Killers finally have strong perks and survivors are complaining
So I checked in on the forums today because of the rush of activity from a new killer. I checked the new perks, survivors got a meh, a situational and a a strong perk. The new killers perks sound extremely bonkers to me. I think the new hex perk is kind of overhyped as a hex build type thing and also soul guard exists. The other two perks seem kind of strong. And of course, with every new strong addition to killer or every new weak addition to survivors, people come to the forums to complain about both the weak survivor perks and strkng killer perks.
I wont deny that the killers perks are strong but to say that its “making the game unfair for survivors” or “killing survivors fun with every new update” thats just overreacting. Are killers not supposed to get strong perks anymore, according to dome posts, killers have no build variety, which is untrue but even if it is, arent these perks what you wanted to shake up the meta.
Its not like these perks are uncounterable, dragons grip looks like its made to counter gen tapping, and the other two perks are hexes, which have already existing counters in the form of soul guard and inner strength. Its not like these perks are uncounterable at all.
Getting upset that the survivor perks are meh is very funny to me because killers have gotten used to getting bad perks with every new killer ever since plague while survivors have had many arguably strong, yet overshadowed perks. I shouldnt be surprised that survivors are upset, but please, cant you just let killers finally have strong perks to work with.
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The only one I can see complaining about is Undying. Think, if the killer has ruin and undying only, you have to cleanse 4 totems to get rid of it and under unlucky circumstances, 5. This also comes with tracking, all to the expense of one perk slot.Soul guard still exists though, so until that broken mess of a perk is yeeted from the game I want undying to stay.
EDIT: NVM i thought undying transferred to a different totem when cleansed, that's fine.
Still want soul guard to be deleted tho.
Post edited by Leachy_Jr on3 -
I'm really really hype about HEX: Undying, finally a perk that make HEX build more consistent. Really really hype to try it out.
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Lol no mate, the survivor perks are one trash one, and 2 ehhhh ones
I feel the ones with more than 5iq are just mad at the fact the surv perks are kinda booty compared to how good the new killer ones are
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Survivor have not been getting good perks at all, the past few chapter survivors have not gotten a single meta perk at all. Survivors still use the same thing over and over again, DH, BT, UB, DS, SB, etc. It’s the same 7 perks every game by survivor and killer. Let’s review the last few survivors.
Steve: Second wind is his only decent perk, but it still isn’t good.
Nancy: Inner strength is great
Yui: Nothing
Zarina: For the People is ok at best but not meta or good enough to be used a lot.
Cheryl: Soul Guard is good for the certain situations sometime you don’t even use it. Repressed Alliance is ok for gen jockeys.
Felix: Literally copies of old perks. Desperate Measures is ok and Botany is still better.
If there a good survivor perk from the last few chapters let me know.
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Unless they cleanse undying first. Now you are down 2 perks.
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Well, truth be told, I would rather the SWF issue have been dealt with by creating Solo and Team play as distinct and different Ques. That would not have punished the Solo people for the 5th Perk (Comms) which Survivor Friends bring to the game. Having SWF in their own League so to speak would have allowed the DEV to balance that natural advantage with either an additional Generator being required to power the gates, or who knows what else.
I am not in a rush to judgement about the new Perks, but I suspect they are intended to punish the Gen-Rush and slow down the problem SWF has created. It will take a good deal of play before we really know how they work. Right now it is all speculation. I can assure you that there are several Perks of the Blight that I want for Myers. :) The ability to smite people touching a Gen I've kicked and/or the ability to lock down pallets are #1 on my list.
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My only complaint is survivor perks are so trash lmao.
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Cleansing it removes all tokens so you will start at 0 tokens on devour making it useless.
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You lose the stacks if it's cleansed.
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Oh I certainly believe undying is strong, ive heard people spreading an idea of an all hex build featuring undying and I just think thats severely overhyped. I dont think undying is broken by any means, maybe very strong in right hands since people dont really know what hex is being cleansed until it is.
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The bias is dripping off this post.
Claiming that Survivors get strong perks all the time but no one ever uses them because "overshadowed" is one of the worst recurring arguments about this game. The perks suck. No one uses them because they suck. There's no special secret that Survivors are too stubborn to figure out. We perfectly understand how those perks can be used and overwhelmingly choose not to use them because they are objectively terrible compared to the meta.
