It's only toxic when you have intention to be toxic
Title.
There are too many things that are offensive for people: some of them hate to lose, some of them hate when they are given "mercy kill/escape", some hate things like Noed or DS or Head On, others simply don't mind them, there a even demogorgon haters or no mither haters and so on. Basically, everything can be toxic to at least one play.
So, if there are so many different and often controversial things that define toxic behaviour for people, then maybe it's not very right to define toxicity by the feelings of the "offended" side. After all, you could be offended by everything so we shouldn't be playing the game at all? Can't please everyone. Maybe, it's better to define toxicity by an intention. When somebody wants to ruin game for other people and that is their number one priority (and not to have fun/win etc) it's certainly is toxic without any ways to interpreter that other way. Moreover, if somebody behaves "toxic" and has no benefit from it other than pissing of the other player it also makes such behaviour toxic with no other way to interpreter that.
What do you think? How do you define toxicity? Do you define it by "if it offends me, it is toxic" or you use other means to define what is toxic.
Comments
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i define toxicity as "disrespectful behaviour intended on annoying or otherwise provoking the other side"
this includes, Teabagging, Flashlight clicking, Facecamping (before EGC) and tunneling (also before EGC)
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Can you give me an example of when tunneling and camping was done with the intention to not be toxic?
Also I guess if the killer is farming, teabagging and flashlight clicking can be seen as friendly, otherwise it's just annoying.
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Toxicity depends on the eye who sees it as you well said. I don't define toxicity as anything since i don't care what survivors does in my game. Even if i don't kill anyone i'll earn some juicy bloodpoints so for me, its a victory despite of the final result.
But well, you said pretty good in your message.
People finds toxic sometimes being blinded by a flashlight, teabags... Well, the common stuff i guess.
At the end, if you don't find it toxic and you are like me (chat deactivated), nothing is really toxic.
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Agreed. If someone's doing these things with the intent of being a jerk, that's toxic (although I generally don't define anything as "toxic", because it's a pretty strong word, and I mostly use it to refer to real-life cases of abusive behaviour). If they're teabagging or flashlight clicking for example to move the Killer's attention away from for example an injured teammate, that isn't really a bad thing, though.
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the things I define as toxic are the ingame chat (when people are toxic in it) and survivors actively working with killers to kill other survivors, unhook them, killer kills them again, they unhook, etc repeat. everything else is just playing the game.
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I guess you didn't specify this, but I suppose you are talking about tunnel visioning (and facecamping) a certain survivor and killing (or trying to kill him) even at the cost of losing the game.
Facecamping and tunneling can sometimes be a beneficial strategies to win the game - basement bubba, pyramid head tunneling and etc. Yeah, these are certainly annoying, but these are sometimes the only (or simply different in case of bubba) ways to win the game and have fun.
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During EGC where that's the only possible way a killer can try and secure a kill
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You mentioned before EGC in your post tho. Any examples of that?
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How is facecamping/tunneling the only way to win a game? That just means you're really bad.
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you can tell when someone does something in a toxic thing not always meant to be toxic but it can become toxic.you know what i hate and no one talk about it to much is the noise making survivors jumping back and forth on something makes me nuts.
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My favorite debatable one of them all.People who say that pressing buttons to go up and down is toxic.Not toxic at all it’s literally just people pressing to go up and down just like when a killer Is nodding their head at a survivor.
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I spoke to a killer the other day about this and found this a really interesting answer.
He wanted the survivors to work hard - and as a team. (I've played against him before and he is a really good killer. ) The survivors don't challenge him enough - so this time he deliberately camped the hook. This left the survivors two choices.
- Let the teammate die.
- or have one distract - and hope for a chase and the other one saves. In his mind the survivors need to be able to do that as players.
He wanted to play. He wanted the team to come try - get slugged - get the teammate off the hook and chase .
I found that an interesting POV.
I agree with the original posted that it's only toxic by intention.
However:
Toxic to me is when players try to ruin the game for others by behavior that they know will insight issues. Toxic is not a playstyle. It's being abusive and inconsiderate towards others.
- Swearing and being nasty before or after a game without cause - yeah Toxic. No excuse
- Playing with the Killer against your teammates - Yeah toxic. No Excuse
- Belittling a killer when they are trying their best. Maybe they are learning a new killer or just starting. Or maybe they are like me and suck at the game but they try. Example: telling them they suck etc. - Yeah Toxic. No excuse.
