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Balancing around swf will destroy and currently destroys this game.
I mean just look at the new killer's perks, you're ######### if you work on a totem and you're ######### if you work on a gen. Gg ez, hope you're on comms.
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The perks don't seem broken at all. Just cleanse totems, do gens, and drop pallets you should still win.
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"Just cleanse totems" when every totem, even dulls, reveals you to the killer.
OP is right, the only counterplay to that perk is being on comms to get on 2 totems at once.
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Well, SWF can't be ignored. The ever growing effect it is having on the Meta is plain to everyone now. When almost all the generators are up within 3-4 minutes, what else could the DEV do but try to put thing in to slow it down? :) I made the suggestion that there be three types of game:
- Solo Que where all identifying information is only given at the end of the match to prevent any ability to setup a quick comms. People in this que could only enter solo (no groups).
- Group Que where people enter as a group, and the DEV could therefore balance the game for SWF's 5th Perk (Comms) by requiring an extra generator to open the gates, and/or whatever else is required to offset their out of game advantage.
- Custom games exactly as custom games are now.
This would have provided two out of three options where people could play with their friends for "fun" but allowed for things to be balanced. Oh the horror! The reactions of those on the SWF front that they might have to give up their clearly unfair advantage was ridiculous. Well, now you can thank SWF for a different way of balancing things. Because in the end, it MUST be balanced. Thus are born the Perks which pretty much require you to do Bones and double and/or triple the required objectives to get out.
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I was debating mocking your post or not, but after 6,909 forum posts I do expect better from you than "jUsT cLeAnSe TotEMs?!?!?"
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So if swf existing means all survivors must have the game be 2x-3x times as hard (regardless if they're solo or swf) , does removing swf mean we can nerf killers to be 2x-3x less effective? o.o
Survivor main here, before that annoying debate starts.. but one who has found way more enjoyment out of playing killer lately because of how easy it is.
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They should buff solos to swf level and adjust killers accordingly really, swf just has too much potential power compared to anything else in the game besides really good Nurse or Spirit with there best addons.
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The problem is that not everyone is swf, contrary to the belief of any killer who lost a match. Also, "swf is too OP because it uses outside mechanics... except when compared to two killers using built in mechanics" >.>
But yes, I 100% agree to matching solo que to swf and adjusting accordingly.
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Riiiight. . . because most killers can cross a map in the 15 seconds it takes to cleanse a totem.
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Spirit, legion, nurse, billy, blight, oni 50% of the time, freddy when his power is active, any 115% killer, any killer if they also have thrill of the hunt.
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It's just an aura, not an audible cue like with Thrill. Chances are the killer does not even recognize you are on a totem bc he is busy chasing someone. Just don't cleanse when you hear a TR or can see the killer, and you should be perfectly fine. And IF the killer is so protective for his totems, then do gens. He can't guard all at once.
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The devs really don't seem to care about doing that, though. Every time something has been brought up to give solos a little bit more of information that SWFs get for free, that never came to fruition. I think part of the problem is that the devs don't want to deal with the backlash.
Just look at the outrage that was caused by simply suggesting a totem counter. The issue is that in reality, most killers don't want to buff solos and killers accordingly. They want to nerf SWFs and buff killers.
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Distortion and Off the Record. Ez counter.
And a Killer can't be everywhere at the same time. Additionally: There are a lot of Killers who don't even use totem perks.
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So your argument is that there are killers who already do just fine with this OP perk mix? And that survivors need to waste a perk slot (or two) just to do totems? And that that survivor in particular needs to be the only one doing totems in solo que matches?
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What I meant: There are Players who don't use totem perks.
It's not wasting a perk Slot if it helps in the long run.
Soloqueue is hell, I know. But if your Team is bad, it's not the Killers fault.
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"If your solo team doesn't somehow communicate effectively it's not the killer's fault."
No, just piss poor game design.
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Can Killers choose with queue they wanna join?
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No, but the game is definitely balanced around swf. So either they have a fair game or a severely slanted game.
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That seems to be the sad reality unfortunately. I'm a solo survivor and just having bond and like every survivor having the entity claws around there icons would help so much with information that swf always have.
My idea for the entity claws under the icons is if there is an obsession the entity claws could be the size they are normally and every non-obsession could have smaller ones but they all wiggle if they are in chase.
