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MMR is killing DBD
First off, i love dbd, been playing on pc and xbox for 4 and 2 years. I get annoyed sometimes like we all do ut recently it has been at an all time high.
MMR sounds good in theory like dedicated servers and a dc ban, but this game has far too many issues and is nowhere near balanced or competitive enough.
So my issue with mmr is that the unbalance of the game will result in a boring sweatfest at high level play. Nurse Spirit, Freddy, and other boring killers every match as they are the only ones able to consistently beat optimal groups, while fun killers are limited by their kits to low ranks. Not to mention single killer wait times can get absurd at high enough levels and survivors can still last second swap or do other scummy mechanics in lobby. It'll be boring for survivor to only see the same 4-5 killers every match using sweaty tactics, and boring for killer to only face SWAT teams if they want to play their favorite/main.
And the last week of dbd has been unbearable for me, Every game i get the worst teammates ive ever had, usually a few hours played, die instantly, crouch around doing nothing etc, while every killer has been rank one,thousands of hours, going full sweat and I barely see anyone but Spirit, Freddy, Ghostface(my least fav killer in the game by far) and the occasional Nurse. My teammates who are either new to dbd or just awful always go down every few seconds, refuse to do gens and usually dc forcing me to stay n a 3v1 against the 10th Ghostface on Hawkins or lery's in a row.
Meanwhile no matter what killer i pick, i get entire red rank sweat squads. They last second swap, have thousands of hours, get lucky with maps that are always my killers worst, or bring the same boring Coldwind/Ormond/Haddonfield offerings and do 5 minute gen rushes, bm at the gate, and play as optimal as possible.
I find it insane that i get nothing like this when i play survivor, my teams are practically bots that feed insanely strong or toxic killers free wins. Why is a P3 Nurse with 6k hours and 40k kills going against me and 3 default claudettes on their first ever match? and getting killer sided maps like Chapel or Azarovs.
While every Killer match for me is seemingly always a 4 man or potatoes? They either pick a bs map or get lucky, ormond, midwich etc and pound out 4 gens in 2 minutes and all have the small pp build. Or they are total noobs just playing with friends that I annihilate with minimal effort and feel bad about.
Not to mention the awful map list keeps growing, map rng still exists, keys/moris/map offerings/DS/NoED all still exist, and solo is a nightmare compared to swf easy mode. while killer is just all around frustrating, oh and plenty of unbalance between killer powers, and meta perks making 90% of others awful or obsolete. Messy servers. Oh and the bugs, like silent slugs, broken vaults, huntress throwing a truck sized hatchet. Dc ban is great too I love being forced to stay if im stuck on a tree, or my 3rd haddonfield of the night. Oh yay another Freddy using a VPN!
Sorry for the jumbled rant, I love DBD and the dev team, I respect their care and efforts and love the community(most of the time) but DBD is seemly trying to kill itself with all of these poorly thought out changes. If you are going to do this, at least give rank rewards ad add a casual quick match mode. Sweat fests and lopsided matches aren't fun or fair when it is every last game. I can't imagine how much this crap will hurt our favorite content creators being able to have fun or good content and enjoy the game.
Thanks to whoever reads this, and the devs for keeping the game going. But I'm just so frustrated and worried for the future <3
Comments
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I play PC and Xbox, it is on Xbox and its awful. In theory whether it works or not, it will kill DBD
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Its not lmao. Everyone thinks it is because of the locked killer thing. As far as I know xbox may be having it tested but no one else has it rn.
(Side note why would they decide xbox to be their mmr testing grounds over pc?)
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I'm not saying that higher rank matches won't result in sweaty gameplay, but right now the game doles out sweaty matches anyway, and that's without the current MMR up and running on every system.
I play this game casually, and even then I find myself going up against far more experienced players than I should. Perfect example, I played a killer match the other day with Freddy. I'm a rank 13 killer, but the game matched me against an all red rank team who were clearly on comms because they were far too coordinated not to be. I had no business going up against people that far more experienced than myself. Needless to say it was an absolutely miserable match.
Personally I welcome the new MMR because anything would be better than it is right now.
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PC has the largest playerbase and xbox is easier to work with than sony, so they started with xbox.
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MMR on Xbox has lead to the worst matches i have ever had
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Scott Jund made a great video talking about why even good MMR will kill this game. It sounds great in theory but so did dedicated servers, dc penalty and so on.
I love the devs but if the anniversary cakes were broken for a week, and ruined auras as a "minimal" change, i don't trust their mmr system.
Matchmaking sucks now, but on my tests using Xbox, it has been the worst i have ever seen in 4 years. Plus it will ruin all fun for long term/high level players and content creators.
