How to SWF Genrush With Math
Designate a guy who can chase well. Even better if you can all run a little bit.
Ideal scenario:
Split the other 3 on different gens. 3 gens done in 80 seconds.
Then 2 on one gen, one on another. 2nd gen pops in 44 seconds.
Other 2 join the last guy on their gen, and it will be done 23 seconds later (44% complete by 4th gen pop. 56% remaining / (.8 speed*3 survivors) = 23 seconds.
This adds up to 147 seconds. Of course you can't teleport so you have to add in travel time to gens. Two of you have to run to 3 gens total. The last only has to run to two. So... 160 cumulative seconds and the gates are powered. Roughly. Ish.
If your guy can run that long. Good on him. But 160 secs is a tough freaking run. Knowing the other 3 are being optimal, I suggest using all your pallets early, and bring dead hard and maybe a syringe if you are REALLY trying hard. Realistically you want to run for those first 80 seconds. That's more realistic.
Also! Keep in mind that the killer has to clean his weapon twice, pick up, and hook your man. Those animation times add up to 8.5 seconds + travel time to hook. So... Let's say he's a fast boi and gets there in 3 seconds. That's 11.5 guaranteed seconds + getting to one of your gens. Let's just say you happen to be on the nearest gen and we give him 7 seconds to get to you. That's 18.5 seconds of free time + your chasers runtime.
So in reality. If your chaser can evade the killer for the remaining 61.5 seconds. You will be able to 3 gens done before the killer gets to the next person. That's 30.75 seconds per health state. If Dead Hard is used to properly it's 20.5 seconds per health state. Syringe? 15.375 seconds per health state. You are the runner. This is your job for the whole match. Do your best. Build for it.
Of course others can throw on a toolbox to help shave off some of those 61.5 seconds if its giving your runner trouble.
At this point you JUST popped 3 gens on. 1 on hook, 1 in chase, 2 free birds who just finished their gens. Let's start there.
One of the free birds gets on the 4th gen, other goes for unhook and they both get on the nearest gen. Don't heal.
This means you have (about) 60 seconds until all gens are popped. (The first guy was busting out his 60 second gen, the other two only have a 44 second gen together, but there was travel time for the hook save so... 60 seconds).
Back to the guy in a chase. You need to last that cumulative 60 seconds. Remember those 18.5 seconds the killer has to spend cleaning weapons, picking you up, hooking you, etc? That means you only have to survive for 41.5 seconds of chase time total. 20.75 per health state. Dead hard? 13.8 seconds per health state. Easy peasy.
Make sure you all have BT and DS so you can guarantee getting out once the gens are on. I'd recommend adrenaline unless you are facing lots of NOED. This way your second guy might not even go down!
5 gens, 2 hooks, and all the second chances you could need. Enjoy.
Comments
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Love it when someone posts facts with absolute numbers. None of that Im right cause Im rank x with x-k hours crap.
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Meanwhile in soloQ : -Claudette : "Initiate cloak mode !"
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Yes and you'll get about 10,000 BP maybe because you didn't do anything besides gens and ran away as fast as humanly possible
I guess if that's all you want, more power to you. This just seems to be a really boring way to spend your time playing this game and you don't even get a ton of points for the effort.
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OMG the math just made my head explode. Good theory though and I can confirm the numbers.
Record those games and post them. Let's see if the theory and numbers can be matched with reality. No comms though. No cheating. tsk tsk.
OMG you made me spit out my tea. 🤣
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Well this is not an actual strategy, no experienced killer in their right mind would chase a survivor for that long without pressuring the gens. Healing, unhooking and especially running around is what survivors end up doing most of the match instead of the generators. Props to you for putting that effort in the math though, that's basically the worst case scenario for a killer.
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This!
Btw... uhhh guys, this post is from march 19 lol
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQomQu_e-KI&t=0m55s
About 30 seconds and no down.
Tru3 is not experienced enough for you? How about Scottjund?
Depip Squad already showed that if you just piss out gens and split up you'll win so this isn't new.
