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DS and NOED do not need changes/removal
NOED acts as a perk to punish survivors who want to rush the game and not do bones at all. A lot of times the killer isn't even running NOED but the idea that it might be there is powerful, and encourages wasting some time on totems.
DS acts as a tunneling prevention perk, a lot of times the survivor won't even have DS and the killer still slugs for 60s or just goes for the unhooker. The idea that DS is there is powerful
Imagine if DS or NOED weren't there
Survivors wouldn't give 2 shlts about bones games would go in like 4 minutes
Killers would just tunnel you off the hook and make it a 1v3 at 3 gens.
"bUt wHAt iF i aM oN mIDwICH!!?!"
Midwich got the totem spots right
Take some time to watch a vid on all totem spots on the map it won't be an issue in no time, there's like one of these for each map.
'bUt, iF thEY jUmp iN lOckER!"
Eat the DS, or just leave the man alone. Just go for the unhooker in the first place and this wouldn't be a problem at all, they fixed BT for a reason.
Comments
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So true i hate tunnelers and i see the point in noed
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I just think that DS should turn off if you start working on a gen or totem. Clearly you aren't being tunneled at that point, so...
But I generally agree.
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Ds needs a little buff to anti tunnel aspect and massive utter Armageddon dropped on its head in terms of "lol, immenity tim3, get rekt paggot killur!!1"
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Except NOED is not a good perk and DS is godlike.
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DS is a 60 second shield..... not a anti tunneling perk also so many survivors abuse it in the wrong way (Dive hook injured infront of the killer face)
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I used to hate noed even when palying as a killer, but over time I have grown to appreciate its role in the game. Mori however is still pretty useless and only serves to give unfair power to killers to both taunt and end games prematurely and earn undeserved victories.
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Ds ain't an anti tunneling perk it's an anti momentum perk the devs keep saying this and refusing to nerf the perk it's just to stop killers from beating survivors too fast
Noed is sorta like ds where it could be a factor in a match but it's less likely to show up and has a massive amount of counterplay but is a problem due to survivor laziness
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noed does not need any changes. its the only second chance killer perk while survivors might as well have only second chance perks.
ds shouldnt be removed, its just not used as a anti tunnel perk. thats the problem with it. if ds was used as a anti tunnel perk id be okay with it. however it is not used as a anti tunnel perk. people use it as a 60 second invincibility which is not okay. honestly i feel like this rework describes what i want ds to be
if a survivor with ds active touches a gen, totem, gets healed, another survivor gets hooked, or u jump in a locker then ds deactivates. ds has a 30 second timer but lasts forever when in a chase. this way itd actually be used as a anti tunnel perk and id be perfectly fine with it.
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My problem with DS is when the person I hooked gets saved and then they deliberately try to get my attention because they have 60 secs immunity. Sure I can slug them but if they have unbreakable that is still time wasted.
A prime example is I hook survivor A. I leave. I chase survivor B. Survivor A is saved. I down+hook survivor B. Survivor A rescues survivor B before I even get a chance to walk away. 1 of 2 things happen.
Survivor A has DS and survivor B has DS+BT. Going after B is not efficient because they will take longer to rehook. So I go after A again. If A gets into a locker I have to take the DS. If I down them before locker and refuse to pick them up, that's still time wasted. Unbreakable can render my work for naught. Even without unbreakable they can heal themselves high enough that someone else can do a drive by and revive them.
My favorite is when I take the DS, I commit to the chase and down them again. Then in the end game chat they ######### that I tunneled them. Well maybe you shouldn't have gone out of your way to piss me off. Did that ever occur to you?
In that situation there is no right choice. Both will waste my time and in this game, where on average 3 gens pop by the time you hook one survivor, time is very precious to the killer. Which is why I believe DS should turn off if the killer hooked someone else.
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I mean its almost always better to rush gens then to waste entire minutes looking for totems on the off chance the killer has noed. This game is a race and youd be fooling yourself if you think survivors have plenty of time to spare against a good killer. Especially with randos.
