Unbreakable needs a requirement/penalty like Deliverance
Unbreakable is quite a powerful perk in the game & can literally be the sole reason the outcome of a match changes. It is the perfect counter to slugging, which has become a common tactic for killers as it is a means of buying time for themselves (due to gen speeds). Unbreakable is quite nasty when combined with perks such as Decisive Strike, Flip Flop, Soul Guard, & Tenacity. It's arguably the best second chance perk, & is quite common in the meta. It even grants the survivor a speed boost in recovery while in the dying state that never goes away. There is zero downside to running this perk, but it technically can never be used if the killer does not slug. But that's why it is often paired with DS, as the killer either has to take the DS stun after unhooking the survivor or let them heal themselves off the ground.
Now a perk that is quite similar to this would be Deliverance, as it allows you to do something on your own without having to rely on a teammate to save you. But Deliverance is significantly less powerful than Unbreakable, while still being a strong perk. Why is that? Well first off, it has a requirement of making one safe rescue before being hooked. So if a survivor who has this perk is downed & hooked before they can make a safe save, the perk never activates. Secondly, the perk has a downside of making the survivor broken for a period of time after unhooking themselves. I would argue that this perk is very balanced, as there is a nice give & take to running the perk. Unbreakable on the other hand is not, as there is no take.
My solution: give Unbreakable a requirement and/or penalty. For a requirement, it could be something as simple as taking a protection hit for a survivor or making a safe unhook, or even completing the equivalent of 1 gen. Something that is able to be done in most cases, but still requires something of the survivor. As for penalty, it could also be the broken status effect for a brief moment, but I feel there can be more creativity behind this. Maybe the survivor suffers from the Oblivious status effect for a short duration or their aura gets revealed to the killer for a few seconds. Something to at least make it have some sort of downside for just how powerful the perk can be.
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No it doesn't
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It has one already. You can only use it once, and then you have a perk slot that isn't being used.
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I think Unbreakable is mostly in a good spot.
The only change I would really like to see for it would be tying its increased recovery speed to the perk's "active" status. As in, if Unbreakable was used to self-recover out of the dying state (thus deactivating the perk for the rest of the trial), then the increased recovery speed would also deactivate from that point onward.
Because the recovery speed is a constant passive effect, Unbreakable is actually more than a one-use perk. Much like how Balanced Landing formerly stood above most other exhaustion perks for its own passive effect. Toning it back like this might open up some room for other slug-assist perks to be improved as more viable alternatives (ideally improving build variety).
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It is a really strong perk that rewards you just for having it and doesn't require any change in play to gain its effect.
My thoughts was combine this with the changes to were gonna live forever and make it so 4 stacks lets you recover from the dying state once and decreased bp at level 1 and 2 but let it get 4 stacks and make unbreakable have a really fast recovery like 70/80/90% faster and can recover to 99%
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i'm surprised that you have brought up unbreakable and not no mither? no mither you can get yourself up as many times as you want during 1 game so long as you are slugged.
personally, i don't think there is anything wrong with unbreakable. you can only use it once in a game. you mention that its nasty with ds, well don't go after the person that just got off hook then you can pick up the person you downed and not have to worry about getting hit with ds. if you still want to slug the person that just got off hook then at least you are still keeping them off gens. its still slowing the game down, they still have to recover before they can get up.
if you are leaving someone slugged long enough for them to be able to get up themselves then it's likely that someone else would have come to get them up anyway. someone else who is also able to heal you faster than you could heal yourself if you are in the dying state.
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Well the head bone already has to connected to the butt bone but if want them disconnected then that’s cool too.
I don’t like the perk but it does what it’s supposed to do and it’s a one time thing they may or may not get used. It has changed a lot of games for me as killer but I suck so blame it on the rain.
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The recovery speed still persists though. & technically you could 99% yourself on the ground for a save if you realize you don't need to use your Unbreakable yet. What makes this perk even worse is when multiple survivors run it in the same trial. Cause typically these are also the teams that pair it with DS with is a crazy broken combo that leaves the killer with no options to properly counter. & even then that's not a legit detriment. Deliverance has a one time use as well. But it also is a bit balanced out by giving the survivor broken status so that the risk matches the reward. There is zero risk to Unbreakable.
No mither makes the survivor permanently broken though. That is enough of a downside for the perk to make the risk outweigh the reward. Unbreakable is godlike when compared to No Mither.
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Care to explain why? Bc just saying no it doesn't is not a valid response.
It has changed the outcome of so many games where the survivors played badly, but they had crutch perks to give themselves many more chances than they really deserved. It has rewarded bad gameplay so many times in my experience, & I see it do the same all the time for content creators I watch. At least with Deliverance, it requires that the survivor actually does something successfully before it can be activated.
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Bruh this perk already is super situational don't make it have a downside too.
