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My Opinion on SWF...
Before any entitled survivor mains wanna say, "Look another killer main complaining about our completely fair game mechanic, git gud baby killer" no. I am a survivor main and I see the issues first hand with SWF. So let's go by this little by little.
2 man SWF - I find these less harmful and the least toxic, they just do what they need to do and go. Of course this isn't always the case, there has been numerous times where they both slack and do nothing. Or one does work just to help the other pip up essentially carrying them to red ranks.
3 man SWF - Bad for both killer and that random survivor (sometimes). They might just let the random die having them be the toxic 3 man and bully the killer all game, unless the killer is a pro and gets the satisfaction in destroying the team. Or they might be a meme group pipping down on purpose not caring if it affects the random. Sometimes they are good.
4 man SWF - Most the time they can be the SWAT SWF, sometimes you get that nice group that peacefully does their objective and leaves, and lastly the toxic flashlight clickers. I will admit I used to do SWAT SWF and toxic group, but I stopped after I played some killer and know what it's like to be on the receiving end. It really does suck.
So what's my opinion on SWF as a whole? I think it should be fixed in some way because it is unfair at the moment, even with the argument, "bUt sOLo CuEs aRe jUsT aS goOd." So as me, a survivor main to you (possibly) a killer main, I agree that SWF needs a nerf. It can ruin the fun for both randoms if it's not a full group, and the killer. A killer even apologized to me because they thought I was part of a 4 man SWF but it was just a toxic 3 man.
Comments
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My opinion on SWF: Let killers opt out. Simple. Especially since crossplay is coming.
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Look another complaint..
Reality of it is.. A team of friends in ANY game is always gonna be annoying to face...
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It's not that though, they ruin the fun for almost everyone, and if one of them dies they all bombard you saying "you camped/slugged/tunneled" or the "you used every single in game hack" and mass report you. Why should killers be punished a toxic SWF group wants to be a bunch of #########.
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so basically just make so dbd doesn't let you play with friends?
Just say that, cause killers will just always opt out... Killing matchmaking and further killing the game.
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that never happen sadly.
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They usually don't respond back, so just leave them be
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There's no way the game can detect "toxic players realistically" i mean the game has that thumbs up/down at post game and god knows if that works... Sure it sucks as someone who's purple rank killer and survivor the flaw lies within the game itself... There's no real way to fix that.
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Killers can choose if they want or not want to play with SWF? It's simple as that.
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I often play with my friend who has maybe 200 hours in the game and I'd say we 3-4 man escape at least 50% of all matches we play in red ranks, probably even more.
The info we can give each other thanks to voice communication is huge, just yesterday we won a 2v1 with 3 gens left against a Pig on Lérys. At the start I keep the Killer busy for a while so 3 gens pop in no time, after that it's more or less "farming for Emblems and leave" unless the Killer starts to camp / tunnel.
So I think SWF can be very powerful but in the end it depends on the players and how they want to play the game. 4 solos that know what they're doing can be much stronger than 4 friends that just want to mess around a bit.
Of course SWF will always have the upper hand simply because of their ability to coordinate the plays thanks to voice communication.
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and which killer is gonna willingly opt in to make their life more miserable??
Basically making playing with friends impossible at mid to high ranks.
My point exactly. You guys really don't put much thought on to how your suggestions will affect the overall game all these bandaid suggestions will only hurt another part of the game.
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Obviously there's no "detect toxic players" mechanic, but what they could do for the game is if they all mass report it should go under investigation of some sort, and if it is found the killer was reported falsely, the survivors who reported should get a temp ban instead. Why should the killer or randoms not in the SWF be reported?
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I did put thought into it, make it like R6S with the matchmaking preferences, they always have to leave at least 2 things left which would obviously be solo queue and they have to pick one of the SWF choices, forces them to play against SWF, yes. But it also makes it to where they don't gotta go against 4 man every game
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well false reports that's an entirely new topic... Yes of course i don't agree with that..I don't know how reporting gets analyzed on the back-end.. Bur swf teams false reporting should be flagged somehow...
How? is hard because how can the game detect when a swf team is lying or telling the truth? It would probably have to be reviewed in person.. but honestly idk
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Voice communication plays a big part, but they can't do anything about third party devices that have no relation in the game.
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Do kill your friends.
