lmao.
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Nurse question: because she’s not an instadown killer. There are perks that give her this effect.
Killers dropping from top floors can still interrupt hook saves. Just not a two health state grab. Same for stealth killers. Ghostface and Myers both have instadown mechanics, but earned.
I know you said just about but I am a killer player.
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At the moment, survivors take advantage of the grab anyways, they'll start saving for just half a second so that when the killer goes for the grab, it starts then stops, allowing the survivor enough time to save, and since the killer was likely stuck in an animation, they'll only get one hit off, allowing both survivors instead of trading with the guy who saved right in front of your face.
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This is the exact standoff I’m arguing about. I know you’re saying the grab cancels but in my experience the killer just M1s.
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The killers M1 for the most part because of the broken grab, but when there's multiple survivors nearby, the killer really can't afford to M1 because if he does that survivor will just run away and another will say. I don't like camping until end-game, I don't think a single killer should be judged for camping during the end-game, but if you just had a bad match against a swf of toxic survivors and they're swarming you like moths while you're camping the hook, then removing the grab would make killers get bullied at yet another thing in this game.
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LOL, I literally just got hook grabbed by a Hag running Rusty Shackles so I had no idea she was behind me when she hook grabbed. She'd killed one and the last guy screwed up my unhooking or latency got him cuz I died on first hooking from that dang hook grab ayyy. I was flabbergasted because I hadn't seen a hook grab in so long. Flabbergasted I tells ya!
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Your thought process is very close to mine and I’ve experienced all the things you mentioned.
I am not anti-EGC camping scenarios either nor look down on that strategy because it’s all that’s left often times. Survivors can leave in that scenario.
I am against killers who give up after two gens pop during early game, hook a player, and wait for a grab because they feel they cannot compete with defending generators or win chases. I think the two health state grab is a crutch for killers and reinforces the poorest gameplay in DBD.
If in order to get a down it is equally as good to hit someone twenty meters away as two, the killer loses incentive to face camp.
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There is like one camping killer in 50 games perhaps, it's so rare it's no problem at all. Some is being camped one game and can't stand losing so they make threads like this. Just play the game and get better.
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If it’s so rare, then you won’t be missing the two health state grab.
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That would be nerfing Hag for no reason. Hag makes these grabs without camping, just survivors being careless.
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You're replacing one bad habit with another bad habit that's not the way you fix a problem.
Saying camping is bad habit is a bad habit let's implement something that make hook diving stronger which is also a bad habit.
As for hooking close to an exit again usually in certain situations you don't have much of a choice you down someone by an ex again just before they leave or before they get it open you don't really have the option to drag them halfway across the map. You could get as far away as possible but you also need to realise it's still going to be within reasonable distance for them to get away.
As for the idea that end game scenarios is basically outplayed is not really a good thing I don't think that's a proper justification for that in the same way I don't think the way people try to dismiss complaints about exit gates proximity are a good thing when there's only one survivor left and the hatch is closed.
It also opens up another situation what if 2 people decide to run up to the hook as someone who plays killer I have often had lots of people just dash forward to the hook giving me next to no reason to leave
Your perspective seems to be coming from the vacuum situation of the Killer just facecamping the first person they down when there's still 5 gens left.
Overall removing hook grabs is just going to be something that is open to abuse there are better ways to discourage camping than letting survivors play without the leash of consequence.
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While it is rare and petty, there are the scenarios you're referring to where a killer camps one person because they specifically want them to die. My problem with that scenario is that there's already so many second chance related hook perks that in the event the game you hooked is apart of a swf, you're gonna get blinded if you're not careful, then someone with bt is gonna save, and now the guy has ds to get away, there is NO catching that man once that happens, but that's only on the extreme hand of the spectrum.
There's always the case where someone just solo-queues and they get face-camped, in THAT specific scenario, I believe grabs should be removed, because the randoms just don't have the proper tools (sometimes intelligence) to save you, and that is probably the most unfun you can have in dbd, besides maybe getting slugged the whole match. At the end of the day, camping is a foolish thing to do during a match (besides end-game) and if I see that there's no point in saving, I'll just apologize and gen-rush. Camping is a scummy thing to do and it takes advantage of other's kindness.
Basically I don't think removing grabs is the right solution, but there should definitely be something done about it.
