In Regards to what Almo and MandyTalk said about MMR
Ok, let's completely ignore the previous 'Ranking' system for a second. Supposedly, "MMR has already been running in the background" (Almo) and "MMR has been tracking behind the scenes for a while." (MandyTalk)
Even if this Rank 18 Killer with 2 Perks (that he starts out with) is so new that he has almost no MMR score for this new system to have kept track of, how is he paired with me, who should have been tracked by the new MMR system fairly well and should have been raised/lowered to the appropriate level? Shouldn't they have been paired with people who have fairly median MMR scores, and then go up or down from there?
Ignoring the 'Ranks', in this particular game, this poor killer had a total of 1 hit when all five generators were completed, and then 1 other hit on another survivor as the gates were opened. So 2 hits total, 0 downs, 0 hooks. Then I assume they lost sight of that player and disconnected.
So if MMR has been working in the background to establish where players should be, and that our "MMR will not start at a default" (Almo), then why are there often matches like this right now?
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they obviously messed up. I will repeat what i wrote in another topic.
Any ranked game has a calibration so after 5-10 games you have to be somewhere near your rightful place someties rasing and falling depending on your skill, luck etc, but this game keep sending me noobs and not only to me, open stream of any good killer you will see the same.
this is frustrating. They for sure have have data on playtime, winrate and so on based on this info they could have created pools of players like for example "newbie 10-100 hours, beginner 100-500, average 500-1000 , good 1000-2000, supergood 3k+ hours"
p.s no wonder if they somehow unintentionaly made that the worst killers face the best survs and the best killers the worst survs it would explain all situation we are having.
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It took about 5 games as Killer to start being put against people of appropriate rank. Survivor is taking longer. My level 19 ass has been potato-bait for level 1-9 survivors vs. level 1-10 killers for at least 6 now, with no sign of stopping.
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This topic is getting pretty tiring. On the one hand I understand the frustration since I'm also obviously still dealing with the issues going on, on the other hand people have no patience at all. I get that days is a long time on the internet, but I imagine it'll take several more for it to settle properly.
So let's just consider some of the factors:
- Dead by Daylight has millions of players. Many of those come back around patch time, and despite their previous skill levels or ranks, they will have 0 MMR games. Whether they're rank 1 or rank 20, they'll need to play their matches.
- People in the initial 10 games are likely matched based on how well they did in previous games, along with the MMRs of people in their previous games. If a bunch of potatoes keep going against each other and one potato player keeps winning over and over despite not going up against amazing opponents, the early MMR system will push them higher and higher until they hit a brick wall, at which point they'll go lower and lower until their wins start evening out a bit.
- While I'm not a developer or anything, I imagine with a game of this player size and how infrequently some people might play, we might be seeing these big fluctuations for a week or more, getting more and more steady as the days go on. Heck, I imagine it could even take a month to be fully settled, but I imagine long before that it'll feel closer to "right" than it does right now.
- Remember, there's 5 players in every match, not just you. Again, you playing your 10 games does not mean the other 4 have played their 10 games.
I should probably stop responding to these threads because I feel like it'll just be a meme of me coming into each MMR thread and "defending" it with some big wall of text, but the reality is I don't know how it's set up or how long it will actually take, or even if it's properly designed. What I do know is that either way, it needs a little more time before we can determine its quality, and it'll likely be tweaked and touched-up as the numbers come in on BHVR's side.
I've been in many games where MMR is introduced and the results the first few days are rarely enjoyed much by the players, but ultimately it's usually worth it because when it settles, it feels so much better than just random matchmaking or even DBD's rank system.
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They aim for fifty-fifths.
It's useless if you have 4 veteran players.
It's balanced.
If you care
Let's assemble
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@Gay Myers (Luzi) The Q&A thread that you linked to has PatBrutal saying, "We’re specifically monitoring the experience of new players to ensure the system doesn’t immediately throw them games where they are hopelessly outmatched, and we have a few techniques that we’re implementing already to help with this."
Are these "techniques" just not working or have they not been implemented yet?
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my matches been all over the place.
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I'll just be honest as long as I don't have to sit in queue for over a minute toss me in with whoever and whatever. I just wanna play the game.
