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Possible Solution for "Boring Killers", "Unviable Killers", and "Gen-Rushing"
There's been a lot of discussion of "boring" killers recently. Essentially, these are killers that are perceived as being too strong in a chase, leaving the survivor with little opportunity for counter-play. This further leads into a discussion of the 1v1 vs 4v1 issue: How do you balance 1 player having a fair chance of managing the actions of 4 other players while also making sure the interaction between the killer and 1 survivor in chase is fair? It seems like the killer either needs to have a means to traverse the map quickly, or be strong enough in chase to make up for it. If neither of these are true, the killer is deemed "unviable" because they simply cannot apply enough pressure before the survivors complete their objective. Without pressure, the survivors will simply do their objective and escape, leaving the killer feeling "gen-rushed".
My proposal: A portal system, specially crafted by the entity itself, that every killer can use to get around the map more quickly and efficiently. This would work similar to the portals in Doom Eternal's BATTLEMODE. In this mode, the portals are available to allow the Slayer to reposition on opposite sides of the map and apply pressure elsewhere.
This solves 2 of the 3 problems immediately. If all killers have a means to get around the map quicker, killer players should no longer feel "gen-rushed" as they now have adequate opportunities to apply pressure to the survivors. This helps balance the 4v1 scenario. It also means a lot of weaker killers won't feel as "unviable" anymore and a greater variety of killers can be played at a high rank/skill level instead of a player feeling like they have to play as the top 4 or 5 killers to perform well. This obviously benefits high rank/high skill survivors as well, who I'm sure are tired of going against the same killers over and over.
So how does this solve the "boring" killers problem too? Well, if speed is no longer an issue for killers, they no longer have to be strong enough in a chase to compensate. The developers can instead focus on fine-tuning killer powers, buffing those that are too weak and nerfing those that are too strong, to make sure they have equal opportunities for counter-play from both sides. This helps balance the 1v1 scenario.
TL;DR
Idea: A portal system mechanic that all killers can use to traverse the map quicker.
Movement speed outside of chase is no longer an issue; killers don't feel "gen-rushed". Helps with the 4v1 scenario.
More killers become viable; survivors see a greater variety of killers in their games, especially at high ranks.
Killer powers that are too strong or "boring" can be nerfed to be more fair and fun to go against. Helps with the 1v1 scenario.
Thoughts?
Comments
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I should also mention, the portals don't have to work exactly like they do in Doom Eternal. Maybe the killer can't use them at the start, just like Freddy's cool-down on his teleport. Maybe there's a cool-down for how often the killer can use the portals. Maybe there's a global audio cue when the killer enters a portal. There are plenty or ways to balance it if it sounds too OP at first glance.
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Gen rushing doesnt exist anymore, all nerfed. Only mories left.
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The nerfs to toolboxes and such have made it less obnoxious, yes, but survivors can still get gens done very quickly. Killers like Clown will lose gens very fast even if they end their chases quickly, because they simply can't apply enough pressure to survivors to stop them.
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If you can get 2 kills, thats fine.
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2 survivors, one with Prove Thyself, do a gen in 40 seconds
That means if you take 30 seconds to down a survivor, and 10 seconds to hook them, you lose a gen every chase
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Imo I just think every killer should have some pressure in and out of chase to remove the lessened viability feeling. Killers like Deathslinger though have no out of chase pressure to compensate for his massive in game pressure which is fine. Or vice versa but a killer that dosent do well in chases ain’t going very far.
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This is a great idea, I've always thought mobility should be a given for all killers since being only 10 - 15% faster when you have to traverse an entire map constantly is incredibly unfair. It's one of the few things I thought F13 got right; granted maps were much larger there but it's a joke that people still say "just apply pressure" when sometimes going to a different gen takes more than 1/3 of it or more. On top of this killers have to look for survivors in the area, giving other survivors a chance to do theirs freely.
When people ask killers to just apply pressure they either ignore the fact that there can be MINIMUM 2 survivors on gens at ALL times or somehow this is balanced to them.
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I mean, that's kind of what I'm trying to address. An ability to traverse the map via a portal system gives killers pressure outside of chase. Then killer powers can be re-balanced so they aren't so oppressive in chase. Is there a reason you think this would not work? I'd love to hear different opinions or suggestions!
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I think it would but Instead of a having a generic thing for every killer, make it so each killers has their own form of map pressure, like Traps, Rbts, Blinking, neeroom chainsaw. Only some of them need changes, I will agree that most killers have enough pressure. Minus Clown, Wraith(yellow windstorm), and a few others
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Resident Doctor Main here,
Usually when I play, 2 kills are the minimum I try to get, either for challenges or whatnot. 4Ks are always what we killer mains strive for of course. Sinerely,
Resident Doctor Main
P.S. Is your username a reference to Detroit: Become Human?