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It isn't situational anymore. Ever since ruin was nerfed, slugging is almost essential to winning games.
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Every perk that let survivors do something they normally can't do without teammates should have a huge downside and/or a requirement. Just like self care doubles the healing time or deliverance needs an unhook and gives the broken status effect.
Unbreakable and DS are exceptions for no reason, that's why both perks are obviously overpowered, especially combined with each other.
Perks like BT and DH are problematic too, but for other reasons.
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"There is zero downside to running this perk, but it technically can never be used if the killer does not slug."
You quite literally pointed out the downside of this perk while saying it has no downside. Unbreakable is a one time use, and if its wasted early game, then it's no longer worth anything. Faster recovery speed doesn't mean much if your teammates favor other things over altruism. On top of that, literally like you said, it's a waste if the killer doesn't slug. Unbreakable is strong, but I wouldn't agree that it's the "best" second chance perk on the market. The perk is incredibly situational, and you can't say unbreakable needs a downside when it's ONE TIME USE, and the killer can slug as many times as they want with no penalty. Make it make sense. Please.
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On one hand we need ds. Its one of the only perks that punishes tunneling a survivour. However its power with unbreakble creates a lot of unwinnable situations for killers.
If I slug then they get up and continue doing the gen at 80% close by, if I pick them up I get dsed lose time and the chase has been extended. Theres no right answer and these situations are very common with many survivours forcinfmg these situations.
I'd say even if we need ds it has more potential to break the game further with potential future perks. Most unbreakable synergies minus ds are more so cute then overpowered.
A fix I would recomend could be that you cant recover while ds is active otherwise ds will deactivate on that instance. This wouldn't be the first time we would see design choices made to hinder a potetnially op combo.
Legion with nurses dosent affect mending as it would be too strong. Second wind dosent work with deliverance as it would render the disadvantage of deliverance broken status as mute.
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It requires the killer to leave you on the ground. That in itself is already a HUGE requirement.
That and it is once per game.
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Good luck making a use for unbreakable when there no obsession.
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It would be funny if using unbreakable made you broken.
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The only restriction Unbreakable needs is being unable to be run with DS.
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maybe it should just have the same requirement as Deliverance, unhook someone, then you can pick yourself up
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It has multiple uses, it is also used to recover faster in the match as well without picking yourself up.
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This is a perk I see many people with and a perk I hardly ever see people get to use. If you go on a mass slugging spree, you face the risk of having a survivor standing up. Slugging shouldn’t equal the perfect way to win a game. I don’t see why something that can already be prevented needs a negative side-effect?
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Same as deliverence but it has a use after you pick yourself up (you recover faster)
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I can understand where OP is coming from and it is a very strong perk i see it used alot in red rank would say 2nd most used perk 1st is DS in red ranks.
If there was going to be a condtion like deliverence has i would say you suffer the hindernce effect for 30-45 seconds once you pick yourself up.
Also to anyone that is going to say or had said that UB is fine cause you can use it only once delievernce can only be used once aswell and has a penalty for using it so why cant UB have one aswell?
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No. Unbreakable is good as it is.
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Unbreakable is balance and only really seems "OP" when paired with DS. But even then, it's not such a problematic perk.
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I am suprised many dont even realize this tbh. One of the main benefits Unbreakable provides a 3-4 man SWF is they all have unbreakable and recover much faster which is how they pick each othr up fast when the clown fiesta begins. I think most people dont even realize this. They associate Unbreakable with picking you up and forget about what its used for the most.
Faster recovery. Multiple times.
Technically Unbreakable is a faster self heal while downed.
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I would just put on an indicator that the survivor has it, simple as that. No mither also has that (broken status). Why hide it?
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Unbreakable already have a penalty then, you have to bring DS to ever use it.
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On it's own, yes. You have to have a killer stupid enough or blind to leave you alone. I will say that when combined aggressively with DS, then it isn't that hard.
Sometimes it's good to look at things in isolation.
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I personally think you're correct. Right now there are a small selection of perks with very powerful, momentum swinging abilities that are far too easy to proc to gain their effect. It completely overshadows the sea of less swing-y perks and narrows build diversity. There needs to be nerfs on these strong perks and buffs on the bad perks.
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no
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Because each thing that helps you get off the ground has a condition itself
Soul guard to unlock the effect you have to have been cursed by a hex if the killer doesn't have a hex Totem, the Hex totem gets cleansed or you weren't affected by it by the time you get down and you won't be able to use it for this reason there's no need to have an indicator or another condition.
No mither give you the ability to constantly and repeatedly get up off the ground however in return in not only makes you injured but give the killer a notification this way the killer to the make the choice in whether slugging you is appropriate or not. No one's going to waste a time to go over and pick up someone with no mither
Unbreakable the condition of this perk is that it only has a one-time use both of the perks above can be used endlessly with this perk you get one use if you waste it it's gone
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For as situational as it is, no it doesn’t.
