Stop Whining Ab SWF
I encountered someone in a game that brought a Mori, and prob the most toxic build he could. I ask his reasoning and he claimed it was because he knew we were a SWF (we weren't). He started ranting about how there was a "rebellion" starting against SWF. This whole thing made me really mad and I started thinking about it. Why do people complain about SWF so much. I understand if you're going against a really toxic 4 stack that bring flashlight and borrowed time and we'll make it and such, but that's not often the case. He complained about SWF groups having "comms" which I feel is something so utterly dumb to complain about, mostly because it should be a normal thing to have game chat between survivors. And isn't communication and teamwork the only way you could really make it out of the trial? Anyway, I just think it's ridiculous that people actually complain about others wanting to play a game with their friends and "having comms" out of all things like jesus are you really complaining about a mechanic that should be in the game by default? Haven't killer mains ever thought that maybe we wouldnt have to squad up in a discord if they just added game chat, or even a radio like in Friday The 13th? Now listen, I could say a lot more things but I have so many rants ready that I am losing track of what I'm saying already, so listen, I am not a killer main and barely play killer, maybe I am missing a part of the puzzle, so If you disagree with something I said, please comment and tell me. I want to see your side of this.
Comments
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In short you encountered someone who is making excuses for not knowing how to play killer.
As for ingame chats: I think it's alright that there isn't one as such, my personal vote would be on more gestures for both, survivors and killers to communicate (i mean, after all, there are a lot of good players out there who'd like to tell a killer they need to drop some pallets etc it's one thing to be unfair and give the killer an advantage, and another to 'work' with them to get a challenge in)
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You dont seem to grasp the idea that comms is unbalanced in a 4v1 game like this. Killers will get destroyed at red ranks if every survivor could talk to one another
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I get you're ranting, but please consider using paragraphs. It makes reading and understanding text a lot easier.
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As for the topic, yea, people really shouldn't whine and complain.
But that applies to both sides. Not just people who play Killer.
In-game, people are free to use the strongest stuff they have available to them and use it how they want to while facing you. You are also allowed this.
If you feel something is too strong, you may calmly explain your reasoning here on these forums. Ideally providing suggestions to improve said thing.
But ranting doesn't really change anything.
As for SWFs on comms, they are crazy strong - having reliable team communication is a huge advantage to Survivors in DbD.
Whether it should eventually be part of the base game is up for debate, but in the current game it gives Survivors a massive advantage and makes a number of perks obsolete.
Make no mistake that it is a strong tool and that making it base right now would break the game.
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Game isn't balanced around voice comms. It's balanced around randoms who do not speak with each other. That's why we have kindred. SWF only makes it harder for killer and is definitely unfair.
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HAHAHAH
killers will stop whining when it stops being a problem, does it suck that he brought a toxic loadout? yes, but i can't blame him when SWF with comms is so prevalent and widespread
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So i learned that now We'll Make It is considered toxic.
Having comm is really strong and never should be implemented ingame.
Yesterday i played with a friend and even as 2 people, that usually only play solo or a lot of killer games, that it's already really strong. Like you don't need certain perk such as Bond or Empathy, you can tell if you are getting chased or if the killer is going torward your friend. So i don't even imagine what it's like to play as 4 and having the position of the killer at all time.
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Complaining about comms is not “utterly dumb”. This game is designed to be played with no communication whatsoever. swf groups on comms is considered cheating and it ruins the game.
This comment which I read some time ago summarizes it perfectly : “The game is balanced around survivors being disorganized and lacking in communication. Allowing them to organize and communicate breaks the game.”
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I never knew we'll make it was considered toxic until now.
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The problem is not with swf per se but the comms that come with it. It negates several killer perks like hex: the third seal, part of stealth killers, setup of trap using killers and so on.
It also makes several survivor perks obsolete like kindred or bond. Couple this with a experienced looper using object of obsession and the survivor have non-stop knowledge of the killers position.
Unrelated to the experience of the swf group it allows for some form of coordination staying on hooks while others go for hook saves or loop the killer.
I just recently rewatched a series of old YouTube videos of a group of mediocre players (rather known German let's players) going in as a four man group.
While they each individually suck at playing survivor (no looping, correct use of pallets or even watching behind them to see the killer), they grasped the advantages of comms really fast.