- General unsportsman like conduct. - Yeah Toxic. No excuse.
- Cheating. This includes SWF on mics co-ordinating making the game 100% harder for the killer and neglecting their other solo teammates. - Yeah Toxic. No excuse.
I think you can sense a pattern here on what I think toxic is :-)
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The simplest example - over altruistic survivors. Why play default chase-hook-chase-hook etc and have chances to lose, when you can use their altruism to your advantage? Yeah, it's risky, but it can work, as most survivors just can't let go of a hooked comrade.
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Tunneling and camping aren't always intended to annoy. There's times where you'll be playing a map like Cowshed, or Haddonfield, and 3 gens pop in the first 2 minutes. At this point, either you play by the survivor rule book, or you tunnel someone out of the game. A lot of the time, if you don't do that, you just lose.
Still though - in reality, nothing in the game is toxic unless it goes against the rules set by the devs. Players don't determine toxic. The people who write the rules do.
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Fair point, but it's still ruining the game for the person being farmed. Wouldn't that make it toxic?
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That's tricky. On one hand, yes, because you are technically ruining his game. On the other hand, no. That's certainly can and is annoying, yet you are not pursuing a goal of "ruining" the game. After all, many people are salty simply because they lost the game, so what, we should let other people win or play worse just to ensure their fun? Exploiting your opponents' mistakes is a part of any PvP game and DbD is not an exception and if there is a possibility that, in case of facecamping or "baiting" tactics, survivors will go for rescue instead of leaving that person to die, this strategy has its right to live and is not toxic.
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No.
A person not having fun/liking something that's happening does not make that thing toxic.
Toxicity is an attitude/state of mind. An intention.
You could argue that the players FARMING that person are being toxic, but there's absolutely nothing toxic about the killer taking advantage of survivors screw ups.
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do you understand what EGC is?
at the end of the game, when everyone is alive and ######### on the killer, the only way he could try and secure a kill is by tunnelling a injured person and camping them, all but the most entitled of survivor mains agree on this
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It's not that simple. If I walked down the street and gave someone the middle finger, how would that go? Why are you mad? I'm just showing you my finger bud? It's just a finger?! Teabagging is the same way. It's the symbolism of the act. Its a statement that says F U. So whether you think that way or not doesn't matter. The fact is there are many people who get upset by it. So don't flip them off, it's not that hard.
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To me, there are only 3 things that constitute toxic behavior.
Survivors:
Purposely ######### over your teammates by throwing all pallets when not in chase, sandbagging a teammate so they die, and alerting killers to your presence by failing skill checks.
Taunting at the exit gates when you are guaranteed to get away. Personally this annoys me both when playing killer and survivor. It is just a scummy thing to do to taunt someone who has already lost. Can make the killer feel bad and really taints your win. I can accept when I team is better than me and I like learning new things, but you don't need to rub your skill in my face.
Killer:
Hitting someone while on the hook. I know with the changes it isn't a huge issue anymore, but some killers can still do it. Even so, killers can still swing their weapon at survivor on hook. It goes back to the survivor point that you are lording your skill over someone. That said, it is dumb to do this when the game is still running. I have a bigger issue when someone is the last left and is hooked. It's just a scummy thing to do.
Post edited by Samwise444 on2 -
Exactly. There is definitely play that's more obnoxious but everything at this point gets called toxic, to the point you can't event combat community toxicity because the definition of what's toxic is so watered down at this point that basically if you are playing the game you are toxic.
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I agree with your comment. I do play a lot solo survivor and when I am at the exit gate it's just to see if the killer downs and hook any of my teammates so I could save them. But when there are like 10 secs and everyone seems ok then I just go away. I do believe in sportmanship, if someone does their best, they don't deserve to be laughed at. And that goes for every game/ sport.
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I completely agree with your above comment. It makes sense as a survivor to wait at the end for everyone or body block when necessary to make sure as many people get out as possible.
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You seem like the type that gets triggered by people pressing to go up and down.Come back and talk to me when you’ve stopped acting mad over buttons being pressed.
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In answer to the title, no, things can be toxic that aren't intended as such. Mostly due to a complete lack of empathy, rationality, or care for consequence. Do you have any idea how many people genuinely think that it is in any way okay to run the Immortality Combo, or the name Scott Jund uses, the small pp build? Just using those two perks is inherently toxic, even if it's not intended as such, because you are abusing 2 already (possible overly) powerful perks to become literally unhookable regardless of what you do or how you play.
