What's wrong with meta builds?
I just had a killer complain about the people on the team having DS, BT, and DH. But how do you complain about that and have NOED, Pop, BBQ and Ruin. How do you whine about meta builds and run a meta build. I've seen survivors do it too.
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He is simply a loser.
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Survivors running strong perks are "meta", while killers running strong perks are called "sweaty" and "broken". I understand the frustration many killer mains go through when they get flamed on by a swf of 4 unbreakables and DS because the killer ran NOED.
Overall I don't think he even meant it, he was probably just pissed, it happens to everyone.
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It's not really "meta builds" that are a problem, if you're running DS, BT, DH and Unbreakable, you definitely have a small penis.
Also, BBQ has a counter. A very easy counter (requires no perks, but there is also a perk that counters it). Pop also has a perk that counters it now. Ruin can be destroyed, and has multiple perks and items to help you find it, and NOED...well, NOED is literally the most counterable perk in the game. It can be destroyed before it's even had a chance to be used.
DS can only be "countered" by slugging, but slugging isn't a counter, cause that counter has a counter. It's called unbreakable. Even if they don't have unbreakable, DS can actually have situations where there is nothing but the killer can do but accept that they are going to get outplayed by a skillcheck and that survivor will escape. Dead hard can be baited, but baiting a "Deadheard for distance" play is nigh impossible, and can extend a loop by half a minute if done right, all because they hit "E". Borrowed time has counters, so I'll give you that.
So these aren't really good comparisons.
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The simple answer is that survivors only have to play around ONE opponent running a bunch of meta perks (up to four total). Killer usually has to deal with FOUR opponents running a bunch of meta perks (potentially up to sixteen total).
Plus a bunch of survivor "meta" perks are rather controversial (usually considered somewhat overpowered) such as DS and Unbreakable. Maybe it's just my opinion, but I don't find that most killer perks are ever really considered overpowered or problematic beyond NOED (which isn't truly OP, but tends to generate frustrating gameplay situations) and PGtW/Ruin (which are situationally strong perks). There are certainly people who claim that BBQ & Chili and Borrowed Time are also OP, but I personally find those accusations unwarranted.
It's all a perk arms race. Killers feel they need to run the best stuff to keep up with survivors who run THEIR best stuff. But survivors also tend to run the best options available in case the killer brings strong perks of their own. I think if DbD can eventually reach a point where there are always multiple viable options to pick instead of one standout perk for a certain category/archetype, then this may become less of an issue. Some great examples of this happening already are Self-Care vs Inner Strength or the variety of Exhaustion perks on offer. Examples of this idea done poorly are how Unbreakable puts all the other anti-slugging perks to shame, or how almost no anti-tunneling perks really exist besides DS.
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if you think using dead hard effectively is really as simple as just hitting E you're wrong. No one had unbreakable. He went out of his way to message me and I was running Quick and quiet, lithe, DS, and BT. I literally didn't use DS because I didn't need to.
Post edited by CWill22 on0 -
But Perks like Ruin, Pop, and NOED have the ability to affect all 4 survivors at the same time. DS and unbreakable is viable for exactly 60 seconds of any match. I agree with you that BT and BBQ aren't really that great but they are considered meta.
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Nothing is wrong. The perks are in the game to be used. And it’s honestly as simple as that. And that’s regarding killer AND survivor. Stop telling people how to play.
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60 seconds x 4 = 240 seconds = 4 minutes.
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I don't see any reason to insult me like that, man; and it's a fact that with dedicated servers the way they are, dead harding for distance, which has ZERO counter, because it's done way out of reach of the killer, does NOT have a counter and is also the most effective way to use it these days. There's a difference between dead harding for distance and simply using it to avoid a hit. And yes - all you do in order to dead hard for distance is hit E.
If you're going to call someone an idiot...well. Never mind, I'm not like you. I don't need to insult people. :)
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I don't agree with this guy on certain things but hes correct in this. So many survivors use Dead Hard for distance to make a window or pallet and not for the immunity to a hit. The fact that you had to even ask what the problem with Meta Perks is shows your overall lack of knowledge in the game.
If you want to go into further detail as to why DS and Unbreakable are incredibly broken and unfair for killer put it like this. Thers 4 survivors, generators take 80 seconds with 1 person to complete without a toolbox.
If each survivor gets on their own gen at the start of the round and begins to work on it while the killer is searching for even their first chase they will probably have about 10% on it by the time the killer finds someone. The killer is chasing 1 person around for lets say 30 seconds, a really fast chase. Brings them to hook and hooks them, that takes lets say another 15 seconds. So far 45 seconds total for 1 hook, and that is a really really fast situation. Each generator will be around 60% at this point.
Now lets say as he is looking for his next chase two or 3 gens pop, now what? Even if he wanted to tunnel the guy off the hook to get rid of him to create pressure since they are rushing gens he can down him, but he knows he has DS. He has two options, leave the guy on the ground for 60 seconds of complete invulnerability and hope to chase other survivors while they are on gens, and pray he doesnt have unbreakable, or take the DS.
