"Toxicity": DbD versus other competitive games
"Toxicity"
I've seen it often on this forum and the Steam discussions page: People love to use the word "toxicity" when speaking of various behaviors on Dead by Daylight. These behaviors range from a Survivors spamming the crouch button to Killers hitting Survivors on the hook, even going so far as to label certain things as "toxic" that are part of normal gameplay, e.g. hook sabotaging, "gen-rushing", camping, tunneling, e.t.c..
Now, I am not saying that some of these behaviors aren't ill-mannered or uncalled for. Specifically crouch-spamming, obnoxious flashlight-clicking, facecamping, hard-tunneling, slugging for no reason whatsoever, repeatedly triggering loud noise notifications, e.t.c.. However, compared to other competitive games that I have played throughout the years, "toxic" is far too strong of a word to apply to these behaviors.
I've seen many people say that, "Dead by Daylight has a super-toxic community because the in-game mechanics enable extreme toxicity.". The reason that people state this is due to the fact that they feel "targeted" by the opposite side, whether it be for their name, what perks they're using, or their character, or even what their character is wearing. And honestly, it is easy to feel this way, but it is unreasonable to assume that the other side has a vendetta against you every time they exhibit one or more of these behaviors.
I have had many experiences with all of the "toxic" behaviors on both sides, and while some of these instances (mostly on Survivor side) WERE a case of being purposefully targeted with the intent to "ruin" my gameplay, I would say that these instances only make up about 5% of my total gameplay (counting the time that I spent in Tan and Green rank). And yes, these experiences do suck, but compared to negative experiences in other games, they don't even come close to how negatively a "toxic" player or behavior can affect you in other competitive games.
True Toxicity in Competitive Gaming
League of Legends
While I no longer play the game (and haven't played it for about 2 years, and will never play it again), League of Legends was a game that I played avidly for about 3, then on-and-off for a couple years after that. And you have never known true "toxicity" unless you've played League.
"Toxicity" in League of Legends can actually ruin your game. Teammates can repeatedly let themselves be killed by the enemy, thus boosting the enemy team and pushing them ahead of your team. Teammates can also become upset and sit AFK in the spawn platform or disconnect. Teammates can use All chat to tell the enemy team where you and your other teammates are. People can be (and usually are) EXTREMELY toxic in the in-game chat, saying horrible things until you mute them, but once they realize you muted them (because you quit responding, or didn't respond in the first place), they will intentionally ruin your game by one or more of the methods stated above.
Not to mention that these things don't just happen in "Normal" (non-ranked) games... they happen often in Ranked games as well. And losing Ranked games on League actually matters... a lot. I won't explain how the ranking works here, but let's just say that whenever you lose, your MMR can tank easily and you start getting matched with people who are much worse than you, and that further contributes to lost games. Losing a game on Dead by Daylight really doesn't mean anything, as the ranking system really doesn't mean anything in the first place.
Another thing I would like to mention is that you would think that "Normal" games are casual, and that they are a great way to practice new champions and builds... however, the amount of "toxicity" that you will receive on Normal games for trying to learn a new character is overwhelming. Players will do the aforementioned behaviors game after game, even on the casual game modes, and it makes for a very unpleasant experience.
Counter Strike: Global Offensive
I've played CS:GO for about 6 years now. Not as much as of late, but I still hop on every now and then. And, again, you have never known true "toxicity" unless you've played CS:GO.
As with League, "toxicity" (in Competitive mode) can actually ruin your game. Teammates can kill you at the start of the round and get kicked, forcing you to play with bots that take their place (these bots are finicky and will sometimes not listen to a "stay here" order, and proceed to run out and get shot). Teammates can also shoot you throughout the game (without getting kicked) and also kill you throughout the game (without getting kicked); they can also knife you in the back "accidentally" (putting you down to about 30 HP), throw molotovs/incendiaries at you and your teammates, use smoke grenades to block your view, and refuse to boost you up onto areas that can only be reached by boost... and the list goes on. They can also scream into their microphone until you mute them, and then grief you anyway.
Ranking is also harder to obtain (and easier to lose) on CS:GO, whereas on Dead by Daylight you only ever lose one pip. I personally have been able to stay rank 1 as a Survivor for many, many months now, and I achieved rank 2 Killer while only playing 1-2 Killer games every couple days. Not bragging at all, just making a point about how much easier the ranking system in DbD is versus other competitive games.