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In the next update- killer get GPS navigation to track survivors at all times. xD
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Run distortion
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Thrill of the hunt only reveals people who work on hex totems and not any survivor who goes near a totem, plus then moves a cleansed hex totem. Try again.
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That is the answer: swf has always busted the game and as long as it is intermingled normally with standard solos there is no way the game be balanced. No solo can be buffed to match a swf because a swf knowledge is comes at them knowing how each other function, group tactics-even by expectation such as higher altruism plays and stacking perks around that by default- stacking and being able to plan and coordiante builds and offerings before even getting into a game.
Totem counters is a dumb idea. The best way to fix the game isn't to nullify the enigmatic plays of either side-survivor or killer- which a massive part of the game is based on and also the only part that has any remote horror atmosphere to it. There's a reason meyers is one of the few actually scary killers in game. It's to RESTORE the enigma, not reduce it. Just like killers have no idea what type of item someone is holding, a survivor shouldn't have a clear idea what amount of totems there are-unless totem counters are a perk which is fair-
Here's how to actually fix the game:
SWF now are in their own lobby search much like KYF. If either is lacking a killer or survivor these will be one joint search system that will match them up. KYF has some balance for this already since all killers in this mode have access to all offerings, addon types and perks. That help balance it out, since the killer can make competitive and powerful builds without punishment against a swf squadie. They can also all talk to each other so they can make it clear if they want a more easier, casual game.
Make it so the gens don't determine when the gates open, but each completed gen increases the "bar speed" to the gates are powered. It reduces the survivors need to gen rush like crazy and allow more avoidant/stealth builds to become viable-which also means it easier for them focus on totems or avoiding the killer/totem effects- it also decreases the stress of gen rushing, so killers don't just patrol 3 gens or so and focus on kill rushing. The biggest cause of sweat on both sides is that if gens are popping you feel like you are buggered and for survs if gens aren't popping you are buggered.
It would allow both sides to slow down slightly and plan stuff rather than missing one step in the wrong direction and realizing that's 2 gens or so that will or will not be popped.
It also stops survivors from basically becoming screwed and just waiting for the last survivor to die so they can camp or search for hatch other than altruism blood points.
Study killers and survivors rates with this new flow but most importantly, study their shared enjoyement of the game. Most killers make it clear that kills are fine but the sweat nature and swf are not fun and stressful: 4k or not. Then make changes accordingly. Be it buffs or nerfs on either side.
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Do you not understand that any survivor who touches or even passes a totem gets their aura read? Imagine a perk like that for survivors and the backlash it would face.
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They have a better chance than the other killers, this is me thinking about all the extremes, there are so many variables, a bad map like mother's dwelling or haddonfield could really screw a spirit over for example or the stranger things maps for nurse.
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"It's a crazy strong perk that I agree should be nerfed, but lemme try to argue with you more."
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Break the totem while the killer is busy, so they have to give up on something to even have a chance to stop you. Just like players have always done to break hexes through Thrill Of The Hunt.
Get on the totem right as the killer picks someone up, get on it while they're chasing someone far away... that sorta thing.
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So Solo survivors need to monitor where all five totems all and then drop whatever they're doing to rush a totem as soon as the killer picks someone up, hoping the killer isn't anywhere close to them... but the killer still gets to read their aura and still gets to flip flop hex totems regardless.
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Imagine a survivor perk that instantly gives the killer location any time a totem is worked on.
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It's 2m to proc, but then the aura persists for 6 sec (tier 3) regardless of range from what I've seen. I'm not sure it's intended.
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Except thrill actually has counterplay by doing dull totems, where this one will reveal you doing them too.
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Object of obsession works for the killer too and is hard countered by any stealth killer, borrowed time only works if the killer is dumb and tunnels the person being unhooked, and unrelenting is considered ######### yet let's the killer recover from missed attacks while ave the beat for last let's killers recoup from successful attacks. Try again.
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A pleasure to play SWF with your idea.
I don't play toxic with my 2 friends. We don't escape all the times at all. So, I have to play against mori killiers all the time if I play with 2 friends ? It will be a 3 VS 1 ? Crazy idea... All fair SWF who don't bully killers will play another game. GG !
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Then you learn to time it for when they're in a chase with another survivor, or occupied on the other end of the map. Why is this a struggle? Now, survivors may actually NEED a reason to 'do bones.' Secondary objective is more important now, if the perk is in play. Go hold M1 on bones instead of a gen.