MMR will ruin DBD, and i am terrified the devs won't listen to the negativity and force it to stay like dedicated servers and the dc ban.
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They really should just open matchmaking completely. No MMRs, no ranks, just pit people against random people with the only filter being regional locations.
Sometimes you'll face good killers/survivors, sometimes you'll face potatoes. Who cares? It's a party game for god sake.
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I’ve submitted a question regarding MMR for upcoming QNA and it got downvoted, people don’t realize that MMR might bring us even more frustrating matches than before.
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It’s been active on Xbox for almost 2 weeks now.
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I play on switch and I get what you mean on killers. I always get the same ones all the time. It's usually spirit, ghost, or Leatherface and they always pull ######### cheesy tactics and kills my teammates leaving me behind as they DC and I continue to lose rank because I cant do anything. Then as killer, it's nothing but constant loops and flashlights in the eyes and near impossible to get any kills unless you face camp. It's gotten ridiculous for gameplay in swf
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Sometimes I wonder if it secretly is active on PS4. Yesterday, when I was rank 12 on killer (was rank 1 in the past before multiple resets, so I have high MMR) I got matched against an all red rank survivor team. If MMR isn't active yet, why would it match a rank 12 killer against rank 2-4 survivors?
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Precisely because it isn't using MMR? ie. it's totally random matchmaking lol.
This kind of stuff is the exact reason I stated they need to be transparent about how the MMR system ranks players, with clear ratings. Because active or not, as long as there is no MMR rating, but "ranks" exist there is literally 0 way for players to know it's having any effect at all.
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The current/old matchmaking system is designed to match killers with survivors who are about the same seasonal rank, it's not supposed to be completely random. MMR is supposed to match killers or survivors who purposefully de-rank or go inactive for awhile causing multiple rank resets, with people who are at their actual skill level, instead of with people who are around their current seasonal rank. The fact that it matched me, a former rank 1 but current rank 12 killer, against a team of survivors who are rank 2-4, makes it seem like MMR is already active. And it wasn't just that 1 match either, I'm getting at least 1 red rank survivor in just about every match now as killer.
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I dont understand. On the one hand, you rant that you get only red rank survivors as killer, on the other hand you want those groups go against low rank killers, right?
You rant about only seeing the same (the viable ones) killers, because you can´t steamroll low killers that way.
So balance clearly is not your concern.
The problem with swf is not a problem with matchmaking, but with swf. I have the hope that the new matchmaking makes this very visible, so something has to be done with swf.
The rest are balance issues that might get worked at if you have a good skillbased matchmaking.
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matchmaking sucks but i don't have high hopes for the new mmr tho.
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Everyone complains about the Cake bug but no one talks about the 140 bug.
The cakes were giving 140% personal instead of 104% globally.
So you were getting 36% more personal Blood points. Also, i don't saw anywhere a "date of expiry" on the cakes, as i don't have any date of expiry on last year's cake. So if you see they're bugged, do as almost everyone, save them. I've more than 300 cakes in just one killer (Legion) by just saving them until i saw they fixed the issue.
About MMR...
I can't really complain about the system. The idea behind it is amazing and i think its a good path in the correct direction. Yeah, i also have xbox Dead by daylight and after the update my experience playing in DbD with xbox is pretty okay, better than before.
I find killers of my level, as they find me since im pretty near their level (not very good in xbox, im better in pc).
Have a nice day!
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Just have SWF count each member's score as like 25-50% higher, depending on how many are in a group.
4-man SWF kill squad each with individual crazy high MMRs, let's just make up a number and say... 2500? The group will collectively have an average MMR of 2500.
Well, they're in a 4-man squad, so they get the maximum group MMR "bonus" of +50%, so now we add 1,250 so the average group MMR is 3750, they matchmaking will try to match them with the highest tier killers out there, people so sweaty they need a dehumidifier just for their pants.
But here we have a 2-man potato squad. Both have minuscule 300 MMRs, but they're still in a group, so they get a little 25% boost, adding 75 to 300 their group average (for the two of them) is now 375. Definitely a fair bit higher but still in the potato range.
And of course, unlike what our man Scott Jund says, I don't think it will make matchmaking "take forever," MMR matchmaking tries its best to pair you with people of your skill level first, not only. Then it broadens the search.
I don't think MMR will be a huge deal one way or the other, but I don't know how the numbers work on the backend, or their parameters or anything, I'm just saying I think a system like the one here would be pretty easy and I think would be relatively fair.