Or you could be a member of a depip squad. Or you could be a basement bubba. Or you could run an ebony Mori for the 60k daily and go "sure, I burned it, I may as well get the full use". Like it or not, all of those actions beget toxicity and directly ruin another players experience unfairly. It's not a directly competitive game where your opponent has an equal chance that you do to exploit stuff, asserting dominance over another, heavily disadvantaged player is still 'bullying' whether you intend it or not.
However, that isn't to say that trying your best to win is toxic. If the killer has someone hooked in a good spot, that's not toxic to patrol them. If the survivor has a gen almost finished, it's not toxic to pop it in the killers face. If some moron goes for a farm, it's not toxic to hit the farmee. If the killer has a snowball going, it's not toxic to UB out of there (though it is somewhat questionable in terms of general fairness).
Toxicity is doing something that you don't have to that directly negatively impacts the other side, or potentially even your own side. Accidentally doing something isn't toxic. But, for example, if you know the maths behind DS/UB and continue to use them in conjunction, then that's toxic, because it's poisons the community as a whole.
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It's just a sound, why are you so mad.
It's just a combination of letters, why are you so offended?
There's a quite a noticeable difference between bad manners which is bming and using some certain playstyles or stuff that is allowed.
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If I was mad don’t you think that I would be using all caps and using colored text in red?.Seriously people get over it if you don’t like when people press to go up and down you seriously have issues.
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I'm just continuing your logic of "why are you mad at survivor pressing a button".
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I equally play on both sides do your research before saying people are one sided.
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Tell that to the ones, that thinking saving with a flashlight and body blocking are always 100% toxic, and not maybe because I want to try to save someone.
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Did I say something about you being "biased"?
Like it was said, it's not about buttons being pressed, but about the sign of disrespect shown through "pressing button up and down". You are not winning the game by bming. You get no reward, no points, nothing expect negative reaction. That's toxicity and you can't deny that.
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I had a game the other day where it went down like this. I hooked someone and turned around to get use my pop on a gen. Within 5 seconds, they unhooked the guy. This happened twice. So both times it told me they like to hook save very quickly. So the 3rd guy i hooked, i camped. And what happened? Someone was right there waiting for me to leave, and started looping me around the pallet next to the hook, i hit him and as i do i see the other 2 survivors running for the hook save. 1 of them does a hook trade, and it repeats.
At the end of that game i was yelled and cursed at for "camping" like a noob. When the reality was, they were being overly altruistic, and camping was the best play there.
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i agree with you and i'd like to add that online games are mostly toxic, dbd or any other, and there is always a choice to avoid listening or reading what "toxic" people are saying. but weak people still choose to read/listen and get upset over it as if its something new that people online are toxic. grow up and have a better mentality and avoid reading/listing to those who hurt your video games feelings its really that simple.
its a choice, and cry babies choose to be beaten* down online rather than look away/mute and just leave after the match...
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No thank you. I don't talk to ignorant people. Feel free to keep making pointless posts designed to trigger me. But I won't take your bait.
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It's called empathy. Get some. If someone tells you you are doing something that bothers them... You don't double down and make it worse....you are a scumbag if you actually think this way
And to clarify...I don't get pissed at tbagging. Even if you say I am mad that doesn't make me mad. But I know it upsets people So I don't do it. ITS PRETTY EASY.
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Endgame chat, sandbagging, missing skill checks on purpose(with bond), unhook right in front of killer to farm or not unhooking at all.
Anything else is just people being snowflakes
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When the killer is losing grip on the game and needs someone out ASAP? I tunnel in this scenario - that survivor left alive still does gens, even faster in the case of resilience!
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FYI the Devs are 100% fine with people being t-bagged so clearly it’s allowed.If you don’t like it don’t play DBD go play Minecraft.
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That's a dumb thing to say. Minecraft is one of the longest running and most successful games in history. Are you a kid? This seems like so etching a kid would say. Just because the devs don't punish something doesn't mean they don't frown upon it. But keep up the mental gymnastics so you can continue being a scumbag I guess. Glad I don't know you in real life. Also, for the third time now... I don't care about tbagging, it doesn't bother me, but enough people are very upset by it so I don't do it. That's called empathy, since you don't seem to know what that is.
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Adults play Minecraft to you know it’s not just for children.And good job assuming that I’m a child last I checked 24 years old isn’t a child.
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