Bar MoM, Survivors have gotten absolute garbage since David. The only truly interesting ones since then have been Inner Strength and Head-On (and Head-On is just a meme). Not one of the new survivor perks are strong.
The Survivor perks you call "strong" are terrible.
The Killer perks you downplay as simply being strong range from strong to busted.
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Yeah soul guard seriously weakens the existence of strong hex perks because of the inherent strength that soul guard has.
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The issue isn't that killers got strong perks. I'm glad they did.
The issue is that while giving the killers strong perks, they gave the survivors unusable trash perks that are basically slight upgrades on things that already exist.
Vision - Deja Vu
Whatever the item perk is - I don't use items so.... useless to me. But even if I did, getting extra use out of an item doesn't help all that much with how bad toolboxes got nerfed and with needing 16 charges to heal yourself
Whatever the healing perk is - Botany is actually better and this perk is only good when stacked with other altruism perks making it useless on its own
The best new survivor perk is a C rank at best
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Bias is dripping off of you too mate. Soul guard is objectively strong because it weakens the power of any strong hex perk that will come out, soul guard is an objective counter to these strong perks. I dont believe any of these killer perks are busted. Head on is strong, its just overshadowed by other exhaustion perks. Theres a difference between being weak and being overshadowed.
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I haven't seen any survivors complaining about the killer perks. I've seen them complain about the survivor perks though.
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Lol Imagine calling Head On strong 🤣🤣🤣
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The item perk being useless to you does not make it objectively weak, I can think of several times where id love to get more value out of a flashlight or medkit and that item perk gives that value. It has its use. I dont think the survivor perks are useless at all, the gen one is pretty useless but the other two are fine.
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So, in analyzing (as written now) the new Perks and considering the law of unintended consequences as well as the "intended" ones, I would say that DEV has rewritten the entire objective scheme of the Survivors on the down low. The Blight will cause several things to happen:
- Unless his new Perk: Hex-Undying shows up on the Shrine today, a lot of people will be buying Blight if for no other reason than to try and unlock that Perk for their favorite Killer. So, good marketing strategy at the very least.
- As this Perk diffuses throughout the community, it will have effectively 1.5x to 2x the number of objectives that the Survivors MUST clear. In fact it may be worse depending upon how many other Hexes are in play. In short, the DEV has realized that many people ignore Totems entirely in their single-minded Gen-Rush strategy (which was working) and have decided to make Totems the objectives they were always intended to be, i.e. important enough to require attention.
- Thus, instead of five Objective and the odd Totem people cleanse simply because it spawns near them. Survivors must now face the fact that they will have to cleanse more Totems. Gen-Rushing is in its final days. It isn't dead yet, as it will take a month or so for people to get proficient with the new Perks and get them passed around, but after that, we have a whole new ball game.
Thank the SWF. They brought this to you.
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The killer perks look pretty weak to me. If those hex perks weren't hex's then sure they look decent, however for being hexes they are quite underwhelming. Most games you are gonna lose them in the first minute and their effects are not strong enough for 1 minute of use. Honestly if they want to keep them hex's they shouldn't even have cooldowns on them. The cooldowns would only make sense if they weren't hexes.
Dragons Grip is the only one that looks just okay.
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i have seen this perspective a few times though I wouldnt say any individual killer hex is strong enough on its own to “force” SWFs to do bones
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Killers finally have strong perks and KILLErs are HAPPY to MAKE EASIEST KILLS WITHOUT SKILLS.Please, what is the point of this topic ? I'm not sure...
"Survivor perks are so trash", killers can legitimately kill without totem.
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Neither Soul Guard nor Inner Strength counter hex perks. Countering would be nullifying their effect imo and neither of them does that. Yeah, Inner Strength encourages doing totems, but it doesn't directly "counter" hex perks because you are good even doing a dull totem. Soul Guard has literally the opposite effect, encourages you NOT to do hex totems, and while I agree it's potentially strong since survivors can pick themselves up at all times, I have yet to see a single survivor running it (without taking into account people trying to get Cheryl's adept achievement, lol). I haven't seen a single survivor run that perk, neither playing as killer or as survivor myself. If there's a perk that counters hex perks it's Detective's Hunch, because it lets you know where the totems are so you can cleanse them.
