noed is killer side adrenaline
a speed boost, a skipped health state, a crutch for weaker players , a shock to the other side. why does one get so much more hate than the other?
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I support changing both of them, for what it's worth. But to answer your question, it's because Adrenaline activates when the Survivors are basically ahead whereas NOED activates when the Killer is behind (except when the hatch is closed, but at that point, NOED doesn't make much of a difference).
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Good question, I have never wondered that so I will just comment this so I won't forget this thread exists and I can read it once people have answered.
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probably because one last 5 seconds, the other until it's cleansed, and healing a health state can be done in 15 seconds without the perk anyway. NOED is an instadown that usually gives the killer a free kill.
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but it can heal a dying player to injured when the killer closes the hatch and if the doors are open at that point it can take an earned kill away just as surely as noed can give it
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Then just hook the survivor before you close the hatch and I think why most people don't like NOED is because it often rewards bad killers as it activities when the killer literally fails their objective.
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The game "literally" is made so killers fail at their objective unless the survivors screw up.
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Its not because the killer is behind that he fail. survivor can bring 4 second chance perk in a single loadout and if they get ormond most of the time the killer will lose but noed can help when those scenario happen and give the killer a safety pip
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this isnt uncommon thing your telling me you never had 2 survivor left saw that they were together downed one and chased the other to the other side of the map hooked them and closed the hatch you saw earlier? thats an easy win for the downed player. ragging on "lose less" perks for being crutches isnt any harder than ragging on "win more" perks for making games too predictable
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I know there are lots of different factors that can influence them, but I think it mainly comes down to: In most cases, noed rewards you for losing, while adrenaline rewards you for winning
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This.
I wouldn't mind if noed worked like Devour Hope. Get 5 stacks and you get your 4 insta-downs. Earn noed like survivors have to earn adrenaline.
By the same token, don't activate adrenaline when hatch closes, only when all gens are done.
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Like I said, I support changing both.
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Because survivors see adrenaline as a reward for already winning, and noed as a reward for losing.
In reality the endgame is neither a win nor a loss for either side until everyone's left or died.
Noed is like a reverse stalling perk, rather than slowing generators down, you prepare for them going quickly and capitalise off that. However it relies on the laziness of survivors whose mentality is "5 gens = win." Funnily enough it's those same survivors who tend to be the ones who run adrenaline as it means they can get the last gens done while risking being injured because of the free heal.
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andrenaline rewards survivors for good gameplay, NOED reward killers for bad gameplay. Its that simple
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i dont think win-more perks like Adrenaline are just better conceptually than lose-less perks like noed. if every perk was a win-more perk you could call the game for kill or survivor 30 seconds in and the next 4 minutes it be little more than a cut-scene this keeps it fresh. not to mention i bet none of you would dream of make the same argument for survivor lose-less perks like ds, borrowed times, dead hard and the like
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1. People complain about NOED because it rewards underperforming whereas Adrenaline awards good performance.
2. NOED also takes no effort to obtain since it is a base perk that shows up on almost every web until purchased. Adrenaline requires you to play enough to level Meg up to 40.
3. Adrenaline is temporary while NOED is technically permanent. Permanently having Bloodlust 1 is pretty powerful.
4. Many matches can end with the killer not getting any hooks the whole match, and then getting a 3K because of NOED.
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No matter how often the community tries to make this point, it's not true and the devs said it themselves. NOED is one of the perks that will be here to stay.
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And the laziness of the killer to protect their gennys
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- adreline awards underpreforming survivors being carried by their team just as much as noed does for killer
- noed is also a hex perk that can be taken away before it can be activated god help you if they have a map or totem finding perks
- all hex perk are temporary and with late activation conditions not even that
- ive already made this argument above to other underestimating aderline stealing kills from killer with downed survivors and before you make the argument: "well just hook the survivor before you close hatch"= "well just do bones before you finish the last gen"
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The game is literally balanced around the gens being done mate.
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This is why I more often compare it to DS. Because both are strong perks that reward failure. Failure to kill all survivors before end game and failure for the survivor to win a chase. Both give an undeserved advantage.
Honestly tho, I don't believe either one is going anywhere. At least NOED can be countered before it procs, and can only show up once per game. Unlike a 4 man DS game.
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Maybe, but I still 4k plenty before all gennys are done. At least enough to feel NOED is a waste of time. I'd say on average, if all gennys pop, at least 2 survivors are dead.
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1. If you're getting chased all game to have Adrenaline pop, you carried the team, and the killer underperformed.
2. Neither perks are guaranteed to activate. Most teams also will focus on the matter on hand, especially SWF.
3. Hex perks activate late because many of them have broken effects. Like I said, insta-downs plus bloodlust that CAN be permanent during the end-game is broken.