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r6s is 5v5
5 rand vs 5 friends
is a lot less brutal than
dbd
1 v 5 friends
It's easier to communicate around 1 enemy...But at the same time you put a block on that or give killers an option to avoid that and it will definitely get abused and turn players away.
As for preventing playing against swf every game then sure why not? I mean as a killer i haven't had to play against swf teams back to back yet...Though i think xbox has had the new matchmaking for a bit where it's mixed ranks usually... so idk
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Of course that's a liable option but some people don't like KYF since you don't get anything from it. Yes killers will opt out from playing SWF, but they are treating it as if all killers hate it. There are a fair bit of killers who don't mind it and get satisfaction from destroying the SWF.
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So make killers' lives miserable for survivors to have fun? Aka the sole existence for DbD thus far, right? Why should I care as a killer again?
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I find playing against SWF incredibly boring. It isn't hard to beat them for me, since they're overly altruistic. Playing against them is incredibly boring gameplay-wise, but incredibly satisfying after. I'd rather face solo queue players, because it feels like I'm actually playing dbd.
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That's not the point I was making, make matchmaking preferences, so killer doesn't have to play 4 man SWF every game, it's not fun for them. Some killers get satisfaction killing a toxic SWF, others don't. It's all a matter of other people's play styles. You say the game will be dead when killers opt out of SWF, it really won't be. A good chunk of the player base plays solos and others play SWF. If you wanna stop playing cuz you can't play with your friends, that's on no one but yourself.
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no
butcher a core feature of your game the ability to play coop with friends and turn away a good 50% of your playerbase, just to let your killers have a easier time
or
leave the feature in and just allow your killers to be salty every now and then enough to complain on forums but they end up still playing your game...
Which sounds better for the company and the games longevity?
The only true win win option would be to remake the entire game but it would then become a different game entirely.
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And that's why the choice to opt out would be good, as stated before in a reply to @JustNxck a chunk of the player base is solos and wouldn't be as affected by a killer not wanting to play SWF, while the other chunk are SWF players. They can get used to playing solos, because I started this game by playing solos, it's not that hard. You can still get a win, hell even meet players who's better than your normal SWF group.
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Yeah same, solo queue main here, and it's fine when running the right perks. Of course you'll get that odd match with bad team mates.
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Now you are straw manning at this point, you're trying to justify your precious SWF when it is completely unfair with voice communication features. That is a group who has thrown together a combination of 16 perks just to suit their needs. Yeah, everyone knows SWF isn't getting a nerf anytime soon. But your argument is basically, "killers mains are salty they can't get their 4k" that's very few, some survivor mains would agree SWF is unfair.
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and your missing the point... you don't know that a good chunk of the player base solos.. Most people when playing a game first go and convince their friend to play with them.. Imagine not having the option to play with friends on r6s, fornite, apex, cod etc... Ot would instantly turn away so many players...
Making matchmaking in a way do you don't have repeats is well and fine that's what behavior was trying to do with their matchmaking update..Spread out matchmaking in a way that allows more people in a pool.
You people continue to think in a narrow-minded fashion... The company themselves has no 1 bias..They will take the apprpoach that has the least blow back...
Removing coop is crippling and regardless of your personal opinion they will never consider the option of removing playing with friends because of the points i just stated.. So this whole post is pointless...
Literally does nothing besides start discord on a topic that has been argued since this games release
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it wouldn't remove co-op as a whole though you're missing that point that I'm making like I said they should implement in matchmaking preference feature to where Killers would have the choice if they want to face off against the survive with friends that day. You don't understand that Killers have to go through this 24/7 in red ranks because bread rings can get super toxic with survive with friends on comms.
Because the second that you reach red ranks it's just filled with survive with friends whether it be a four-man, three-man, or even a two-man, yes you'll get the occasional group of solo cues but that's super rare but with a matchmaking preference feature implemented you would be able to choose "hey do I want to play against a survive with friends this day?"
So in the end it doesn't remove survive with friends as a whole it only adds in a matchmaking preference feature that way the killer can choose if they want to face off against survive with friends or not it won't kill the platform
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I honestly wouldn't mind if it was duo/quad modes to choose from like most games are.
I 50/50 sides. But I'm a Solo Survivor. And can attest that 3swf with a solo. You are the odd man out and do get screwed. It should be only duos or squads modes and by choice.