All of this being said, the new killer perks are awesome! And it's a shame that the survivor ones suck so much. Because they do suck. And survivors are allowed to be upset that they do, lol. But I'm still glad that killers got such amazing perks.
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Except devour and maybe lullaby but from what ive heard devour stacks dont carry over. ive seen some swfs just power through ruin by hammering gens
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They still have to 2 the other HEX, but yeah it's a gamble.
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im glad to see people happy about killer perks, im mainly annoyed over people saying this is a robbery for survivors and a bunch of these other dramatic statements. I do get your point of how soul guard doesnt technically counter hexes, however I would say that the existence of soul guard still punishes the usage of hexes.
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What even is the point of what you just said? That the new killer perks are broken braindead and skilless? Id say these perks have an inherently high skill cap because of all the combinations you can do with undying.
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undying has huge potential, though im now seeing why people think the other hex isnt that good, but I guess those are the conditions of blocking pallets
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That was the first thing I saw coming on the forums
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If Undying wasn't a hex perk and was basically you giving up an additional perk slot to make survivors have to cleanse all the totems to get rid of your other hex perk, then that would be a decent trade off to consider I think. That would also seem pretty well balanced to me honestly.
However, it is a hex, which is where we run into the issue. You could literally have Undying cleansed first and now it did absolutely nothing. At least if it was say a Ruin instead you got a tiny bit of value out of it before it was gone, but this perk you got nothing.
That is way too big of a downside. Not to mention the side negative of also losing any stacks which limits which other hex perks it has synergy with in the first place.
Now if they added the caveat that its effect applies to itself as well, now THEN we could have some potential.
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Its literally not even that bad
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I definitely think stacks should carry over though I think its fair that its a hex. Perks with strong effects should stay hexes. If what your saying is that undying should basically guarantee you keep your hex effect even if its cleansed then what even is the point of cleansing. If you mean to force survivors to cleanse every dull totem, then yeah, but id think that would be alittle too strong.
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I would say until now. Undying + Ruin (and potentially a third Hex as well) means much slower Generators. Throw in any Perks which penalize or spot Survivors, say Hex: Thrill of the Hunt which slows down cleansing them and ALERTS you to it starting, and you have a real party. They can still try to ignore the Hexes and just Gen-Rush but that much slower, and I think the Killers will be able to keep up with SWF.
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And bear in mind, I'm not complaining about the change. I think anything that addresses the Gen-Rush and SWF situation is better than nothing. I would rather they had addressed it by breaking them off into their own League, but I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. The downside is the Solo players will also have to adjust, and perhaps that isn't that bad. They were never all about the Gen-Rush anyway, so in that respect, perhaps this isn't the penalty against them I thought assumed at first.
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"If what your saying is that undying should basically guarantee you keep your hex effect even if its cleansed then what even is the point of cleansing."
Because cleansing all the totems gets rid of his hex perk. He also gave up an entire other perk slot for that.
"If you mean to force survivors to cleanse every dull totem, then yeah, but id think that would be alittle too strong."
Would it? Giving up a perk slot to make them cleanse all the totems seems pretty fair to me. I mean that's essentially what NOED is right now. Not that I like NOED, but me not liking NOED has nothing to do with the mechanic of you needing to cleanse the totems.
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This.
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Yeah I don't get all the complaints. I like the new survivor perks. The one is only useful for newbies. But not every perk needs to be for vets.
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I dont see how soul guard is a broken mess. Slugging alone is extremely powerful to a point where it is making games unfun and not really a challenge in most cases. Having the ability to pick yourself up as long as a hex totem is in effect, in the vast majority of cases, is the worst situation for survivors. There might only be 1 or 2 hex perks in existance that are worth staying to use Soul Guard in the first place.
As for the endurance effect on pick-up, its not that strong unless you slugged everyone in a small location and everyone uses soul guard. Besides, you can wait the effect out before hitting people too. So I dont see how soul guard is a broken mess, when perks like Devour Hope and Noed exist. In both cases, you would want to hook someone ASAP anyway to progress a hook state, especially in the case of Devour Hope. In the case of all other hexes, well, if they leave Ruin up, thats only a good thing even if they can pick themselves up infinitely. The regression speed of Ruin cripples survivors much more than self pick-ups cripple the killer. The only hex perks I see Soul Guard absolutely being strong are Haunted Grounds and Thrill of The Hunt, ironically being weaker against Haunted Grounds 1 than Haunted Grounds 3 considering its a limited Hex and picking yourself up takes time. Other than that, its good with Unbreakable and even then its not really amazing.