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I've been griping about this for months. Everyone said "oh these squads are rare, if you say you're getting them all the time, you're probably a bad killer, hours and rank don't mean anything."
As I said, these teams are far more common than people think, and when mmr hits, it's all they're going to be dealing with. The only good thing that will come of this is bhvr finally getting off their butts and realizing that this game is broken at the top. It's also going to be amusing to watch the "killer is easy" squad get their butts handed to them over and over and over again.
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I have been very worried about this, and figured that since I hadn't heard anything about it that it was going well on Xbox, unfortunately this is what I was afraid of and is very concerning, thankfully if it did go live with what your describing there would be an immediate out-cry about it, and hopefully something would be done about it.
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That Scott Jund video is not taking into account a lot of points that never have been explained, so this lacks a lot of information and possible scenarios. That's why it is a pretty bad idea to just take someone elses opinion and repeat it without thinking about it...
At first, most of the things you list are not even related to MMR, so not really matching your own post. The "bad week" does not seem to have anything to do with MMR but the random surprise bags we currently have with non working matchmaking/ranking (not to mention that you say "sweaty red ranks" while ranks have nothing to do with MMR)
The one point you mention to MMR: the sweat fest. I guess that's the part where you relate to Scott. Just two counter examples to what we don't know yet and what Scott completely ignored in his essay. Like never before, also MMR games will not consistently be build from players having the exact same MMR. Because that is simply not possible. The devs already gave examples like "losing against a higher ranked killer will result in a lesser loss of your ranking" so it is expected that we have mixed teams. Most likely (and that is just a guess) to shorten queue times. Probably something equal we had in the past, like the longer it takes, the wider the range.
This game does not solely consist of sweat squads and random potatoes. This will be mixed a lot. Even if. When you main spirit and constantly run against sweat squads, you will have a hard time and going to derank. Giving you easier targets some games later. The very few sweat squads will also not be available for every high rank killer, so the variation the killer will face is also most likely higher than "just sweat squads", but giving you almost no ranking progression on a win which will then not push you harder into the sweat squad region.
And we simply don't know how much tolerance the MMR will have to adress queue times. And this will most likely also be a subject for testing and changing. With what we know right now, it is imo pretty ridiculous to make any assumptions like Scott did. I'm not saying he is not allowed to think about that, it is good to point at things so everyone is aware of "possible" issues. But saying MMR is killing DBD is pretty much just a random guess based on no facts
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Well tbh it is a fact that killer potential can be put in tiers. And the MMR will PROBABLY work similar to ranking tiers in other games like league of legends.
If we take the killer tiers and put them against the MMR of survivors it will lead to a tendency of high MMR survivors only facing high tier killer at some point. This will ONLY influence the top tier players aka pros in other games.
The broad general mass of players will still play mostly like now, maybe with less rainbow matches, I don't know.
The thing is the aforementioned high end players are the vets and a good amount of vocal players that kept this game alive but the devs have shown to just balanced around the masses.
The MMR probably won't kill the game and improve the situation for most but at some point they will lose the top, however much percent, that don't look for a constant "sweaty" challenge.
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It's not killing the game.
Or rank would have already done that.
And hard games at high levels? No #########. That's the whole ######### point. That the good players are higher, and the bad ones lower.
Or do you mean, "I wont be able to cheese myself to rank 1 anymore because I'm not actually that good"?
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I really don't think this game IS a party game (independent of they advertising I never gave any attention anyway).
It IS a asymmetrical PvP! game. There is one side that can play as a "PARTY".
Normal party games like stick fight, works, ultimate chicken horse, speed runners and so on are made of a certain amount of players from a group playing against EACH OTHER. They are for a fun experience with each other.
If you declare dbd a party game then rocket league, league of legends, rainbow six siege, overwatch and so are also party games if you don't play ranked. But in these games you also don't look just for the relaxed friendly group play but a PvP experience.
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I agree with most of your points. MMR will be pointless unless this game gets balanced, which it never will.
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You are also ignoring what I said before. If you have pure "rank 1" teams (whatever equivalent that is going to be in MMR) then it might be right. But also in more or less working matchmaking in DBD you didn't have pure rank 1 matches or pure rank 2 matches. Even pure red ranks was not the common scenario. So if the MMR is working properly, you will have that weak member the killer will have to focus on, you will have that one top rank survivor the killer will need to catch offguard or ignore, you will have the mistakes from even good survivors that a good killer will have to take advantage of, even with a mid tier killer, to get the pressure he needs to win a game.