Don't you want more variations in killer builds, instead of the usual slugging/gen pressure builds we have now?
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Totem perk is a hex, so you can cleanse it. Be smarter and cleanse totem while killer is busy. Do you think Killer is sitting in the ambush waiting someone's aura revealed?
Repair perk have 80 seconds cooldown. Also it is only one survivor being exposed at the time. So you find another gen and come back when perk is on cooldown, or wait until someone else touch it, or touch it and disapear in the fog for one minute. Why it is so rare someone take Make Your Choise perk? Because it is not so easy to find rescuer in a minute. And my opinion it is little harder to find someone that touched the gen. Unless killer not wasting time camping one gen. Also once you know that Killer have this perk you not gonna be dumb enough to touch the gen in front of him.
My opinion, this perks are strong, but not making killers win guaranteed. Even if killer take this perks it would mean he doesn't have some another strong perks.
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Hangman's Trick works almost the same
Get a notification when a survivor starts sabo
When carrying a survivor to a hook you see auras of survivors standing 6m from any other hook
And I think this perk needs it's longer sabo time back to be decent
Anyway... I believe that this game should be balanced around the realms (maps)
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wAsTe a pErK sLoT...
Well, killers have to deal with 16 perks in a game and I don’t know what you mean by “wAsTe a pErK sLoT”
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You are right. So many killers think they lost to an SWF when they lose. I got put into a game with a Twitch streamer and after the game (two of us escaped) he blamed his loss on SWF. I'm pretty sure we were all playing solo. I don't think killers go against as many SWF's as they think.
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Sorry, that's kinda how totem perks are countered.
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Exactly, devs can make no buffs to survivors, not even solos, or majority of community attacks them. Definitely biased towards survivors lol.
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Yeah great, run Distortion which has 3 charges total, of which it takes 2 to cleanse a single totem.
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The best strategy against thrill has always been to cleanse dulls because they don't reveal you and then you can cleanse the hexes faster. Running a 5 totem build with TOTH has always been really OP on any mobile killer if they aren't SWF because they can't just magically coordinate 2 at once.
This perk is already so strong being able to keep hexes around after being cleansed, it doesn't need the ability to prevent dull totems being cleansed built in as well.
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Distortion needs a way to regain tokens. But that's not the point of this thread. It's still a counter, though.
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I can! It's called Object of Obsession and you only need to look in the direction of the killer for it to proc.
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I want solo players buffed and killers buffed to deal with the lack of uncertainty.
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These perks are strong, but they affect swf survivors just as much as solo survivors. This game surely isn't just balanced around swf.
With that said, I do think this game needs a totem counter, with Hex. Undying now more than ever, but NOED is still the main reason a totem counter would only be fair for solo survivors.
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I hope not, but if it does get nerfed, I hope they just limit how often a Hex perk can be moved to another totem to two or something like that.
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perks are decent at best, not even close to what killers can use right now
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SWF is just the excuse killers who suck use to justify their suckitude.
SWF is not all sunshine teamwork. People come and go from this game all the time, so getting consistent SWF teammates is not as easy as it sounds. Plus, SWF has it's own challenges . . . people who think they know it all telling everyone else how to play, people who don't talk or who are hard to hear, people who make risky plays to show off to their comms audience, etc.
Listening to the anti-SWF gang, you'd think every SWF was a well oiled machine. Well I'm here to tell you that SWF teams are the minority. Truly great and/or uber toxic ones are a minority within that minority.
Stop trying to nerf a part of the game (and truly a part of every game -- being able to play with your friends).
If you are failing as killer, you need to switch killers, get gud, play survivor, or go play something else. Enough already.
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I've solo'd survivor for years. I don't see how survivors these days have such trouble with it. Once you're experienced with the game and killer perks & powers you eventually learn how to deal with them. It sounds like you're just unwilling to learn.
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To be fair with object the killer can see them also if looking around.
My fear of a perk like this is that totems should be a second objective imo and one which players should want to do. By making these more risky it removes that want and makes players more likely to just do gens.
No hex perk bar devour hope is that big of a deal leaving it uncleansed in reality.
While I understand its something the community asked for with the hex moving to other dull totems and I think that part is fine and quite a fun addition. I personally dont think it needed the aura reading part as its good enough without it.
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