Now imagine that x 4. Thats 4 minutes that you can't touch survivors, and each gen is only 80 seconds.
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When stacked killer's meta perks still have counter play.
When stacked survivor's meta perks have NO counter play.
One of the main fundamental design flaws of the survivor 2nd chance perks is that they prevent the counter play of the other second chance perks most notoriously being DS and unbreakable when stacked.
DS's counter play is slugging and unbreakable counter play is picking up the survivor which means the killer can't slug you nor can they pick you up.
Individually Unbreakable is a well balanced perk but if stacked with a badly balanced perk like DS makes them both overbearing to play against.
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Assuming all 4 have the combo when its actually really rare because most people aren't dumb.
Post edited by CWill22 on0 -
I'll apologize for that but it's annoying when people act like only killer takes skill. DH for distance is the same as enduring or spirit fury because they have similar impacts. I understand what you're saying but don't downplay that it is hard to loop a killer when realistically killers have every advantage in chases.
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I see it every now and then. But they are mostly the rank 1 players abusing the ######### out of it just because they can.
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That's 4 mins that you can't touch one individual survivor it's not like everyone is unkillable at once. And to say I'm lacking in knowledge when my question is really why people whine about meta builds when they have meta builds makes no sense.
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It's the cycle. Killers see players running meta perks so they think they need to run meta perks, but then survivors see too many killers running meta perks so they think they need to, it never ends.
One day everything will be nuked from space and we'll only have lightweight, plunderer's, small game, and deja vu on survivor side, territorial imperative, deerstalker, monstrous shrine and distressing on killer side. And then everyone will complain about those perks being broken and op. Somehow.
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I never said only killer takes skill - but objectively speaking, killer does require more strategy, time management and attention, and thus more skill. I don't think that can be argued. Survivors have a lot more freedom and room for mistakes in that regard.
As for DH for distance having a similar effect to enduring/spirit fury, yes, they do - but enduring/spirit fury have become exceedingly rare lately unless its being run on a killer with existing mobility in their kit (not nurse and spirit, though, for obvious reasons); because slower killers need slowdown perks in order to even have a chance to apply gen pressure. Unless of course, they tunnel and proxy a 3 gen with a hooked survivor in the middle, but believe it or not, most killers don't like to do that.
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You're argument depends on many individual factors and the only time your scenario would only ever happen is in a SWF group which everyone knows is broken.
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You are right that it depends on if the survivors have those perks. But in red ranks 80% of the builds have those perks. All it takes is one unbreakable to lose a game.
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I agree that killer takes more skill but survivor does take skill as well and obviously is an asymmetrical game so of course survivors can make more mistakes. This doesn't take away from the fact that although you say you just press E the survivor does have to use it at the right time for distance or it will be useless.
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Of course they have to use it at the right time, but the window that we call "the right time" in terms of using it for distance, even you have to agree, is pretty heckin' big.
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DS and BT yes. UB nowhere near that often. DS and BT are kinda needed to counter camping and tunneling although both are rare you never want to not have those perks. I run both in my main build and only use DS like once every 10 or so games.
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That's very true. I think that we should agree that killer takes more skill but acknowledge that survivor isn't as easy as killers like to pretend it is.
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Okay, even without unbreakable. you still have 4 minutes of not touching survivors if every survivor has DS. It's not okay to literally make the killer unable to do anything for a whole minute in fear of getting stunned and losing a kill entirely.
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How often do you only find the survivor that was just unhooked? Because when I play its pretty rare that the killer isn't in another chase after someone is unhooked and usually the unhooked survivor is healed doing a gen by the time the killer is back on them and by then DS is gone.
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In red ranks quite often. Especially towards end game when either theres no generators left or 1 left to do. Especially if its a SWF they will coordinate and take their DS into consideration and will sometimes for you to either slug them, which will allow them time to crawl to exit, or take the DS which again will stun you so they can escape, or you slug them and they just get healed by a teammate.
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I also play red ranks and very rarely see this. I didn't even think about endgame but if you can only get one kill endgame anyway you probably got outplayed. I definitely get the SWF thing tho but like I said before SWF is a massive advantage anyway.
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You mean you jumped in a locker right in front of a killer so he is forced to leave you unless he wants to eat DS?
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No, I literally didn't use it as I said. I don't like the whole "locker tech" thing I think it's abused. I only jump in a locker when I'm getting hard tunneled and I know if I don't the killer is gonna slug me and proxy camp until it goes away.
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I personally hate bbq but only bc wglf doesn't have another benefit like it does. Tbh I hate it in the name of fairness lmao
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lol yeah I was saying that WGLF should get a buff the other day.
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Using dead hard effectively is literally as easy as pressing E to get to a window or a pallet. Why do you think so many of us jokingly say we get "outplayed" when the survivor presses E without a thought to get to safety after they messed up?
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😆
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There is only ever a problem with 'Meta' when someone on the opposite side uses it.
Doesn't really matter which side you are on, if you are using a method proven to work then you are (Insert childish name here) and that's about the long and the short of it.
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