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Okay first of all learn to stay in topic. Early game for killers is already a whole different problem, him taking 30 seconds to find a survivors has nothing to do with my comment of "no experienced killer would chase a survivor for that long". If you want the proof keep watching that video after the first 30 seconds. He finds a survivor, gets a hit but is unable to down him for the next minute or so. So he doesn't keep chasing him like a zombie and goes straight for the gen that's being worked on and pressures it. That decision making is what I called being experienced, not getting downs left and right with every killer in any map. Your point has nothing to do with my previous comment.
Also sorry but I don't wanna spend time watching the second clip, I'm not that invested in this argument, just typing this mainly for other people to understand my point.
Well he put all that effort in to this post, this way more people sees it. But yeah, didn't even realize that myself until you said it.
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Imagine thinking you are forced to chase someone for 3 gens.
#choices.
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It is mathematically impossible for killer to win let alone get a kill if survivors are even somewhat efficient.
At rank 1, the balance is something like 90% - 10% in favor of survivors.
Even Vegas would throw those odds out on account of being too cheeky.
Sources:
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I stayed ontopic, you claimed no killer would chase for this long, I showed you killers who will chase for 30+ seconds because against any decent survivor it will at least take 30 seconds per hit.
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Old but very interesting post.
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Op after they got genrushed by a SWF
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This.
But...it still happens.
Was in a solo game the other night where Oni brought ebony mori. Tunnels Ace from the start. Hooks him once and tunnels him for the rest of the game to get that mori. I only did 1 gen. Other two survivors working elsewhere (I never saw them). Kept seeing Ace run the killer into my area, so I kept trying to help him. I must have taken at least 3 hits and multiple body-blocks for Ace (I was running self-care/botany for a challenge), but the killer was never interested in switching targets. Killer DC's when the last gen pops and tells us to all kill ourselves.
A lot of killers play poorly and blame it on swf genrushing.
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Because they want to clump every problem into "SWF" or "Genrush", but never do they want to actually admit that there is such thing as over committing to a survivor during a chase, or that they lack basic knowledge of how to run certain strong loops, or that they don't bother to go kick a gen once in a while or patrol them. They want the gens to simply protect themselves or take extra long so that it will buy time to correct their mistakes.
Simply put, it is much easier to complain than it is to learn and maybe deal with the match accordingly.
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You do realise there are so many other variables and it's not just "oh survivors work on gens, this is so unfair"? There are different killer powers that are meant to help you control survivors. For example Legion can injure all 4 easily, stealth killers can apply a hit&hide strategy and there are a ton of other powers and slowdown perks. Also if you decide to chase good survivors around good loops and lose 3 gens because of that, it's all entirely on you. You should just know when to quit chasing. Of course SWF can be compeletly busted but it's like only the top 0,1% of players that do what you described.
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"no experienced killer in their right mind would chase a survivor for that long "
It's very easy to let ego get in the way of tactics, especially after you've invested so much time into a single target. What I ran into several months ago were SWFs running OPs perklist of ADR, BT, and DS but with one guy on Object of Obsession. I had to bring that guy down first because everyone else kept getting away and predicting me move for move. I ended up smacking a few around because they would bodyblock right before I could bring one down but they didn't even heal. I could end up,if I was lucky, knocking down the OoO user as gates were opening a few times but ADR kicked in. For their whole team. Even if I hook his buddies can just run up and grab him. They can body block. He has DS. He has ADR too if he was on the hook right before last gen popped too, so he'll come off hook at full health.
Filthy.
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Tru3 still ends up with a 3K on Huntress on Haddonfield which is a terrible map & killer combo, and Scott was intentionally running a meme build which means it would have taken him less than 20 seconds had his chainsaw not had the addon on it which removes the insta down ability of it lmfao.
Not the best examples.
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Yeah if you rush the gens and do just that. Odds are one of two things will happen. You will depip or get a safely pip. Due to lack of being chased by the killer. Along with only a handful of points.