As for Undying, I do think its extremely strong, but thats exactly why its a hex in the first place. The effect of it is basically to make other Hexes that are easily found stronger. Yet it also takes up a totem itself, meaning that you do not want to use more than 2 hexes anyway.
Unless you consider the possibilities, because funnily enough, if you use it in combination with Haunted Grounds or Retribution. It theoretically should trigger the cleanse-effect of those totems and still reset the totem.
So I dont think Undying is game breakingly strong, just like I dont see how Soul Guard is a broken mess. I think the killer has the potential to knock Nurse off her throne as strongest killer, but the skill it requires to master his ability is even bigger than Nurse. This is the type of strong killer I like to see in the game. Potential to be theoretically uncounterable, but requiring tons of skill. Not that Spirit type of BS strength where the counter is literally hoping you guessed correctly and the killer is guessing wrong, without skill even being much of a factor.
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Well, playing both sides, I would complain about how these killer perks are so much superior to the new survivor perks. What you said about those perks were exactly my initial thoughts. The only one that is really going to be useful is Desperate Measures, which serves as a counter to Thanathophobia. Visionary is just bland, probably thought for newcomers. Still, Deja Vu does the same exact thing, with the only difference that it works when a gen gets repaired and at the start of the match. Built to Last is the situational one, which is probably only ever going to be used for the Adept achievement and by flashlight users (and that, of course, is not a good thing). On the killer side, I think all 3 perks are actually insanely strong. I didn't feel the need for more instadowns to be added to the game, and I think many of those that aren't perk related should go or actually have long cooldowns or inferior durations. I wonder if, (god, I hope not) Haunted Grounds is going to synergize with Undying (meaning that a Haunted Grounds totem gets destroyed, survivors become Exposed, then 2 other totems become Haunted Grounds again). This update, however, brings forward the fact that all survivors should know how many totems are still up even more than before.
I do not agree with the statement that "killers haven't been getting good perks since Plague was released", however. A good perk does not necessarily have to be so OP that everyone will use it because it makes for an easy game. I'm All Ears is a good perk to know where survivors are. Thrilling Tremors is a decent perk that is used to know which gens are being worked on, rather than actually block them. Mindbreaker allows you to down survivors who start rushing gens because they have Adrenaline, instead of getting healed. Cruel Limits, while not extremely useful, will limit survivor pathing. Blood Echo is actually a very strong perk, countering every Exhaustion perk for almost a minute. Nemesis is kinda a niche perk, but still very useful when you are running an obsession perk based build. Deathbound means survivors are unaware you are coming for them for 60 seconds, unless they have a clear line of sight. Dead Man's Switch can actually have its usefulness, giving you time to hook a survivor and then come back for that PGTW. Of all these perks, only Demo's and Deathslinger's are the ones I have almost never seen used. This does not make them worthless or bad perks, it just means that, as always, people throw themselves at stuff that is easier and gives them a significant edge. There are lost of perks for build diversity already, and some of the least used ones can be really good in conjuction with others. It's just that 99% of the players in every community, and especially in this game's one I'm afraid, are cheap AF.
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Maybe the Shrine of Secrets will bless survivors tonight.
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You see you has understood me. This new perk exists only to push survivors fastly to the exit OR to clean the 5 before the 1st. gen. starts.
Ruin, NoED or Devour Hope will never improve the Gameplay, it just extends the game duration, to permit to make a kill more easily for the killers if the holy & damned totem is still hidden somewhere.
The last Alchimist's totems are just AN EXTENSION of something ALREADY contains in the game. Then finally, yea his perks are broken brainded & it doesn't required skilless. These perks aren't new mechanics, they are just another lollipop for killers and nothing else.
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Forgot GF came out after plague. Thrilling tremors is fine and surge is very niche. Blood echo and dead man switch are amazing on some killers or useless on some killers with no inbetween
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Well, I'm a killer main and I think Undying is a tad overloaded and overtuned. There, I said it.
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Lol no, if the killer has Ruin and Undying, the survivor needs to cleanse Undying so that the effect of Ruin doesn’t transfer to a dull totem when they cleanse Ruin. It’s a very niche situation what you described.