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I always get SWF when I'm a killer and whatever... It's just friends having fun together.. I play with the same effort every match so it doesn't matter... Sometimes I kill everyone, sometimes not and sometimes everyone escapes and that's okay.. We cant win everytime.
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The point I was trying to make in this post wasn't just to say survive with friends should be taken down completely that it's ruining the game, the point I was trying to make was sometimes the killer doesn't want to play against the survive with friends group all the time because they just want to play a normal game against solo queue.
Because, if they can communicate somehow without voicing their communication then good on them that's cool but when you're going against the survive with friends all the time they always have eyes on your location even if you don't know where they're at yourself.
I've played survive with friends sometimes myself, so I understand that I want to play with my friend sometimes and I just don't want to play killer, but when I do play killer and I go against that toxic survive with friends group it takes all the fun from the game that I was previously enjoying when I was just playing solo cues or I was playing a game as killer that I didn't have a survive with friends group.
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And your missing my point lmao no sane killer would ever not opt out of facing swf... Therefore killing coop...
As i stated earlier behavior literally just made some big update post about changes to matchmaking to open up matches to not be so reliant ranks and more on skill... which would allow red rank players to play with or against people of different ranks...They've already done it on Xbox I don't remember when it was coming to ps or pc... but as a purple rank killer ived faced teams of red ranks.. sometimes multiple rank 20's etc etc..
They're doing this as a 50/50 solution to killers getting put against swf teams..and to decrease matchmaking times.. So that it wouldn't kill coop and it wouldn't force killers to face the same sweaty teams over and over ... and crossplay would only help to further that...
Of course that's the intention behind it.
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Yeah but there's nothing to do... If they create an option where you could avoid SWFs do you think any killer would opt to play against them? I think not. Then the SWFs wouldn't find matches and leave the game... That wouldn't be nice.
From my experience the toxic teams are not so many.. If they show up you just play without putting effort and get to the next game.. After all match lenght is 10 minutes average. It's not that much, just chill!
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My suggested solution: lock perks to 2 of the same per team (solos change nothing. But if youre in a swf, 3 or 4 man, only 2 ds, only 2 unbreakable.) This will promote actual team orientation, planning and more strategy then the same small pp build for all 4 toxic people. And wont hurt solos that don't have communication. Basically, if you have communication, less perks in your teams perk pool overall.
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Then it wouldn't be a problem with swf, it would be a problem with how toxic survivors can ruin people's enjoyment of a trial.
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i play 3man and 4man swf group imo it feel broken.
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They can't do anything about third party softwares / devices but they can do something about the imbalance between solos and SWFs.
Even without voice communication a SWF team always has an advantage over solos because they're at least aware of the other players perks, experience/skill and playstyles/roles ect.
As solo you just get thrown in a team with 3 random players and you have no idea how competent they are.
I'm not saying that SWFs per default are stronger than any 4 solos but put those 4 solos in a SWF and they will certainly become a lot stronger than previously when they were actually solo and couldn't coordinate anything.
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I said they couldn't do anything about a third party devices that relates to the communication. And yes, they do need to balance between solos and SWF, because say it is 4 solo survivors and they are really coordinated without communication, that isn't enough to compare to SWF like the devs said it was.
They didn't have any exact number for the statistics because they don't wanna touch on the SWF topic. It's because they'd probably lose a bit of players no matter what they did in fixing SWF to balance it in some way. But either way they will lose players because killers will leave with SWF the way it is, and solos will leave cuz they are unable to coordinate with the other solos and will possibly end up being killed because they have potato teammates crouched in the corner.
Obviously not all solo groups are like this, but a good chunk of them are.
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Why would killer opt out? Unless it is broken and needs to change? you could balance SWF differently than solo survivor queues, its not that hard.
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Simple fix : apply a gen repair debuff to swf depending on the size of the team : 5/10/15/20.
Or at least show to the killer which survivor is playing swf so he can dodge them.
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If a Survivor that is part of a SWF sees the Killer, it's basically the whole SWF that sees the Killer now. They all know where the Killer is and what they're doing.
A possible solution could be to reveal the auras of the other SWF players as long as the Killer is chasing one of them. An exchange of informations just like in a SWF.
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