The only time I waste time looking for totems is if it's an easy map to find them all or if the killer is indicating he has it (obviously bad, playing a killer that typically uses it) the perk is just not common enough at red ranks and it's better to eat Noed then die looking for every totem. Noed is crutchy bc it means you cant pressure gens or survivors. Not much a surv can do if you're camping and tunneling them. That's why ds exists. Survivors on the hook deserve a chance to escape after being unhooked.
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"Only one sec chance perk" you have killer powers that insta down survivors. You have multiple perks that have insta down abilities.
Please, plenty of ways killers cut survivors health in half.
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Question, do you know why people hate DS? No, it's not because it's an anti-tunnel perk. It punishes people who don't tunnel. DS should deactivate when someone else is hooked.
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DS should pause outside of a chase (in a locker for more than 3 seconds, for example), that's the only change i'd make to it
NOED, the argument people always overlook is this, it's a perk that guarentees endgame pressure if it's active. However, you slap that perk on a player that knows the game at an advanced level, they pressure expertly, they have tonnes of momentum during the game forcong survivors to either hard reset their progress to heal and get settled again, or hard focus gens to get some momentum back on their side, now you have an issue, because vs that killer you aren't doing bones at all, no way you priotise bones against a good killer player who has you on the ropes and sweating buckets just to have potential to escape. You also have the argument of most NOED users have minimal skill at dbd, they don't know pressure, they don't know outplays, proper pathing etc, but because of survivors not feeling like doing bones gets them endgame pressure a lot, they use it on every killer, and rely on it heavily to carry them to wins. NOED either needs a token function linked to hooks in game to get it to activate, or it just needs to be something else. Maybe door related:
"When the Exit Gates are powered, placing a survivor into the Dying State while the Exit Gates are still unopened, causes any progression on the door to start to immediately regress when not being actively opened. Hooking a survivor while the doors are unopened blocks the Levers of both Gates for 30 seconds, has a cooldown of 10 seconds."
Or even still Exposed related:
"When the Exit Gates are powered, any survivor that will be sacrificed the next time they are hooked, suffers from the Exposed status."
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I still think that DS should turn off if a killer downs another survivor. If a killer takes enough attention at another survivor to down them it's not tunneling.
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Not sure if it was already mentioned, but many ppl use DS even if they aren't tunneled, you get unhooked, healed, somebody else gets hooked, killer sees you at a gen, and you DS him 50s after beeing unhooked
But at the same time a facecamping bubba can take the ds, still tunnel you abd hook you again, mwans you gained nothing
The change DS needs is to actually counter tunneling,
A change idea i found in an idea review vid from scott seemed quiet good:
Obsession rules stay the same, DS can be used multiple times, the timer gets redused from 60 to 30s (or maybe even 25), but pauses if beeing chased
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i never knew a power or perks like make your choice were second chance damn. a power is a mechanic for a killer, a perk is a side thing. a killer power cannot be a second chance its the power they have to use to win the game. lets look at all the "second chance" perks for killer
make your choice: a insta down perk. it dosent give a killer a second chance in anything. just downs
haunted grounds: a exposure perk that triggers at random. if you dont wanna experience just dont cleanse when you know theres no hex harming you. its that easy. it dosent give the killer a second chance therefore not a second chance perk.
devour hope: its a exposure that triggers when you do good in a game. it does not give the killer a second chance as it rewards you for doing good. thats if you can even get 3 stacks before its cleansed or when it gets cleansed at 3 stacks
rancor: it gives the killer a instadown mori on the obsession after gates are powered. second chance perks normally effect the entire team. the one kill doesnt matter as the other 3 would probably get out. you get a second chance at killing 1 person after the gates are powered thatll probably just hide once exposed.
and finally noed. the only second chance perk for killers: you get demolished and make it to the exit gate phase. you then have a second chance to win.
now lets look at instadown powers
billy: the way ur supposed to win
myers: the way ur supposed to win
huntress (iri head): the way ur supposed to win
bubba: the way ur supposed to win
pig: the way ur supposed to win
clown (pinky finger): the way ur supposed to win
ghostface: the way ur supposed to win
oni: the way ur supposed to win
so many second chances :)
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DS doesnt prevent tunneling at all.
Also NOED is still just a crutch that rewards failure. This needs a complete overhaul.
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