They still managed to make 4 man escapes by simply telling each other who was engaged with the killer, who was doing gens and trying to do coordinated saves. All this at experience level where the killer should still have the advantage (rank 20-17, fresh not deranged).
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well me neither but OP seems to consider it ^^
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4 man SWF is a plague on killers and solo survivors. Hell, even 2 man groups is okay because they're not straight up triangulating the killers position the way 4 man swf does.
Also, the devs seem to try to balance survivors with swf in mind only. Completely neutering all semblance of fair solo play for survvors.
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The thing is once a gen is done its gone for good. You’ve probably heard some killers rant about “tunneling gens” which sounds ridiculous but there is something behind it. Getting a gen out if the game is like getting a survivor out of the game. Its gonna lower the objective count and change the efficiency of survivors. Consider this, 4 survivors trying to do 4 gens or 4 surviors trying to do 5 gens? 3 survivors doing 2 gens or 3 survivors doing 3 gens? In the latter example they can split up giving them more map pressure, or rush 1 gen in half the time
Heres how swf affects the game as an example from 2 games I had recently...
1) I knew this team wasn’t a full swf. Not sure if it was solo or 2 man combination. I see one survivor constantly trying to finish a gen thats almost complete. I kill that survivor and hit the gen. That one gen regressed to nothing because nobody knew about it. Thus saving me a generator.
2) This was a full swf team (all friends on steam). One gen was almost complete. I kill the Nea that was working on it alone (Only survivor there and Discordance didn’t activate) but I knew they would tell their friends about the gen. Nea is dead but i cant afford to stand around a gen so I turn my back for 5 seconds and sure enough someone runs to complete it.
This happens a lot. Hell I play 2 man swf and me and my friend will tell each other if we have a gen almost complete but the killer starts to chase one of us. This gets 1 gen out of the game and stops the killer making it regress.
Not to mention swf can communicate to rush specific gens like center of the map gens ensuring the final few gens are far apart. We do this on Azarov’s so that the killer doesn’t hold one side. As we only play 2 man swf though sometimes we get 3 genned as theres no communication with the other survivors and some survivors dont think about what gens they’re doing. In a 4 man swf though this wouldnt happen.
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Killers complain because their on their lonesome while being against 4 people who have communication. It's a reasonable complaint if your were open minded about it. Also, communication with teammates is NOT a necessity because I've solo queue from 20 to 1 without being a swf and I'm sure others have also so it's not something to be expected to have because it's not particularly neccessary. Not everyone who plays survivor needs people to carry them and communication in order to actually do good in the game. Swf teams is an understandable complaint, you may be that person who doesnt play killer and only survivor so you dont understand let alone have the experience of being deprived of the power role that killers usually take on. Be open minded about this. Because you sound awfully narrow minded.
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In perspective it is unfair, yes.
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Thanks everyone for replying, I now have a different perspective on swf and comms.
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They've definitely been making adjustments with swf in mind... which leaves killer in a bad spot and solo in a horrendous spot.
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No 4 perfect survivors beats any killer well good survivors beats any killer but not all survivors are that good in fact the playerbase is pretty bad anyways. That is grossly exaggerated. Most swfs I see only know how to do gens no loops what so ever.
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Well I guess I don't go against your 'most' swfs then.
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That's exaggerating badly if you are going against "sweaty" sets all the time I think you are the problem and need to improve as a killer.
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Survivor isn't hard. Everyone knows how to run tiles. That's not sweaty, but they do now how to run loops. I barely ever go against sweaty sets, and when I do, I still destroy them as hag or wraith, but DAMN is it annoying to have a object of obsession, DS and unbreakable guy. Losing isn't the problem with me, it just takes the fun out of the game going against a sweaty set.
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Stop whining about killers bringing a mori and "the most toxic build"
You know that he wasn't talking about pre-game chat. He was talking about survivors being on discord together while playing the game and being able to communicate things to each other that perks in the game do. You know there is like 14 perks that survivors have access to that only give information to and about what other survivors are doing? All 14 of those perks are given to survivors when they use discord to communicate with each other.
You aren't wrong though, i personally think that fixing SWF is not about nerfing them or allowing killers to not play against them. The way to fix SWF is to buff solo survivors by giving them more information and then buffing killers to compensate.
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"I am not a killer main and barely play killer, maybe I am missing a part of the puzzle, so If you disagree with something I said, please comment and tell me. I want to see your side of this.'