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I think the developers are toying with this idea of reducing camping right now. The Executioner nerf removed the ability to deny cage unhooks (thanks OhToFu). The Cannibal and Hillbilly nerfs removed chainsaw camping.
I would agree to removing hook grabs until exit gates are powered, but I think implementing a differentiation into the game code may not be worth doing.
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Other teammates stop trades that wouldn't be necessary if you just grab them.
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It would be removing bad gameplay mechanics, not nerfing Hag. Nerfing Hag would be giving the same limitations Executioner has with his trail to Hag traps. (Exec’s trails quickly disappear from a radius around hooks and generators.)
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If this is a non-EGC scenario, this is killer advantaged due to the slowdown implications. Multiple injuries. Objectives not being progressed. If it is an EGC scenario, then the killer probably played a very poor trial.
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Leatherface camping definitely needed to be removed and they did that wonderfully, still disagree completely with hillbilly's new rework. Honestly, I grinded the living hell of PH and it surprises me that I didn't even consider that you could camp the cage, I knew you could tunnel but it definitely was a good move to make the cage teleport.
Usually I can come up with decent solutions but I can't seem to think of any good answers to this one.
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This content has been removed.
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Actually no I am excited for the LF changes, but then again I dont camp like you just implied I do.
If they remove that grab from hooks than they will remove it from lockers, gens, totems, chest. That's an insanely strong buff to survivors and an insanely strong nerf to killers.
While that grabs not intended for camping uses. Maybe find an alternative route that is successful instead of this.
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I brought up Cannibal because he had a direct strike to his ability to camp a hook. It was a positive change and removed an unfun mechanic. I think this change is in theme with the chainsaw changes and the Executioner changes.
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This thread is a joke
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Is it? Because now I have zero hook pressure while everyone I'm not chasing is free to work on gens.
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Problem is both sides have things that have no counter play, so if we take one of those from one side the other side now has a huge advantage, and yes u have no counter play u can do yourself but considering it's 1v4 and 4 perks against 16 I'd say it's actually kinda fair how it is, killers are punished in a way when they camp as others in this post have said, survivors can finish pretty much every gen b4 that person dies so its really a bad idea unless that survivor kills themself on hook and in that case it would be the survivor messing the team over.
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Do gens or leave them. It's usually not worth saving one guy if the killer is hardcore camping. Especially in the early game. I always hate when my teammates do everything BESIDES gens just to save me or someone being face camped. They give the killer pressure and kills. Meaning that they're going to do it more often since they were rewarded for it. Removing hook grabs removes risk for healthy survivors and means you can't interrupt them anymore. So it's a guaranteed unhook no matter what.
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Oh so you think killers should just let survivors unhook for free? What sense does that make? If the killer is camping hook go do gems or something.
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Because they are gonna offer up some unreasonable change that only aids them.
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This whole thread is relying on if the killer decides to camp. The scenario I'm thinking of is if I'm chasing someone and they decide to loop me around the person on hook and eventually farm that person right in front of me then this change makes no sense. It doesn't make sense that I don't have an opportunity as killer to counter-play with a grab because they decided to make a bad decision.
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How about instead of making it easier for a survivor to get an unhook:
For every second the hook is within the terror radius of the killer WITHOUT being in a chase, the killer loses bloodpoints and/or emblem progress, starting off after a set time in order to get away from the hook (say 10 seconds). In an extreme case, you could even give survivors a boost to action speed while this bloodpoint drain is in effect. I'm not saying I think that's a good idea, it's just an idea to further punish camping.
Likewise, for every second a hooked survivor is within the terror radius of a killer not in a chase, they gain bloodpoints and/or emblem progress for occupying the killer's time?
With this change, it punishes killers for standing at the hook and not doing anything, but doesn't punish killers who are getting hook rushed by the survivors.
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No one said killers were entitled to kills.
But you're the one there saying, "B-b-b-but what if the unhook is never safe?" as if you can't handle the idea of not getting the outcome you want. Like some magical unhook fairy should come down and produce your preferred outcome for you.
No, if the unhook is "never safe" then go do something else. Stop standing there in a bush wringing your hands for who knows how long, being useless to your team, and wondering why the killer isn't doing what you want or why BHVR isn't forcing them to.