4. You have to keep in mind that people play solo. Solo players are highly unreliant, so a totem counter would have to be added.
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that's not the point, if survivors dont derp around and play commando (basically sit on gens), don't clump up, do middle gens first then gens WILL pop. Again, the game is balanced around a 50% killrate and a killer who plays fair will get maybe 2 kills if survivors don't ignore totems.
Also the NOED killer is basically playing with 3 perkslots all game long so he's weaker.
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One DS may not reveal anything, but getting hit with more than one probably means tunneling. Solo queue is also farm>save, so DS is necessary there, but both perks are really scummy.
I just see it as DS = complaining killer; no DS = tunnel.
I don't use NOED personally, but killers should be given more power during the end-game.
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So is the adrenaline survivor. 3 perks that is.
Idk, I like to play as fair as I can, but I am not cucking myself and allowing gennys to pop. If survivors are getting the middle gens done, sitting on gennys, the killer is losing. However the killer has a big say in how these games go as well.
I think this is where individual skill and character chosen has a lot of say. If I am playing Clown on Ormond, I am probably losing my gennys, If I have spirit on Auto Wreckers, I may 4k with 5 gennys left.
If new match making actually works, maybe that will change.
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- would agree but those not apart of the optimal (1 looping the rest on gens) set up are affected as well not just those doing their part
- yes thats why i made this thread these 2 perks are copies of each other also obligatory :"just do bones"="just pressure gens"
- i assume by 'many hex perks have broken effects you mean devor hope but the rest of the hex perks being underwhelming is another topic. "can be permanent" again late acting hex perk also if you know where things are last gen completion to result screen might be 30 secs if not its probably survivors getting carried or being cocky getting a reality check.
- what to balance around is a hard question with rank 20's and rank 1's screeching constantly but i like that idea you had of a totem counter
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How is literally getting hit with more DSs tunneling?
The More survivors you hit and hook, the less time for tunneling. Unless that team can't win a chase, in which case how is this the killer's fault for outplaying them?
It's a BS perk. Even if you get tunneled, win a chase!
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Because survivors get rewarded for doing the gens whereas noed killer get rewarded for keeping the gens down.
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I think NOED can be seen as a counter-part to Adrenaline, but it's an asymmetrical counter-part similar if we were comparing the T-34 and Panther in Company Of Heroes. Both are medium tanks, but they're used differently. (T-34 will almost always lose to even the Panzer IV, and 100% the Panther in a 1v1, but that's because the T-34's shots have good AOE on them and are designed for killing infantry, while the Panther has high pen but low AOE and is more of an "Anti Tank Tank" if that makes any sense.)
I wouldn't call Adrenaline a second-chance perk but it's definitely frustrating to play against since it kills all pressure when it procs. A 4-man with Adrenaline often don't even bother healing each-other and spend more time on gens which results in shorter matches.
NOED is a bit crutch-y but there's counterplay, do the totems! Remember a match doesn't end when the last generator pops. The game doesn't roll the credits, "Killer lost", etc. when the last gen pops.
Also note the devs themselves have stated IIRC they want to aim for 2 deaths, 2 escapes as an "ideal match". This implies the generators will be finished and the gates will be powered at some point in the match, even if the killer "Did his job".
You can have matches where nobody even died but the killer got 8 hooks. (Hooked each survivor twice) Did the killer fail at doing his job in that case, even though he pipped? What about if he got a 3K but it was by facecamping everyone to death on first hook and depipped? He DID technically kill more survivors than the first killer, but in my experience the first killer "Did better" since he got better emblems, got way more bloodpoints, etc. Yes nobody died but he ended more chases, got more hits, likely pressured generators better, etc.
I don't think 5 generators meant the killer failed at their objective. What even is their objective anyway? Arguably to kill survivors, but they likely depip even if they 4K if they facecamp everyone to death. It can't really be to "Defend the generators" since while doing so is very important to make sure the match doesn't end super quick, if you never hit and hook anyone you'll also likely depip even if you drag the match out an hour.
Maybe I'm too much of a slave to the emblem system but I hate this argument that NOED rewards bad killers. I don't think adrenaline rewards bad (or really even good, since it procs even if you did nothing, let everyone else die, and killer shuts hatch, which is the same with NOED btw) survivors either. They're just perks in the endgame that are both frustrating to play against since they can snatch what seemed like victory away from you.
My ONLY issues with NOED are there's no way to easily track remaining dull totems, and killers who facecamp out the gate with 5 gens left, then use NOED to get an extra kill. But the NOED facecamper thing is more of a player issue than a problem with NOED itself since if you nerfed the heck out of NOED these players would still facecamp anyway, they'd just use Rancor instead for the glorious free insta-down and mori on the obsession and bloodwarden to block the gates so they have more time to facecamp.