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Because the survivors are derping around. Because Holding m1 is neither the main objective nor is it fun, as a survivor I either go for challenges or for BP
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So what does your post prove? Tru3 played incredibly poorly at the start of that match, and still 3Kd, Scott Intentionally handicapped himself and still 4Kd, so I guess killers can still be bad/handicapped and 3/4K it's just that easy man.
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Gen rushing doesn't exist in all honesty, unless you have an obvious totem there is no reason for survivors to do anything else, and it's already significantly easier than it ever has been to 4K, any mandatory increase of time the survivors have to spend in game is a flat buff to every killer, including the top tier ones which just means they'll need to be nerfed in order to not be opressive.
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To begin with: you started with "ideal scenario". This is almost never the case.
- You almost never start splitted, rather than in teams, so having 3 survivors on gens at the start of the game is not really a thing unless the killer brings the shroud offering.
- That the "runner" is found first is also pretty random, unless he makes noise, which is a pretty clear signal for the killer to ignore this survivor as he is most likely not working on gens for a decent amount of time, wasting time to get attention.
- The runner is not allowed to get near gens that are worked on, restricting the amount of paths and pallets he can use.
- Beneath that, the killer could run stuff like Discordance or Tinkerer that gives him a notification, or after a decent amount of chase without a hit he could simply DECIDE to stop the chase.
If all of that fails, and the killer decides to commit to a chase for 80 seconds and all survivors are equally spread and know where to go, find all the gens on the shortes path and everything, yeah... maybe 1 of 100 games that 5 gens are done within 3 minutes
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I wasn't proving anything, the topic was chasetime not general gamebalance which is known for being tilted towards survivors if they dont play for fun as was basically confirmed by McLean.
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But this game is far from as simple as this post makes it out to be, this post basically implies the killer is bad and can't shut down chases fast, which if you're looking at it from that angle, you can also look at it from the angle that all the survivors in the match are just bad all chases are 10 seconds long and therefore the game is killer sided because the survivors played poorly.
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Except the killers were some of the best this community has to offer (not that it would've made a difference in those..."chases") and the chases still took what people here call optimal chasetime while the survivors just went down like a sack of potatoes using no jungle-gyms only 1 pallet and in kate's case not even running for max distance who instead tried pointless mindgames. If I want to win as a surv I'll just tell my team to predrop pallets and sit on gens but again, nobody plays like this in the first place because this is not a competitive game where you just go for the "win"
Again mostly talking about the ludicrous "maximum chasetime" that people are talking about here that are just not realistic against ANY survivor who is an actual gamer instead of a soccermom trying to relax and get scared in DBD.
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Again, Tru3 played VERY badly at the start of his match, he made a lot of mistakes trying to get hatchet throws, and Scott intentionally handicapped himself with a killer not many people think is viable, these matches would have been over way quicker had neither of them done what they did, and even with all that they ended up getting above average kills.
Too many people are attached to gens being done, it really doesn't matter, how many times have you 3/4K'd with 1/2 gens left? probably a lot right, so why did those 2/3 gens being done matter so much? They didn't, at all, survivors can't really do anything unless all the gens are done so I don't get why there is this big thing around preventing survivors getting any gens done at all.
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What is the point of your argument here after depip squad proved that all it takes for survivors to escape the trial is a team of people who will not play for fun but hold m1 and not play altruistic. It's pointless to discuss this because nobody plays like this, 99% of people play for bloodpoints and you don't actually win by escaping.
The only point I was making is that you will always at least chase a survivor for 20 seconds on a non-stealthkiller unless he's a complete potato basically running into you.
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The game is very different to what it was 2/3 years ago, the game is not the same, and depipping/ pipping is so incredibly irrelevant, why is a measure of the games balance based on whether you got enough points in red rank to keep your rank or depip, explain what the logic of this is?
You definitely shouldn't be pipping at Red Ranks that often anyway, the higher rank you are, the harder it is to rank up, if you're already rank 1 you shouldn't pipping ever really because you're playing against people who have also played enough that month to hit rank one, depipping someone does not prove the game has a balance issue, especially not with all the changes that have happened since that "experiement".