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I would like a sort of kindred as base kit for survivors (changes: after 5 seconds of being hooked all survivors can see the killer in an X radius (8m?) of the hook - not the other survivors so that kindred still has a use - maybe also add another buff to kindred to compensate). It would be a huge buff to solo Q. Plus the 5 seconds, or however long, lets killers like hag and trapper setup without giving it away to the other survivors (I know SWF counters this but thinking about solo here).
It won't solve camping but at least the 'just do gens' part will be a fair argument.
Simultaneously (not after) I would like survivor perks that revolve around hooks to be looked at too.
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Makes no difference to me. Grabs never work anyway.
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There is a very big difference between broken perks and being camped. Killers and survivors both have things that are pretty broken, sure, but even if you are up against survivors running sweat builds, usually if they are not a SWF they aren't coordinated enough that there is absolutely nothing you can do against them. As a killer, you can at the very least make an attempt against them and get one or two. You are still, be you a survivor or a killer up against broken perks, able to play the game to an extent and make an effort.
Being camped, however, means that player in unable to play the game, get any points and it is an automatic gg go next for the person on the hook.
Like the two situations are not the same. One person is up against an OP thing utilized by people who wanna win no matter the cost, the other person is pressing spacebar and dying after 2 minutes because a killer decided it's more important for them to ruin the match for at least 1-2 people.
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I'm sorry, but any killer can camp. Quite a few have strong game at it. 2 can even cross map camp you. Your making excuses you even avoided what i pointed out.
Your upset about a mechanic that's in games and meant as a punishing tool against bad survivors. Hook grabbing has counter play.
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Why haven't force-fields made of rainbows and pillows after the survivor has been hooked been implemented yet?
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I think it's already been removed.
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Bro stop! You're embarrassing us survivor mains.
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Me neither. But campers will camp no matter what. Honestly, unless I know someone's around the hook because I saw them, I'll always go elsewhere after hooking someone, because I need to find the other survivors. And if I can't find whoever's around the hook after 5-10 seconds, I'll go look elsewhere, because they might not be there anymore, and I'm not going to waste my time looking for them if they're well hidden when I could be chasing people off generators elsewhere.
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Survivors should be awarded plenty of extra points if they are camped to death before they reach a certain point threshold. Leave killers and hook grabs alone. If someone wants to ruin another players experience by not allowing them to play the game, then that survivor should be awarded extra points.
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I dont think that's a good idea. The point of hook grabs is punishing survivors for making unsafe rescues
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It's almost like hooked survivors are an objective? If survivors aren't progressing gens or healing what else should you do? Ignore the hook? I don't understand survivors who complain about camping like the killer is just supposed to ignore the 2 or 3 survivors near the hook.
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Yeahhhhh I'm sorry but this is easily the dumbest suggestion as it actually doesn't help the problem your trying to solve. Killers mainly camp when they know survivors are nearby to counter bum rushing survivors and waste survivors time as they could be on gens instead they're sat near the hook waiting to go for it.
There are perks to deal with camping if you hate it so much. Ds, borrowed time just to name the obvious. Also, grabbing is the only way to actually deal with borrowed but even then its risky as you might lunge, or fail to grab by accident. It happens. And more often then not survivors make bad plays and save at a horrible time, sometimes mid chase!!!! (like why??? Unless your scarifcing yourself instead of them to buy more time) grabs are important. And a constant threat to survivors. Like hiding in a locker. It's a gamble but it can work.
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Did someone forget to crouch to the hook against a hag
Removing grabs won't solve your problems
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They shouldnt remove grabs from unhooks cuz then survivors will just rush hooks, yea some killers camp the entire game cuz they dont wana chase and whatever but for higher ranks sometimes you hav to patrol a hook to confirm a kill for pressure.
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Yep. I play both roles alot. From a survivor standpoint, most of us are just looking for a way to make this an equal opportunity game where both sides have a relatively even chance to " win ". Not entitlements.
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I get what ur saying but the problem is it's 1v4, for one of the 3 it's bs I agree, but but the killer usually loses anyways because other survivors can gen rush while it's happening, ig what im tryna say is that it makes sense that 1 survivor wouldn't b able to do something against a killer but the killer doing this to one survivor pretty much helps every other survivor escape, so while u can do nothing, now everyone else can do something, a killer however is by himself against things like that(ex:Locker DS) but in the end opinions r just opinions and I respect urs. Have a good day✌️
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