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I'm not too familiar with F13: The Game, but I think it's similar to Last Year: The Nightmare, right? The killer can traverse the map freely, but can't interact with the survivors while doing so. That means the killer player doesn't have to worry about playing catch-up, but their 1v1 capability is more balanced.
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The "2K" average satistic matters to the devs as much as my opinion does to them given that they have literally never acted on it.
If they did they would have buffed the nurse after her rework as she had sub 2k average kill rate when they said that.
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Not true its around 45 seconds. Pt doesnt do very much.
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I'm not against that at all. But the major issue I see with that is it would be more time-consuming for the developers to come up with a unique movement ability for every killer and implement them individually. A system that would work for every killer across the board would be much more efficient and simple.
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The wiki will tell you it's 40
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PT was nerfed. It doesn't do that anymore. Wiki must have not been updated.
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Yes, 28 stab wounds. It is perfect for playing Laurie and Legion.
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And suddenly demo is an utterly useless killer because of these ridiculously op suggestions. Hell, I'm a killer main and I find these to be ridiculously op. I wouldn't want something this op as a killer, it would take the fun out of the game.
You realize if there's a teleporting system it basically gives killers the biggest advantage right? It means by the time survivors only need 1 or 2 more gens, since you can teleport across the map it'd be easier to3 or 4 gen survivors into Oblivion. What this would also do is completely change the meta around for what gens to save for last. Instead of doing the middle gens to save outer gens for last, you'd have to do it in a way that leaves a gen on each end of the map and one in the middle. This would still be super unsafe for survivors. A teleporting system would make a survivors late game infinitely harder.
If you're getting genrushed it's because you don't have enough pressure on gens, or you're camping and tunneling too much. If a killer is "boring" for you, that's just your personal preference.
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For those of us who haven't played Doom Eternal's Battle Mode... how are you going to differentiate these from being a free variant of Demo's power that doesn't require set up and can't be removed by Survivors? Or a free variant of Freddie's Teleport?
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I would rather them buff individual killers because for those killers who don’t need this system, you’re essentially gonna have to nerf them which means I am now forced to play with “portals” because my killer has too much mobility.
I also don’t think the issues that you present are that huge to warrant a full on universal system which honestly sounds weird to me and would make every killer feel bland and less unique.
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Whilst increased mobility would be nice, you are ignoring the fact that you cannot account for "fun". People don't even seem to know what they want, every time I see the words "boring killer" thrown around, it tends to be more accurately replaced with the title "frustrating killer", because the only reason a killer becomes boring is because you are so frustrated you stop trying to escape them.
You can't fix that with a portal system. People would just find the next meta thing and abuse that as much as possible, leading to even more cries of "unfair" and the misleading "boring".
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How to fix unviable or boring Killers?
The devs should actually listen more to the community for changes. Or even make the ptb experimental mode where the devs are showing some wacky changes and wants to ask the community if these changes are good. So Basically something overwatchs has.
Gen rushing is hopefully getting fixed when that early game mechanic is in the game.
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Also Prove Thyself got buffed, It now gives you 17% speed for per survivor from 15%
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See I'd agree with you but to this day i can't name a single killer who can achieve consistently good results that isn't highly mobile. Rember also that big maps are becoming more normal. Midwich, ormund, yamoka variants. If the devs want these kinda maps they need to address the glaring mobility necessity every killer must have.
If you can't see these issues as a neccessary try and only play these low mobility killers and swear off the faster variants. Then try out the faster variants and see the difference. I do my best to play a variety of killers and nothing is more demoralising then playing a slow killer and seeing the first gen pop before i can even cross the map.
Hooking survivours is the norm for every killer, the basement option always exisits yet these options in no way takes away from a killers uniqueness. Besides the beauty of this system is it has so many ways to be balanced and tweaked. A portal glowing to alert survivours. Cooldown periods for portals potentially turning off once a single gen is left.
The power of the fast travel can be improved or weakened as changes for killers who have powerful chase potential is being implemented.
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Im not here to argue whether or not the idea is good. But you misundestand one point. The boring aspect of his post, was from the survivors view point. Its the survivors that are calling killers boring to go against. Killers like spirit, Deathslinger, and others like them that leaves survivors with little counterplay in a chase.
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Quite the opposite, PT was slightly buffed when the efficiency malus for multiple survs working on a gen was increased (from 10% to 15%, if i'm correct), so that with two surviros you come out roughly at 100% (more like 99%). So when one surv needs 80 seconds for a gen, two survs with PT need a little more than 40 seconds.
Edit: If FT would seriously no longer have this effect, which effect would be left then? Just the increases BP?
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PT was nerfed bc the efficiency rebuff got higher. PT was indirectly nerfed.
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Then what would be half the point of playing demo then?
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I love when people say there's no counterplay to certain killers. Every killer has counterplay, this is just a fact. If you don't see the counterplay it's your own lack of skill not others. The problem is survivors think they should be able to 1v1 all killers easily. The killer should obviously be able to win in a chase unless the player is just bad.