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im mad at how bad the survivor ones are in comparison , like come on, as i said before, the item one would be nice if anything other than flashlights , a purple medkit and keys was useful at 50%
and i bet it wont work with instaheals lol
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Survivor main here. I love the new killer perks. I rarely ever play killer anymore cause I hate it, but it's nice to finally see some decent killer perks. The last killer to get good perks was plague...over a year ago. Both sides should be getting good perks.
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This set of perks is really lopsided. I have long wanted a perk to protect my totems with, but this is a bit too strong.
Survivor Perks:
Visionary - Are you kidding me? Detective's Hunch apparently has a younger brother that is only half as good. No thanks. Seriously, this one shocks me. Sort of like having a new killer perk that gives either aura site for 4 seconds after a perk or bloodpoints. ######### would you run it when Chili exists? lol
Desperate Measures - Eh, might be ok if you are running a healer build. Not likely to replace We'll Make It or other strong healing perks. Maybe better than Jane's healing perk? Not sure....meh
Built To Last - ROFLMFAO. Seriously, no thanks. No way I'd waste a valuable perks slot to get another 2 seconds out of a toolbox. Next?
Killer Perks:
Dragon's Grip: Wow. This one would be good without the exposed, but with exposed, it is seriously strong. First, this makes 3-Gen Doc way too strong. Second, Spirit, Nurse, Billy or any other killer with a ranged ability just got real nasty with this perk. Perhaps I'll start looking to run one of them instead of Trapper. Wow.
Hex Undying: ######### are you smoking?! You just pretty much fed a tunneler/camper the perfect armor. NOED with this is inescapable at this point. The perk is already strong without the aura site. Now you can see auras of anyone within x meters as well? This perk just made Devour Hope and NOED absolutely game breaking. I can't imagine how you deal with NOED if it pops and this is out. It is over. ######### are you thinking? Do you not think of synergy? Sure, I love winning, but not when it is shooting fish in a barrel.
Hex Blood Favor: Not sure what to think on this one. On one hand it feels strong, but putting my own experience to work, the survivor likely covers more than enough distance after getting hit to leave nearby pallets unaffected. This one seems great on paper, but I'm willing to say it is extremely situational in practice. I just don't think it will be that useful vs smart survivors.
I don't like game breaking. It equals DCs and hook suicides. Few BPs and crappy matches. I don't like how Dragon's Grip synergizes with Doctor and fast moving killers. I think it could be great for putting the fear of the killer in survivors for killers like Trapper, Wraith, etc. You don't want to be caught at a gen while exposed, so you likely move off the gen when you scream. In the hands of fast moving killers or Doc, this could be an unbeatable combo. Hex Undying is pure broken. Undying will absolutely destroy almost all solo que groups. I love running Devour Hope, but even with the stack resets, Devour Hope will end games fast with this. Destroy it, it's still there. Destroy it, it's still there. Destroy it, it's still there....oh, and I can see you aura when you are near one? My Freddy is going to have fun with this.......
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The tokens don’t transfer once it gets cleansed, they get reset.
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You would never have to cleanse 5 to get rid of Ruin because Undying takes up a totem. And if that gets cleansed, Ruin stops respawning.
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Honestly that perk plus clown may lead to some actually scarry situations I mean not being to able to throw than at all is dangerous especially how fast he can end em
It's gonna be fun times
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I think survivors are just annoyed because we got another ######### set of perks. Desperate Measures can be good and will probably see decent use. The other 2 are hot garbo or lesser versions of already available perks.
I do think it was about time that Killers got some decent perks. It's been since Ghost Face that a somewhat meta perk was released with Thrilling Tremors. Since then, Killers haven't gotten a single recognizably meta perk. Most have all been situational which I think is fine and not every perk should be required to be top-tier.
Survivors haven't had many meta perks recently either though. Nancy's Inner Strength and Jane's Head-On are the only perks that are tossed into the low end of the "stong perk" category. Cheryl's Soul Guard had promise, but it's just way too situational and the 8 seconds of time it's active is just not worth the perk slot usually.
Overall though, the killer's options for top-tier perks vastly outnumber the survivor's. Some variety is all we are asking for, not to ######### on killers getting meta perks.
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