It is not that black or white scenarios everyone is talking about. And although noone from the devs confirmed that (because noone was talking about it yet) I'm pretty sure that also the perfect matchmaking system will not have pure rank 2 games. It will be mixed games and mixed games will also allow a Demo to run against a "red rank"
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Btw talking about tier killers. Not sure if all good Otzdarva matches as Trapper have to be titled with "potato survivor teams". But just saying. I think also Tru3 has done almost every killer perkless/addonless to reach rank 1 (and not recently, i.e. during a time where ranks at least had some meaning). Just 2 examples of course, but I think a decently good killer player maining a specific killer is somehwat able to put a killer like 1 tier up from what is the average opinion of a killer rank.
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I'm sorry but stopped as soon as you said "boring killers" sounds like something a survivor says when they had a bad day, also MMR is love in Xbox and it's been making matches better and more balanced. I went from last week having 4 rank 20 survivors to a more rounded group or high ranks. Matches lasting longer and more fun.
MMR is working so far.
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You, and literally everyone else, forever. You're pretending this is something new lol. It isn't, by a long-shot.
I mean, does that mean that MMR was active last month when I consistently was matched against red rank survivors despite being a rank 20 killer? Or should we go even further back? lol.
The reality is that matchmaking based on Rank has never worked. It has always prioritized location/wait time/connection speed over rank (which itself is a meaningless metric that is only indicative of playtime, not skill). So pretending MMR is secretly active because matchmaking is performing precisely as crappy as it always has is a bit silly, and kind of paranoid tbh.
The fact that Rank Matchmaking has done it's job so poorly is literally why people have complained for so long that BHVR is finally giving us MMR in the first place.
But my entire point is that the lack of a visible change in matchmaking and BHVR's insistence on propping up the meaningless "rank" metric is why I've remained so adamant that when MMR actually is active, we need a visible rating metric. Otherwise how will players know anything has changed in the slightest?
And considering your conspiracy theory, I feel a bit vindicated. People can't tell the difference at all.
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So I started to play recently, and I'm only rank 14 killer (never gone lower) haven't hit a reset yet, this Thursday is my first, and when I play I am only ever matched against 1-5 ranks. The past week or two, I have not seen anyone lower than red and its really annoying to me. I'm also a rank 12 survivor but these past two weeks, every single game I'm playing are green and yellow survivors against specifically and only rank 1 killers. It is honestly the most frustrating thing I've been through because when I first started and played with people in my rank, games were actually fun and my friends and I were balanced. But now we're slaughtered every game or when playing killer, we're faced with tactics we don't know how to counter because we simply don't have that skill.
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the devs dont care that, they think the new mmt its good, they never play the game to told that they ruined their own game for the bull#"#it
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Except I'm only 12 as survivor and I'm put against rank 1 killers.. And I just played a killer game (rank 14 killer) against 4, 4, 2, and 1
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The matchmaking has gotten so bad that I can't play without bringing a mori anymore.
It's either this or everyone escaping after looping me for 5 gens.
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Interesting to see how this thread progressed. OP described the MMR experience perfectly.
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Just Revisited this post. After taking a long break from this game and coming back to find it even more of a disastrous nightmare. Insane they keep pushing the DC penalty. I'm not a religious person at all but it seems like the divines are influencing them at this point to show them it wasn't meant to be. Stubborn developers. I cringe every time I see Ethan quoting statistics on the forums when discussing balance. Thanks for your comment now. And inner strength is my favorite Perk btw
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We need MMR.
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Yeah because I'm sure it will work out nicely just like hit validation, dedicated servers, the ruin Nerf and hillbilly rework. Oh yeah and the DC penalty which does nothing but force me into a 3v1 when one of my teammates Rage Quit or force me to play one of the excruciating unbalanced Maps repeatedly. Fix the hacker problems and all of the bugs. Then add a disconnection penalty. I'm sorry but I don't trust MMR with how the current ranking system performs and how the dedicated servers have been performing. Especially when we don't know how the MMR will work and it will punish people who play the game frequently by giving them nothing but the sweatiest and most boring matches against the same Killers or survivors repeatedly. It will also hurt queue times. Get rid of the ranking aspect of this game entirely. Just have point-scoring categories and throw everyone together. People need to stop acting like this is a tournament competitive game. It's a casual game.
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We were matched by Rank alone for a long time. Its kind of changed recently, by increasing the pool of ranks you can be matched with (or just flat out not working), but if this didn't kill the game then why would MMR kill it? They are literally the same thing except one is, most likely, invisible.
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Well things like those take time to put It in a acceptable place. I feel we need MMR because people are still complaining and annoyed with the current matchmaking. We shouldn't be stuck with a system like this.
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