Reworked maps are still survivor sided.

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Yamaoka
Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321

Can we stop placing extremely strong tiles right next to each other especially when time and resources are used to rework maps with the intention to make them balanced? The only reason I gave the killer the pallet was because I felt bad. I could have just taken the hit and left the loop without using the pallet as I had a purple instaheal / bottled time anyways.

Please stop balancing maps around rank 20 gameplay.

Comments

  • BubbaMain64
    BubbaMain64 Member Posts: 546
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    Don't forget the Groaning Store House can also have 2 of the god windows open. And Gas Heaven can have to back entrance.

    They were fixes, but that doesn't mean that the problem is solved.

  • MeltingPenguins
    MeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,742
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    The whole autowreckers haven needs to have that big mountain of cars broken up... it's a pain to survivors and killers lbr

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,350
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    Yeah that setup is quite crazy, but since the map reworks i feel like these situations happen much less frequently. The corn maps for example are pretty balanced the majority of times, at least in my experience. Its just rng that can screw you over at times, but i would even say that can happen to both killer and survivor.

  • LetsPlayTogether
    LetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117
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    Wow you "outplayed" a Rank 20 clown. Good job.

  • LetsPlayTogether
    LetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117
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    You mean lets just pretend there is an issue cause many killers dont know how to shut down loops.

  • Alice_pbg
    Alice_pbg Member Posts: 6,556
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    tbf... he could have gotten a hit or the pallet at 0:30 if he didn't double back again.


    but yeah... really strong set of tiles there

  • YaiPa
    YaiPa Member Posts: 1,929
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    go on. Tell us how you would have dealt with this setup. Of course I intend from the killer role, you know, the role you clearly have 0 knowledge about.

  • hinoutoumei
    hinoutoumei Member Posts: 294
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    The entirity of how this game works from the mechanics, layout of the maps, perks, ranking system, emblems...

    it all needs to be rebalanced, which I believe they are slowly working on. It's a live game, so a lot of the time these problems cannot be addressed as quickly as others would like.

  • TKTK
    TKTK Member Posts: 943
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    That is a very tired excuse these setups have been in the game for years man, it's sad that they only now learned how bad there map design has been for 3 years since the past year they have addressed how problematic this type of map rng is.

  • Terra92
    Terra92 Member Posts: 583
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    You need to chill out with the insults, you're taking this very personally.

    Ignore the posts you don't like and answer the ones who are contributing. You don't have to answer to everyone.

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 8,049
    edited July 2020
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    While you can argue the structure is strong, this killer also was HORRIBLE at the chase. You can't expect the devs to balance the game in a way that a killer like the one in the video who is running the tile poorly will still get the hit. This was simply a matter of this killer REALLY not knowing how to utilize his power effectively, nor how to run cowtree. A better killer (as in player, not character) couldve scored a hit or forced the pallet down within 15 seconds.

  • Terra92
    Terra92 Member Posts: 583
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    That's what you took away from that post?

    Maps have been shown time and time again that there are no survivor-sided maps. There are a few killer-sided maps and a few maps at 55%, but nothing below 50% kill rate.

    Tiles, tiles and pallet spots are the random implement in the game that vary difficulty for killers, but just because you find personally easy to avoid killers does not mean that every killer that goes against you is matched specifically to your skill level. Everyone is different, you're not always going to get the best killer, just like you're not always going to play your best every game.

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321
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    Personally I think kill rates aren't a good indicator for map balance due to 1 simple fact: Most survivors don't use maps effectively. I see it on both sides, too. People dropping pallets AFTER getting hit or without looping one single time despite having good distance and people are rarely even trying to combine pallets with near-by windows because reasons.

    If survivors played optimally (which does not include me) map balance could be determined way more objectively.

  • Terra92
    Terra92 Member Posts: 583
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    People don't always play optimally, killer and survivor both. Optimal play is such a niche factor in even the smallest moment in a game. You can play optimally in the first half of the game and blow it for the rest. You can play optimally while on final hook but completely whiff it on the first two hooks.

    If the standard for playing the game is excellence beyond measure, the gap between the learned and the learning would be way too big. Take the level Road to Nowhere in Crash Bandicoot, touted as the most agonizingly hard level in the entire franchise, it's even harder in the remake, because of the updated controls and physics. The level required precise timing on everything you did in order to make it to the end, and if you missed, instant death, start over from the beginning/last checkpoint. That's just for a single player game with less than 10ms of input lag. I

    Imagine that sort of optimal play being necessary in a multiplayer game, where both sides have to deal with varying differences in ping, ranging from as low as 40 to as high as 3000. They need to consider so many different things without immediate knowledge of the killer's delay, there's absolutely no way anyone could play optimally like that and still enjoy this game in the moment. The same goes for killers, if they memorize every variable and adjust to it each map they're just playing an algorithm, not a game.

    Kill rates might not be the best indicator for map balance, but nothing really is. You can make an argument with any statistic and it could likely work in your favor.

  • Zeus
    Zeus Member Posts: 2,112
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    Even though it's not perfect, the Devs definitely made this game better than before. The map rework surely fixed a lot in terms of God loops and pallet placements and I definitely felt it.

    Besides the Devs said something about adding breakable walls to older maps along with the graphical update. They'll be looking into loop balance as well for all I know. So the balance will still change.