I will note that I seem to play better with NOED even if I never reach the endgame. Maybe just having it equipped is a bit of an anti-anxiety thing for me and I'm not as stressed since I always have my "ace in the hole" if things go sour, and I seem to play better since I'm not as worried.
EDIT: For a totem counter I want it part of small game, or as a little shrine thing with a candle holder thing in the basement. Match starts with 5 candles lit representing the 5 totems, and each totem destroyed extinguishes a candle. There's no actual warning if the killer has NOED or not before endgame, it's just a way to track remaining totems on the map.
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whats the problem with a catch up perk like noed? or a second chance/anti momentum perk like DS for that matter? this isn't an esports game.
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even in esports gmaes they balance win-more perks-with lose-less perks example: in csgo round loss money snowballs to rival round win money giving teams on a lose streak a fighting chance
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There is no chase if you're getting farmed off hook.
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Most survivors are too lazy to get totems and would rather focus on gens
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If you are getting farmed that is ######### teammates, why should killer get punished for it?
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Guys, I know you're all killers, but please look the game with survs in mind too. If NOED were the same as adrenaline, if one surv have adrenaline:
.- Hide 5 bags in the map so the killer can clean them. It takes 14/4 = 3.5 secs per bag.
.- If one surv use adrenaline the effects affects all the remaining survs.
.- The haste status effect not last 5 secs, but it's active until the hex totem is cleansed.
.- The killer need 3 basic hits to put you in the dying state or 2 hits with an M2 attack.
This is the survivor version of NOED.
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I dont use noed but its a counter to adrenaline. Survivors have many of second chance perks so why should the killer not have one.
The reason they have it cause they are salty salty survivors, do totems no more noed easy instead of blasting gens and walking away with 10-12k points. easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Get rid of all survivor second chance perks (exhaustion ones included.), and get rid of noed and bloodlust = happy days
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Except adrenaline rewards survivors for doing their objective. NOED rewards the killer for failing.
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DS rewards survivors for failing, so?
NOED is a killer second chance perk, and it can be countered unlike DS+UB combo. It is totally fine.
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We need a totem counter, that's all
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The Ds+ub combo has a counter don't tunnel.that simple
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Wow, you must have not done your research AT ALL. Let's say someone I'm chasing divebomb saves a hook injured, he gets the unhook, I down him, hook him, the unhooked person runs off. After I hook him, the unhooked person is healing with nurses calling in my face, hit him, get d striked. I didn't even tunnel at all :).
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The real answer to your question is that this forum is killer biased. Take the following format: Poor killer, OP survivor, and apply it to almost any highly upvoted post in this forum. Hell just take a look at the first post replying to you.
That post skips over the fact that Adrenaline is highly situational and most times is wasted. Compare that to noed which is relevant every end game, it only fails IF gate is already open IF you can't hit a survivor or IF noed is removed before the aforementioned points.
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Or you can meet 2+ Blendettes with DS so you can't really know if you are tunneling or not
Happened with me yesterday
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it has nothing like adrenaline. adrenaline means you did your objective and you get a reward. Noed is more likely a reward for free. Like old ruin. You just put it on and you got tons of early game pressure.
Noed is the equivalent to sth like unbreakable or an exhaustion perk like dead hard. The opposite site has a free card to survive or kill in a situation they normally wouldn't. Additionally the perks are that strong that it can switch the outcome of the game.
So instead of getting hooks they dead hard to the pallet. Instead of getting hit and going on you get oneshotted and hooked. And it just required you to have the perk equipped.
You maybe can compare adrenaline with Devour Hope? Maybe?If it wasn't a hex? idk. You do your objective and get rewarded with a mori and 3+ chases less.
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Ah yes, gonna leave that survivor to do whatever he wants, like work on a generator as gens take 80 SECONDS TO COMPLETE, while DS is 60 seconds at tier 3.
If the survivor has DS at the exit gate you might as well not pick them up at that point as you have no chance of hooking them.
and slugging, most of the perks i’ve seen paired with DS is Unbreakable, pretty much add soul guard to that and the survivor is LITERALLY INVINCIBLE FOR 60 SECONDS.
So yeah, while we are here, perks not anti-tunnel its anti-momentum
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More often than not that killer will down the person who just got unhooked and either slug them or hook them again.
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This may be true, but it is still the survivor's fault for an unsafe unhook. It kills me how often this happens to me when I play solo, and not even BT.
But as frustrating as it is, I am not mad the killer, but more annoyed at the survivor that farmed me.
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Because noed rewards killers for losing and adrenaline rewards survivors for doing their only objective.
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like doing bones?
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