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I agree, the meta on which gens survivors would need to complete to avoid a 3-gen would definitely change. I think an easy solution for that is for the portals to have a lengthy cooldown that increases for every generator that is complete. Less gens to protect means less of a need for the killer to teleport across the map. I don't think Demo would become useless, but players who use him could afford to put his portals in more interesting locations for surprise angles instead of just placing them at gens. Again, I know it sounds like an OP suggestion, but I believe there are ways to implement it that would make it balanced.
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That's a very fair point. I'm not claiming my suggestion is without its flaws. My initial response is that those killers with strong movement abilities wouldn't have access to the portals or would not be able to use them as often. However, I can understand that would be kind of discriminatory in a way that would leave a bad taste in players' mouths. I can see how it would make this suggestion appear to just be a band-aid fix, but I still believe there is potential for it to work. Without a simple solution that benefits everyone across the board, we're in for many more years of killer reworks to compensate for a game that is constantly changing. Perhaps the "start-game collapse" that has been talked about will be an effective solution that successfully addresses a lot of current issues.
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My thought is it's more beneficial to have a solution that can tackle many problems at once instead of buffing and nerfing killers constanty, which is much more time-consuming. I agree the issues I am trying to address with these suggestions may not be great enough to warrant it. For example, although "gen-rush" absolutely still exists, it's nowhere near as prevalent as it used to be. The killers that I've seen people complain about being "boring" are mainly Freddy, Spirit, Deathslinger, and Pyramid Head, so maybe a change like this isn't necessary for just four problem killers. However, if their chase potential is nerfed because of them being too OP and unfun for survivors, then their viability goes way down (at least for the latter two, respectively) and we're back to square one. Not being strong in chase and/or no movement-based ability to apply pressure easier = bad killer.
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The point of the increased mobility is so the "fun" factor can be addressed more easily. With increased mobility, killers don't have to be oppressive in chase to make up for it and have a fair chance of winning. If killer powers are no longer oppressive, they become less frustrating because both players feel like they have an equal chance to outplay one another.
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The portals would ideally only be in certain, fixed locations and could not be used all the time. Demo can place portals almost anywhere it wants and has a much shorter cooldown when using them. Plus, the undetectable and killer instinct effects from demo's portals which the proposed portals would not provide.
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But you are potentially decreasing 4 people's fun. That's the problem: high-mobility killers are consistently ranked as some of the least fun killers to play against. I wonder why that is...
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I want to know what drugs you're doing.
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Wait people value demos portals? When I think of demo i think of mister yeet lunging at me from across the map. Demo would have more control over his fast travel network as opposed to the portal system which would have fixed positions.
No one looks at LF or Billy and think fast break pallets mid saw is a unique selling point. If anything it gives demo more oppurtunities to be a map wide menance.
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A few issues with portals.
1. Poor placement, it would be super easy to have the portals spawn in weird ass locations that do nothing.
2. Any kind of notification for use. Unless the survivors literally cant see the portals, they will just stealth mode everytime the killer uses them.
3. This does 0 to fix the killer fun issue where their powers have been changed constantly so they are unfun for a lot of people.
3.5 you did mention we could further nerf killers to be worse in chases if we did this, it would be gutting the fun for killers
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I never said a survivor should always be able to escape a chase if they can outplay the killer though. But if a killer has very little counterplay, beyond semi niche perks, then they are not fun to go against. I personally care little for how fun a killer is to play against since I usually only play killer. But its still a fairly valid argument from a survivors view point.
Yes a killer should always win the chase. But, a survivor should be able to extend the chase with outplays, and some killers do this much better than others. Thats the problem.
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I understand the fact that some killers are better than others. I take the issue with the statement "no counterplay" though. I specifically referred to that. I take issue with this because there is counterplay to literally every killer. Spirit? Her hair stands up when she phases, so if she's phasing stop running and hide somewhere if you're not injured. And don't make any loud noises (rushed vaults) deathslinger? Just crouch. When you think he's going to shoot, crouch. Most of the time the shot will just go right about your head. There are other things like moving unpredictably and breaking LoS. The fact is, if a survivor is good enough at breaking LoS, then making their scratch marks go one way, then walking to a hiding spot, you can outwit just about any killer. You don't need killer specific counter play to counter a killer. All killers can be inherently countered by mind games.
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And suddenly bubba becomes one of the most op piece of ######### killers because the one thing he lacked (mobility) is made up for.
The game isn't made to have teleporters. It would break too many things. Think about it this way, imagine a spirit had surveillance (I run that on spirit with ruin) and she sees a gen near a teleporter have a yellow aura. She can use her special near a teleporter, go through while phasing, having come literally from the other side of the map being invisible the whole time then grabbing a survivor off a gen. A portal would only hurt any counterplay many killers already have
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