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so what do we do in the meantime? put up with it for an undefined amount of time? just dont play for a couple weeks? the latter seems the safest, because if you just 'put up with it' then your MMR is gonna be lower than what it should be due to the amount of rank 1 survs against yellow rank killers and vice versa. (for frame of reference, im a rank 10 killer playing doctor against usually rank 1 Sweat With Friends)
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Like it mentions in some of the other links, it takes time for it right now. It only has just been activated. Tweaks and adjustments can be made to the matchmaking along the way,
Ranks don't matter anymore - you don't get matched up based on whether someone in green rank or red rank. The skill rating matches you up based on performance and as it just has been quite recently implemented, the system might take some time to adjust your current skill rating. Which means the best way to get better matches it play continously.
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Solo survivor is messed up now, either go with a full SWF or don't bother. The new system will keep matching you with new players to the point where you will keep losing because all it takes is one bad survivor hiding behind a tree all game to throw a game Vs a high rank killer, because that is the matchups I keep seeing. The new MM system will slot you in with them for good eventually, because you won't be winning many games while it is calibrating.
I've been ignoring rank and checking profiles to see what the survivor game time is. I'm a high rank killer being matched with survivors with just over an hour total game time.
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but because myself and multiple people are being matched against people with hundred, hell even thousands of more hours against them, who we can at least assume would be better players (there are more factors behind what makes a good player, yes, but time spent in the game is a biggie), would that mean our MMR number would plummet because of being pitted against players who can literally and figeratively run circles around killers, or killers who can cream survivors?
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In regards of hours - hours aren't a clear indicator either of someone's skill. There are players who have a lot of hours, but they have a average game performance. There are people with little hours who have a good game performance, of course this can be reversed again.
Yes, i'm aware of cases of people who have just started out, but it goes back to the fact that the new MM was just recently implemented.
While I cannot give clear answer in regards how it's calculated or whatsoever, it could happen, but then you can build your skill rating back up.
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That’s not how this system works though. It auto sorts itself quite quickly. Within the first day of everyone playing is enough time to get a good feel. 6 games later it should be locked in.
My best guess is that they set the Placement Games MMR way too high. And they will stealth fix it if they haven’t already.
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This ignores one of the statements made in the thread you linked:
Ratings are initially based on your performance over the last few months, while the system has been collecting data in the background.
This is obviously not happening, because i played easily hundreds games in the last few months. Easily 50+ on nurse alone, and i'm getting survivors with literally 4 hours played who just bought the game on sale on my 1k hours nurse...
And i understand hours or ranks aren't an indicator, but they point into a direction. If you believe that i can have 1k hours played and was rank 1 every month for the last year but still be the same "skill level" as someone who bought the game yesterday on sale with 4 hours played, then there is a serious problem.
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This is out of one of the Q&A threads.
Q: For Killer specific Matchmaking: How will ratings work for newly released Killers? (e.g. Do you start from 0, or is it based on your other ratings?)
Every time you start playing a Killer that you haven’t played before (either because they have just been released, or because you have decided to try something new to you), your rating with that killer is weighted based off your ratings with other killers. If your Rating is relatively high with your other killers, then your default rating with a new killer will be weighted upwards somewhat. Regardless of where this weighted rating ends up, the system zeros in on a 90%+ accuracy within ~10 matches. The intention is to give you a head start towards playing balanced (and fun!) matches as quickly as possible.
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With all due respect, you didn't quite read what i wrote.
The devs stated that the system has been tracking your ranking for the last few months, but wasn't being used yet for matchmaking purposes. So it should have a general idea of your MMR (not perfect since it wasn't matching based on it, but it should at least be in the ballpark). And these are matches with me playing on my MAIN killer i play several games with a night. Here are the facts.
- I have 1k hours played
- I am rank 1 every month for the last year or so.
- I have played hundreds of games the last few months
- I have played 50 or so games in that time as nurse
- I have played 30-40 games in the last few days since MMR has been turned on.
- 15 or so of those games have been as nurse.
- My last nurse game i played earlier today i got 3 rank 20s and a rank 5. the rank 5 had 200 hours played, 1 of the rank 20s bought the game yesterday on sale, the other had played for 20 hours. I'm unsure on the last because their profile was private.