Not to mention that being a female on these games is even worse. I am a normal gamer and do not behave in a cringy manner whatsoever, nor do I have cringy material on my profile, but it is nearly impossible for me to use my microphone on CS:GO without getting flamed, mic-spammed or killed by my own teammates, so I have to resort to using text chat (which is more time-consuming and not conducive to fast-paced gameplay) for less-toxic games. And on League, having a "girly" username (or speaking in a "girly" manner, i.e. using smileys) will also garner toxicity. But on Dead by Daylight, there are so many other females playing the game that it is normal, i.e. they aren't singled out for "toxic" behavior, especially in my experience. Not trying to make this a "females oppressed ree" post, just stating that this has been my experience since I've been a female online gamer.
I would talk about Rainbow Six: Siege, but it's basically the same deal as CS:GO.
Conclusion
In the end, my point that I'm trying to make is that the "toxicity" that players experience in Dead by Daylight is not real toxicity. "Toxicity" is too strong of a word for the behaviors shown in DbD, and I would liken it more to "BM" (bad manners) or just simply being rude. When you're losing a game on Dead by Daylight, you can just let yourself die on the hook and move on to the next game with little penalty. If you're not having a good game as Killer, you can AFK and allow Survivors to open the gates and leave while you watch YouTube or look at your phone. And if you don't want to deal with end-game chat, just leave the end-lobby once you reach it. Nearly every bad behavior in Dead by Daylight can be shrugged off or ignored, but in real competitive games you have to suffer through the game or face a ban.
On a side note, I think it's insane how people actually think it's OK to disconnect on Dead by Daylight... "Why should I have to stick around for a game that isn't going my way?". These people truly must have never played an actual competitive game.
But anyway, that's the end of my post. I got the idea for it after seeing someone on the Steam discussions say that Dead by Daylight's community wasn't toxic, and I realized that it's true! If anything, the only "toxic" behaviors in this game are D/Cs and early hook suicides. If you read all of this, thanks for reading and I hope it brings understanding as to the difference between real toxicity and DbD's "toxicity"!
TL:DR
Dead by Daylight's "toxicity" is not real toxicity, and is merely bad behavior. While Dead by Daylight is a competitive game, it is far more casual than other competitive games and losses don't matter nearly as much. Teammates on other competitive games like CS:GO, League of Legends and Rainbow Six: Siege are able to ruin your games far worse than DbD players can.
Comments
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The only thing i consider "toxic" is dc and tge hatemail i get. Ive never been so angry in a game i felt it necessary to send hate mail to tge other side, or gloat. Its riduculous
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Yeah compared to other games, and even other gaming forums, DBD is about average.
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LoL in a nutshell: "give mid or int"
CSGO in a nutshell: hs by teammate when round starts just because you lost pistol and didn't say gg
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Dude, almost nothing you mentioned here was anymore toxic than what happens in DBD, especially on console. You will get the same words, the same #########, the same TorreNted harrasment (in fact probably more because steam and the like are better able to handle bans) and the same outside and inside behavior.
Sexual harrasment, racial slurs, threats if violence- I'm pretty sure someone even has gotten doxxed
The worst of it is those games you have actually have a functional competitive component. No one takes a DBD tourney that serious, its a niche, fairly casual game.. and in spite of that it rivals the games you mentioned with a much smaller community and a divide that basically creates derisiveness from the nature of the "roles" and your preference for either. At least in those communities, most folks can agree on certain things that need nerfing and what should receive balance changes. Good luck achieving that here.
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DBD is the only online game I have played so can't compare. But judging by how the world is nowdays I would guess it's pretty much the same everywere in any game. It's a shame.
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I understand what you're saying, but the things I was focusing on with my discussion are more gameplay-related than communication, and even then it's still far worse. People have been doxxed endlessly on League and CS:GO, and the harrassment is through the roof on those games as well. At least on DbD (as a good-natured solo Survivor), I have far more games without bad behavior than with, not to mention the fact that you can only use text chat in the end-lobby. But in regard to gameplay, there are far more opportunities to ruin players' games in the games that I mentioned, and winning and losing matters much more as well.
Much of the communication toxicity on DbD can be avoided by leaving end-lobby as soon as you get to it and disabling comments on your profile. On console, you can simply block receiving mail from other players, I believe. But, take away the communication toxicity from DbD (and ignore the forums, since they are NOT vital to playing the game and are only representative of a fraction of the people on DbD), and you're left with simple in-game behaviors that are ill-mannered and rude, but not "toxic".