Well that's your first problem right there. That's a lot of the posters' problems. This has been explained to death. Nobody wants anyone to be punished for playing with their friends, we want the developers to provide a means for dealing with players with comms. It doesn't get any complex than this and yet people still have the dumbest ######### responses to this. That being said, a "rebellion" is cringe. I understand using a mori to even the odds, there's nothing wrong with that. I am very against taking your against players because it does nothing and it messes up the stats which make things worse. The developers ain't gonna care about that.
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Friday the 13th is a bad example because you could hear players in proximity, voice chat does not break the game. Friday the 13th: The Game has its flaws but it actually feels like a horror game and is fun, it doesn't push you to be competitive and you're not really punished for losing. Dead by Daylight is as serious as a heart attack, not playing the way the game wants you to will punish you so both sides are going to be frustrated no matter what. Hell, I could ignore the flaws Friday have because I am having a laugh even when I am losing. DBD not so much. An unfair lost to lets say comms will make you feel ######### because you're losing a pip, you won't gain enough BP, and the game has a ######### FTP mechanic despite the game costing money so the grind is unbearable then you have the end game chat to look forward to---boy how I love four people calling me racial slurs and attacking my sexuality. It's wonderful.
The developers will be better served to take a hard look at their game. Again, the Friday developers are incompetent but I don't feel pressured or serious while I'm playing because the game itself does not foster such an environment.
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There are a lot of salty killers who will rage at SWF. There are many, like myself, who realize that a multiplayer game SHOULD have an SWF function as that is the whole fun of it. There are those who feel comms are cheating, but let's be real for a minute. This game was not made in 1999. It was developed post 2010. Cell phones, video chat sites and millions of ways to communicate were everywhere. If they did not think about the possibility that survivors would get on comms then they were likely the most ignorant and incompetent developers ever. I don't believe that. "But SWF options came later!" Really, nobody thought someone would get into a lobby and say "here's the link to our DbD Discord channel guys. Sign in and let's play." I see this even now.
The problem is that they did not give the killer enough tools to counter SWF comms. The reason SWF is frustrating is because it gives the survivors so much information. What's the use in running Knockout when comms can say exactly where they are?
I run Trapper. One survivor sees a trap while I'm chasing him and instantly tells the others where it was. The Trap is disarmed before the chase is done. It really does upset the balance of the game. Especially the beginning of the game where the killer is at his weakest.
Is it cheating? No, refer to my development statement above. Is it an unfair advantage? Most definitely.
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Well considering I beat a 2 player swf one with 3000 hours and one with 1500 (about 10 mins ago) and still complain about swf... I dont think i need to improve as killer.
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SWF is a huge advantage regarding information. You can't deny that and the devs don't do anything to balance that out.
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That's a 2 man swf not a full 4 man so your point is?
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Not sure if you can read, but my point is I don't need to improve as a killer because I beat a small swf with that many hours. Usually with the 4 mans I go against, they have no where near that many hours (total and combined) and they still beat me because the more players on comms the stronger they are (Another player had 2000 hours as well and the last had around 700 in the same previous game). You said you don't go against very good players or swf, and I'm here to tell you that I do. So no matter what you say you can't change my idea that if all survivors were on comms they would be strong.
Any form of swf is strong and if you cant see that then...well not sure how to help you. Also you said that the swf you go against can't loop but can do gens. That means you will get gen rushed and they will mostly all escape, unless of course you slug them all. However if this is not the case then you do not go against these 'strong' swf that I am talking about.
Lastly, just check how many people Upvoted my original post and then consider what you are talking about :)
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Yeah I get that but still 2 man swfs arent as big of a problem its 4 man sweaty swfs who are coordinated. If you cant handle a duo then I still think you are the problem.
Upvoted mean nothing as the killers of this forum hate swf, I have seen post asking it to be removed! Or to show pre game so they can dodge every lobby.
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I hope some day if you play killer tell us how unfair is playing against a 4 toxic swat swf whit comms.
They have an ugly advantage and still denied that.
At some point when im tired of this crap ill bring my moris and my sweaty nurse, that way i can have fun too :)
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Okay, once again you have failed to read by post. I did not struggle against this swf so I myself am not the problem. 4 man swf are very hard and unfun to play against, if you disagree with this then there is no helping you
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