Then, to make matters worse, i played another game last night as demogorgon, a killer i don't really play, and i got matched against a proper team of people, it was a solidly balanced match, but i don't play demogorgon, maybe 10-15 games in the last few months? And my first game last night since MMR turned on. But the team i went against were all red ranks with 400+ hours in the game. Exactly what i'd expect on a killer i don't play. Again, please don't read into this as "i'm saying the old rank should matter" I know they don't and i get that in theory a rank 20 could be matched with a rank 1 if they are the same skill.
That's not the problem. The problem is that i'm getting matched up against survivors who don't even know how to use the killer shack or just hide behind trees, or run straight to deadzones, when a few days ago i was going against high level SWF on a regular basis that made for some challenging (albeit frustrating at times) games.
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The way skill rating is calculated is hidden, so I can't comment on that. Please give it some time, this is the main emphasis on giving it some time.
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See, this misses a critical bit that I started out with: "Everyone" is absolutely not playing enough to get a good feel. It might be enough to get a good feel for you, but remember, there's 4 other people in the match and there's millions of players in the overall pool of players, many of which who might play a single game per week, or far less often. I hadn't played since the game launched and only came back last month. As the percentage of the more active userbase plays more games, it should definitely even out, but some people only play on weekends, for example. So personally I'd expect to see it doing much better in about 3-4 days.
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For what reason would that be hidden?
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DISCLAIMER: the numbers i make up here are purely for the hypothetical below.
my guess is that if people knew how it was calculated, unless all aspects that make your MMR are even, people will game the system. if its out of 10 for survivors as an example:
2 for Objectives; 2 for Survival; 2 for Altruism; 2 for Boldness and 2 more depending on you win or lose.
so, if you do well in all categories but still get got, your MMR will go up because you did everything right, getting 8/10. however, if instead for whatever reason it looked like this:
3 for objectives; 3 for survival; 1 for altruism; 2 for boldness and 1 for win/lose
people will start to game the system to rank up quick. people will do nothing but objectives and become selfish, not bothering with altruism because it gets the least of them all. why go for the 1 and save someone when you can go for the generator and get 3? we would see survivors (and killers) start to all play a certain way in order to get more MMR faster, which isnt exactly healthy for the game. unless the differences are negligible for all of them, they wont reveal how MMR is calculated, or MMR at all for that matter.
TL;DR if we know how MMR works, if its not all flat and extremely simmilar values across the system, people will game said system for fast climbing.
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I have a better answer. Because its ######### and made up. They can make anyone's MMR whatever they want it to be to find matches better. They haven't addressed how MMR will work for SWF groups. Several days since release people are still having terrible matches that are incredibly unbalanced and skewed in one direction.
There is no system, its not working.
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they have addressed how it works for swf groups, it takes the average. it's in a Q&A in news.
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I have 1,355 hours in DBD. Constantly red rank on both roles. I have 1,752 escapes and 178 & 462 "perfect games" on Survivor and Killer respectively according to dbd.onteh.net.au statistics. I have been playing Leatherface non-stop since the update and have played numerous games with him after MMR went live. I should not be getting games like this at this point. If the system is working how an MMR system SHOULD be, I fail to see how we can be matched together under any circumstance.
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Those brown ranks are just performing at your rank 1 level dude. Duh
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Wraith is one of my top three most played killers in the last few months. I've not won every game, but I certainly have defeated solid survivors. This game was completely unfair for all involved. As a result, I find it hard to believe that the game was actually effectively tracking my ability with various killers for the last while. I'm not looking to have stupidly hard games that I have no chance of winning, but the same goes for total curbstomps...it legitimately was not fun having one of them on death hook, injured, try to save their SWF friend by hook blocking despite the fact I just picked them up. I felt bad destroying them, but being nice would prevent me from having a chance to get out of whatever MMR the game thinks I'm at.
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Mods/Devs: Hands tied behind their back as they are beaten up and assaulted by an angry community because they cant explain everything due to nda.
Angry Community: frustrated and taking out their anger in unhealthy and unhelpful ways screaming "where's the money Lebowski?"
Me: realizing maybe I'm being too unfair and snide in recent weeks but cant know for sure due to the lack of information caused by these NDA's
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