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I don't think someone calling me a bad word or insulting me based on a skin color is NEARLY as bad as someone on League INTENTIONALLY trying to make me and the entire team lose as well as giving the enemy team a free win is the same, if someone on DBD "upsets" you can literally get up from your PC and go do something else with no repurcusions, not on League though guy says he's going to break into your house **** your dog and then kill your family all while walking into the enemy team but if you leave the game or AFK then EZ ban for you nice 20+ minutes wasted on nothing but free rank loss and frustration just play better next time right? I guess words on a screen that ultimately have no impact on the game is somehow worse than someone actually ruining your game and wasting your time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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but this game isnt competive peepoWTF
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I read the first couple of paragraphs and you missed the most important thing: Insults and DEATH THREATS in the after-game chat.
DbD is an unbalanced party game, nothing more, and death threats in the after-game chat are a very common thing.
Imagine people playing Mario Party and sending their opponents death threats. Sounds insane, right? But it's the "normal" in DbD.
This community is one major reason why I wouldn't recommend DbD to anyone.
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Huh, fair points there man. The endless doxxing there surely takes the cake. That said I never was a major fan of any Moba or CSGO, so my personal experience is limited.
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Dude, survivor ques used to take 15 mins on PS4, a survivor being toxic cost you at times, at minimum a de-pip and a 15 min wait.
and btw voice comms exist there, people can send you hate mail much easier on console, and I've been threatened and bullshitted in this game. If you actually ready post you might know it has gone farther than just a text in end game chat, which isn't even on console so your whole argument is a strawmen. But keep being condescending and wrong, you literally are flexing about what community is more toxic. I'm sure that energy gets you alot of positive attention.
Also good for CSGO and League of Legends, I guess?
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I understand that there are many people (especially in Tan rank) who will sling insults and death threats in the end-game chat, but remember that that is easily avoidable by simply exiting the end-lobby immediately after the game.
But honestly, like I've already said, League of Legends and CS:GO both have horrible issues with communication toxicity AND actual toxicity, and are far worse than DbD. The insults and threats that I've received in Dead by Daylight are nothing compared to the abuse that I and many other players have received on other competitive games, not to mention the actual gameplay toxicity that goes on in those games. And to top it off, players can be toxic through communication throughout the entire game, not just the end-lobby (that is easily skippable).
Also, by the literal definition of the word, Dead by Daylight is a competitive game. 4 players versus 1, competing for points, escapes and kills. There is also a ranking system in the game, flawed as it may be. So, yes, it is a competitive game.
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I don't understand what you are trying to say, my point is that I would 100% of the time take the antics that go on in DBD over nearly any other competitive game hands down, like I said being held hostage in a game for 30+ minutes and then losing cause a teammate had a tantrum is far worse than someone telling me to kill myself over the internet. Also as a survivour you are the main factor in your score, if someone is trolling or AFK then it is still within your power to earn a black pip and not de-rank. Also with my original post I had no intention of being rude or condescending
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"Toxicity" in League of Legends can actually ruin your game. Teammates can repeatedly let themselves be killed by the enemy, thus boosting the enemy team and pushing them ahead of your team. Teammates can also become upset and sit AFK in the spawn platform or disconnect.
Isn't that just killing yourself on hook? Or just AFKing? or Just DCing?
Teammates can also shoot you throughout the game (without getting kicked) and also kill you throughout the game (without getting kicked)
False, I play cs:go and you get kicked for dealing too much damage to teammates.
The real reason it's different from other games is just because it's more stressful, 1v4, and 4 people can just bully you and you alone with random tbagging and clickly clacking. I'm not saying it's utterly unbalanced, I'm saying it's just a very unfun experience compared to toxic teammates in r6s or csgo.
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Well, you did the moment you discounted others experience with Toxicity in this game. Someone getting doxxed on this game is no different than getting doxxed on another.
And it's funny you even brought up game stalling - look for the multiple threads about how survivors would literally play locker jockey and never leave. If you haven't played this game before end game collapse, I get it, but stalling for 20 mins was something almost every killer in this game has experienced. Ask about Blendette squads and how this game looked before it got a major optimization change. This was of course before end game collapse, but even now, someone just posted about survivors refusing to leave, steal thing the edges of the map, and just refusing to play the game.for about an hour and a half...
I don't even think stalling was originally a reportable offense, but survivor players abused it so hard.
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hahaha, then play csgo, then you never talk about toxic guys... xD
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The issue isn't the game. The issue is internet anonymity & a lack of meaningful consequences. It's the same reason you see so many trolls on social media. People do things online that they rarely, if ever, would do in real life... because there would be actual consequences.