  • Dead_by_Gadfly
    Dead_by_Gadfly Member Posts: 3,772
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    Azarovs is stupid with the amount of pallets. They can literally just run from onrme pallet to the next and drop it with 0 mind games. Its stupid

  • th3
    th3 Member Posts: 1,811
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    I barely play clown but that guy kept doubling back unnecessarily and using his bottles at weird spots.

    I would have ran the meat tree the opposite way to prevent fast vaults while throwing a bottle near that space between the long wall gym and meat tree vault. As a survivor I would have utilized the jungle gym more to use that window and possibly juke him but thats off topic I just like thinking about how to run tiles differently to throw killers off with iron will :)

    It is a strong setup but that seemed like a less experienced killer who was making mistakes and didn't read the setup you had or used his power effectively.

  • Rivyn
    Rivyn Member Posts: 3,006
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    Then you have maps like the Temple of Purgation where a pallet spawns at every possible tileset.

    I approve of smaller maps, but sometimes the size reduction isn't even noticed when you have crazy tile set placements that make for incredibly long loops.

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 8,049
    edited July 2020
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    In all fairness on Temple... those pallets are generally on the most BASIC of loops meaning theres often not a window around or anything to extend them for any real length of time. Unlike pallets at Jungle gyms that you dont have to throw for awhile, the pallets at Temple are good for 1 or 2 loops in a circle before theyre tossed. This is completely looking past the ones in the main building that are 100% useless and makes the entire downstairs a giant deathzone if the killer finds you down there.

    As a killer main...Temple is generally one of my favorite maps to play on since it's generally easy to clear the pallets that ARE there and you never have to chase a survivor for very long to make progress on that front. If you know to keep your chases short and drop chase before you waste too much time on 1 survivor...you'll do fine.

  • Rivyn
    Rivyn Member Posts: 3,006
    edited July 2020
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    @LordGlint O, I know they aren't exactly placed at crazy loops. And I do agree that you can usually run them twice before dropping one. That's still a lot of pallets to power through before rendering the area a dead zone, and by then, you could have two gens popping.

    I personally don't mind Purgation all that much, except when I'm silly and wiff a swing to fall down into the basement. But the general idea is that all the map changes really did was shove tilesets closer together, and allow more pallets to be chained. Preschool variations do this as well.

    I think my real issue with Purgation, is that at least half the pallets can't be mindgamed. All those low wall make it nearly impossible, unless you get lucky and have a tree spawn in. So, again, you're stuck powering your way through and looking for that pallet drop. It's not particularly fun.

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 8,049
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    Generally theres about 2, maybe 3 pallets around a gen before you render that area a dead zone and those pallets tend to last roughly 10 seconds each. I tend to keep an eye on the ones closest to the main building since the gen in the downstairs of the building is basicly a built in deadzone and the building itself limits where survivors can run to if their doing the gens in the surrounding area. With all this in mind, even if your "powering through" 2 or 3 of these pallets...thats still not alot of time invested and you shouldnt be losing 2 or 3 gens for that.

  • Kellie
    Kellie Member Posts: 1,328
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    If I were him I would've just left.

  • DemogorgonMain
    DemogorgonMain Member Posts: 11
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    Yeah, for the most part it was fixed. There are still those areas where it's just hell on earth as a killer, but these spots aren't super common.

  • Snowbawlzzz
    Snowbawlzzz Member Posts: 1,419
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    I think the intention is for certain areas to have extremely good loops, while others (patches of trees, corn) are deadzones. The goal as killer in this scenario is to bust down those strong pallets early to have an easier late-game. Clown also made huge mistakes trying to mindgame instead of just chasing you straight until you had to drop the pallet.


    I really don't have a problem with these good pallet loops, as once they're kicked they become useless to the survivors. It's the god window loops like groaning storehouse that seem unfairly set up to hurt killers. I don't know if it's a bug or not, but I also had 3-4 windows spawn in the Mother's Dwelling house and I simply could not catch up. I had to abandon chase if they made it to the house.

  • DragonMasterDarren
    DragonMasterDarren Member Posts: 2,771
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    NGL if i so much as see a Haddonfield or Ormond offering i am reaching for the DC button, i straight up do not give one damn

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,545
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    Their're still working on maps... Think of the ones that didn't get changes I.E. Haddonfield and Ormond come to mind

  • YaiPa
    YaiPa Member Posts: 1,929
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    yeah, this opens up on the double standards devs are balancing the game, expecting killers to be experts while handling everything to survivors.

    • that's not a real suggestion, since survivors still have backwards vacuum pallets, so you have to guess;
    • a good placed bottle will do nothing until the fast vault procs eons before (i.e. 0:40), also killer related suggestion, not every killer can counter the setup
    • everything else you said pretend that the survivor is not taking advantage of the sprint burst after the hit, rather staying in that zone,
    • forcing the mid vault on the cow loop gives the survivor a fast vault on the jungle gym instead
    • you have to eventually reload the bottles
    • sure, you will eventually down the survivor, but not in any near time.
  • xenotimebong
    xenotimebong Member Posts: 2,803
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    I don’t think they’re complaining about the pallet, but about two really strong windows back to back (cow loop and long wall). Even once the pallet was thrown and if the killer pushed the survivor the correct way around the cow tree, they still had access to a really strong window. Chaining together two strong tiles like that is the issue, and it’s the same reason Ormond is so painful.

  • Acromio
    Acromio Member Posts: 1,737
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    Why does this surprise you?