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The experiment was done again, not much has changed if you play like them, again which nobody really does.
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they are way too altruistic thats how. try to get someone to bassement and be smart enough to play around it dont camp it so massively proxy camp it be smart, and get 2 there,, if u play hag i suggest agitation to brign someone to bassement and well trap the hell out of bassement and enjoy.
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link?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOT7aLJ3cYw
This time with perks tho. And yeah the huntress was terribad. He later did a solo survivor test where he escaped what, 70% of the time?
Killergameplay right now revolves around 3gens and catching survivors before they even get to a loop. Comitting to a chase is basically admitting defeat.
Found the sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qsLHWKqxw1jZB2Mrrffrb_IuuNXqHwhyEwQGbJPPAAk/edit#gid=0
A 70% escape rate solo on a fresh account is really high, especially considering how many survivors will just outright kill themselves or DC when they dont like a killer/map, 8% in his case. On purpleranks I had a 20% DC/Suicide rate when I played with a friend who was new to DBD due to ppl not wanting to deal with somebody who goes down in less than 30 seconds.
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That video is a year old... and he went against a rank 12 huntress ??? Hardly anything to go by lmfao
The last 100 gamees experiment was done in 2018.
After the game you posted (bottom right) there are no following "depip squad" games.
An Edit to your edit:
a 70% escape rate is not high, condering from rank 20 to rank 10 is going to be against insanely new players.
Did you even check the stats? lmfao
oh and not to mention these terrible terrible first gen times
Those are the red rank 1st gen times btw :)
and for the record a solo escape means nothing when it could mean that his entire team died it means nothing.
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Yes as there's no point, the experiment would be the same if they decided to use perks to accomodate for the changes. Now with ruin having been reworked they'd probably even have an easier time now.
Palletvacuum is gone but we have way more pallets now often within reach with sometimes ridiculous safe setups where 2 pallets are right next to each other and temporarily even spawned doublepallets within jungle-gyms.
They never used instaheals etc in the first place.
Infinites are gone but were never needed in the first place for the experiment with gens being done in up to 5 minutes there were always enough ressources on the map.
The original experiment was done with no perks which was unrealistic in the first place, scottjund managed to even kill 2 perkless itemless survivors, the changes to survivors done over time would never make up for not having perks.
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Lmao way more pallets? Jeeze, I'm gunna end this conversation now because first you're telling me they redid the depip swaud but with perks, but it was one game you posted against a rank 12, then you show me some solo stats where marth got rinsed into oblivion and the killers pipped /safety pipped 80 out of 81 games, now you're telling me there are way more pallets and that they'll use perks to compensate for the nerfs, lmao, you're iving in 2018 dbd bud it's time to practise getting your killer on.
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Why would a soloescape mean nothing, playing altruistic gets you killed in the first place . Sure the game isn't played that way but we're talking about theory here, not actual gameplay.
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Maybe you should play killer against them if you're so confident that you could beat them. Oh, they're not bothering anymore because again, the devs are fully aware of the balancing this game because doing anything else would kill DBD in less than a month.
Any decent killer knows that unless you play nurse or spirit, the game is in the survivor's hands, it's simple math calculated by the devs so the game amounts most of the time to a 2k unless survivors get downed next to each other.
"What's the issue, play Nurse then".
No, I am not willing to learn a killer that requires so much muscle-memory in a game that doesn't reward my time investment in the first place. I could stick to freddy on whom I have a well over 90% killrate but playing only 1 char gets boring really fast.
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Clearly a toxic survivor main and or a troll that has no idea what he's talking about. You are violating the sanctity of moral grounds regarding truth for balance's sake. Have you no honor or dignity?