Same reason why people throw a fit in public if someone pulls out their phone & starts recording them. Because suddenly them acting like a brat might wind up with them losing their job or what not.
This isn't a subject that's a whataboutism. What about Counterstrike? What about League of Legends? What about X? We're not trying to measure how much of an a-hole the average person is in varying different communities. The common denominator is they're all internet based mediums.
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Humans are generally #########. Especially when there is no accountability.
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I perfectly understand what you're saying, but I don't think that applies here... I'm simply talking about how DbD "toxicity" isn't real toxicity, and the word is quite overused here and on the Steam discussions.
Undoubtedly, there are a lot of aggressive and rude individuals on DbD, but that isn't "toxicity", it's simply poor behavior and aggression. True toxicity is on games that actually have mechanics that can be abused to the detriment of one's teammates, like friendly fire on CS:GO and "running it down" on League of Legends.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that people are overly sensitive to the "toxicity" that occurs on Dead by Daylight when other competitive games have far worse, actual toxicity going on. Like, someone throwing a fit in end-chat can be easily avoided, and if a game goes south (teammates griefing or whatever) you can just AFK or ######### on hook. I myself stay in end-chat just to make sure to report people who are overly aggressive and rude, but if people can't handle it then they should probably just skip it and not worry about it, instead of flying to the forums and complaining.
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My point was that the negative behavior that players can exhibit on Dead by Daylight is not nearly as detrimental to your gaming experience as negative behavior on League or CS:GO. Especially since rank is much harder to earn and maintain on those games, and one bad game can set you back a mile. When my teammates D/C or AFK on DbD, I still have fun and move on to the next game, since ranking really doesn't matter and I can still earn good points.
And of course you get kicked for dealing too much damage on CS:GO, but you can still negatively impact several rounds before you get booted, and that can be enough to ruin an entire match and hurt your teammates ranks.
I think the bottom line is that people take DbD gameplay too personally, instead of realizing that the players (9 times out of 10) aren't targeting them personally, and even if they are targeting them they're probably just targeting their character or didn't like a behavior they did during the match. Nothing to have a fit over.
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I find Seige toxic af. So many jackasses teamkill for no reason
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I never said DbD is not competitive. 🤦♀️ But "competitive" is NOT the same as "e-sports". DbD IS an unbalanced party game that is made for casual players. A comparison with Mario Party is a way better fit than LoL, Overwatch, CS:GO etc.
And the whole "just close the after-game chat" thing when it comes to death threats: How about the DbD devs perma-banned these people instead? I play on PS4, we don't have an after-game chat, people can only message via the PSN messenger which is handled by Sony. If people pull that stuff on PSN, they will lose their entire account.
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I ultimately hate when people DC as it screams sore losers no matter what role or opposing side. Toxic players also like to message me on PSN and tell me I'm garbage because I win/lose or I camped, tunneled, and slugged. They mainly do this to troll by getting me to swear at them so it can be an easy suspension by PS Safety. Even if I was just being witty. Anyway, I think toxicity exists because of unfair components in games or cockiness in skill.
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I must admit I sometimes partake in what some may class as "toxic"
It's because I'm a solo survivor and we know how frustrating it can be. Being farmed or dying on first hook etc.
I'm never nasty at all but do let my frustrations get the better of me sometimes and ask for an explanation of bad gameplay.
I think SWF's are the most pure toxic. A log of solo survivor messages come more out of frustration a long with killers that have just been bullied!!
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I think the bigger problem with DBD is that toxicity is much more common And I'm talking about the kind that actually ruins games. You can have a killer facecamp you or tunnel you out of a game (yes, I know these a valid strategies to winning, but they are toxic). Or you can have survivors who d/c, throw down pallets for no reason, sandbag, etc. These players can be found in 1/4 matches, if not more.
Meanwhile, in a game like league...sure the toxicity really does take over a game and leave you frustrated. But 3/4 times, the toxic players still want to win and won't actively int/run it down. They'll softly throw the game by becoming keyboard warriors, but you can just mute them and ignore that. Plus, the other team will usually also get someone else with the same disposition, so you can also make them become toxic. Whereas, one person in this game can entirely destroy the experience.
Same goes for OW. Toxicity in overwatch is there, but I rarely feel hopeless because of it or is it so impactful that you are just screwed (outside of a ragequit/afk ).
DBD just needs to find a way to make the toxicity either less frequent or have less of an impact on a game. Games are literally destroyed by 1 person. But this isn't the case with LoL or OW.
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