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Why?
It takes a long time to use.
You can only use it once.
If you don’t like unbreakable then don’t slug. Hook any survivors you down, or make sure you don’t wander off too far.
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It's already too situational.
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Yes, yes it is a huge requirement for Deliverance. If you're hooked before you can unhook someone, your perk is wasted.
What's huge about these requirements is indeed the singular fact that you are relying on other people to activate your perk. I say the same thing about DS, but that one is easier to bait.
We may as well just agree to disagree because we both appear to have widely differing viewpoints. I think that relying on the actions on others is a major gamble and a huge requirement, and you clearly don't.
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so situational that the entirety of ranks 1-4 run it
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you have to be slugged which doesn't happen every match. It only work once. It's already very situational and only good paired with ds so you can guarantee its use. That's still an investement of 2 perk for a one time effect.
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The game isn’t all about red ranks. Slugging might happen quite often in red ranks, but not as often in other ranks, making the perk situational in general. Having that in mind, u can’t compare deliverance and unbreakable, there’s a huge difference between both of them. Every match u will, probably, be hooked atleast once, which always gives u the chance to use ur deliverance (if u unhooked someone first that is), and with unbreakable, as I said before it doesn’t happen every match, so sometime u bring it for nothing, which is a downside (and u can also only use it once so... yh)
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A solo survivor with Unbreakable is ok, as he's either using it or just getting the 35% faster recovery to a random pick him up. A team with 4 unbreakables (usually will have DS too) can turn the game so badly that it isn't even close to fair.
Slugging IS the most optimal thing to do besides tunneling, and guess what, killers can't even do that because unbreakable AND soulguard (god forbid you use a hex and someone has soulguard, it'll be unbreakables and BT forever in your game, especially if it is ruin and the survivors just don't cleanse it 'cause, you know, ruin is so weak that you need constant pressure on all 7 gens to get a value out of it).
Yeah, unbreakable should have a requirement or a downside to its use.
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Unbreakable needs 0 changes. It is perfectly fine and fair as is. The vast majority of games you use this perk it will do nothing. I would go so far as to say 9 out of 10 games it is a dead perk. That is the downside right there.
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the perk is fine as it is slugging is insanely powerfull and time saving, is a good and balanced perk and is very situational aswell, also tehre are only certain moments when actually it changes teh entire game most cases at most it will save you or prolongue the agony a little bit more...
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Why should unbreakable need an requirement tho? It a 1 time situational perk that only work against sluggers. Even that you need to complete the full recovery bar just to get back up.
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"Unbreakable is quite a powerful perk in the game & can literally be the sole reason the outcome of a match changes"
Being a strong perk that can influence games doesn't mean it needs a nerf.
Mot perks in the right situation can do that, unbreakable's Use is just more often a situation to come across.
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I'm tired of this argument. It sounds good on paper and maybe to non-experienced players, but don't lie to us, we all know that the "it's fine because it can only be used once" is hardly an excuse. Many of the most powerful perks in the game for survivors are "one time use": Unbreakable, Adrenaline, Decisive Strike, all examples of extremely powerful one time use perks.
It's also hardly a "one time use" if everyone is running it, at that point call it 4x use like it really is, and all of a sudden the problems and the cracks become much more apparent as they begin to reveal themselves. Even with the added negative penalty I have no doubt Unbreakable would still be a great perk that could fit into nearly any loadout.
Personally though, I don't have beef with Adrenaline or Unbreakable. I think these perks are fine on their own and truly you don't always get a chance to use them, I wouldn't be opposed to it receiving a negative penalty but I won't be expecting one either. The only real problem is when Unbreakable is used in conjunction with DS, but that is far more reflective of how unbalanced DS is rather than unbreakable. So in truth I'm not super invested in whether or not Unbreakable should be changed in this way, unlike DS which definitely needs a rework to prevent it from being used so aggressively.
I will say though that I think a decent idea would be to make it so that whenever you pick yourself up your aura is revealed to the killer for 6/5/4 seconds. I think this kind of a lighter negative effect would be something most people could agree on and in a match is something that could go either way.
If the killer is chasing someone else or is focused on applying pressure, it could be pretty easy to miss the aura reveal if he's not paying attention and it'll be like nothing happened for whoever is using the perk. However, if the killer is actively looking for you, and you pick yourself up in a dead zone or something with no pallets or windows to protect you that could spell a death sentence for you as you reveal your location for that short time. It introduces a bit more strategy when it comes to the perk which I think makes it more interesting and forces survivors to be more meticulous about when they choose to pick themselves up. At the same time also providing a tiny bit of counterplay for the killer embedded into the perk itself, just enough that he has the information to do something about it and make a choice to go after the person who just picked themselves up or not.
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