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5K hours with all maxed killers but yea sure I'm a survivor main, sorry I don't subscribe to the "killer is weally weally hawrd"
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Nah, the game is super duper easy my dude, has been for a very very long time, bad players are likely to always be bad, especially when they spend all their time on the forums complaining about hypothetical maths equations that assume the player is bad because they can't pressure gens
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It's not, because this game is casual as heck with not enough rank disparity. Even at rank1 you'll either face potatoes, people trolling the ######### out of each other or ppl doing dumbass challenges or ppl like me who will simply go for the BP grind.
Especially killers will tryhard more regularly because they have nobody to goof around with.
Killer was never hard, it's always been the same gameplay, heck DBD is not hard in the first place, it's a game made for people who'd usually sit at home and play ######### like walking simulators as can easily be seen with the original gamedesign where it was literally impossible to win against a survivor with a functioning brain to the extent where they released the nurse.
Once you face competent survivors who's sole goal is to escape even if somebody is left behind you'll get a 1k at most.
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"Just pressure gens dummy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DggcHI1boFM
"Wait, why is nobody playing michael myers, clown, piggy or the other lowtier killers outside of challenges."
I have a very high killrate for somebody who only has about 400 hours as killer, on old freddy I had a killrate of 90% (scummy playstyle yes, but no moris) when I still actively played this game beyond a casual game with friends. The difference between you and me is that I understand that a survivor being a derpy potato that gets hit within 10 seconds of me finding him and gets downed within 30 seconds is a potato, not me being some gamer who was able to hold m1 so the auto-aim or "aimdressing" downs the survivor for me that falls to the easiest mindgames.
Luckily genspeeds will be adressed with an "early game collapse" just as broken killers have been adressed. This is a casualgame first and foremost, it was never envisioned with ppl nolifing and optimizing fun out of it.
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I first hit rank 1 in 2017 when the game was actually survivor sided, it's nowhere and not even close to being what it was back then, it's easy mode now, I think the issue is a lot of people see this game and think it's bully simulator where you get to come in as killer and murder a bunch of people easy, but it's not like that nor should it ever be, and then they get mad when they can't, sure I agree, if you're going into a game with the mindset you just wanna escape it's super easy to, you avoid killers as much as you want and ignore saves, but as a killer, if i want to come in and ruin someones game i catch them, hook them and face camp them, both sides have their "this isn't fun at all" sides.
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He ended with a 3K what's your point?
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Against people who didn't play optimally with a killer who's lightyears above most other killers. Again, what about people like me who refuse to learn the more intricate killers, am I stuck with Freddy and the probably soon to be nerfed Pyramid Head?
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The game is still survivor sided and that's coming from people who have a well over 80% winrate on their killers because unlike you they realize that they win because the other side screws up, not because they are somehow able to beat a system that is tilted towards a very lenient 2k.
You'll be hard pressed to find anybody say that most of the killer roster is in the power role, none of the big streamers who have ridiculous hours in this game would agree with you as it's simple math and gamedesign.
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Yes, you said it yourself, you refuse to learn them, that's like me complaining about dying when I refuse to learn how to loop, every killer has a different ability and you should ideally learn them all, I can't play often as killer because my lobbies are like 15 minutes atm but I 3/4K with killers I hate, I'm literally dreading this next tome because I don't like or play hag, but I played her at rank one yesterday and managed a 4K, they weren't the best survivors but with every killer going "all survivors at rank one are boosted" how are y'all apparently losing so much? You're either going against world class players and getting beat or you're going against boosted survivors and should be winning a lot more.
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You're strawmanning, killers who complain about the game being survivorsided are not losing much, Scottjund has a 32 kills speedlimiter bubba killstreak and an unbeaten oni-killstreak yet still he is objective enough to be able to tell that he'd lose to optimal survivors and proposed several changes which would be hard nerfs for survivors (the devs probably have the early game collapse idea from him that they're working on right now)
I refuse to learn mechanically hard killers in a game that I barely play 2 hours per week nowadays, that doesn't mean that I lose, it just means that if I want to win I'll stick to Pyramid Head or Freddy, especially on freddy I have no recollection on when I've lost (0k/depip) after his rework with most of the time then gens not even being done.
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Luckily we are all humans and not robots.
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