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All survivors running meta perks is extremely hard to beat in my opinion.
https://youtu.be/K3m4Vf3E84M Edit: Sorry for no sound but I was in a discord call while this game was going, and I don't want you guys to listen to our conversations since it was really private.
With this post I don't want to complain to the devs about balancing issues or what so ever. I just want to hear a few opinions on this.
In my opinion its almost impossible to beat a 4 man swf if they all just run meta perks. This match I of course made mistakes, but the survivors did too. I mean I didn't do really many mistakes at all, and I also played way better than them. And I can also say the survivors wouldn't have won if they didn't all run these meta perks.
They had 4x DS, 3x DH, 1x SB, 4x BT. It was almost impossible to stop them because gens just go faster than I can down them. Even if I presure the gens really well and keep killing them. I just keep losing more and more time because of mainly DH, I also ate DS even tho I didn't tunnel.
If not even one of the best nurses in the game with omega blink can win against a 4 man swf with all running meta perks. Than that kind of speaks a lot of volume, and now imagine this with someone who doesn't play nurse, or just a killer that isn't that good, even someone who plays spirit wont win even if he plays better than them.
I already mentioned this is not suppost to be a cry baby killer post where I complain about balancing. But I just want to hear a few opinions on this, what do you think of it?
Edit: I changed the name of this discussion because people didn't understand what this was about and a lot of people were just trash talking and didn't even read the post / didn't even understand what it was about.
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how are you (self proclaimed) "one of the best nurses" if I can ask?
Post edited by LowSpecGamersMatter on29 -
What makes you say that you are one of the best Nurses of the game? This is coming from one of the worst Nurses of the game, but I see you missing your second Hit (he used Dead Hard, but too late) and camping on the boat instead of going for other Survivors...
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There are not many nurse mains left, I main her for 3 years and I am one of the most experienced ones that are still playing her. My highest 4k streak was 64 games in a row, and usually I maybe lose like 5 games per week.
I also have not many people in my mind right now that would be better than me. I would say bruscles is about the same skill level as me, I would say I'm a little better than scorpionz. And yea I just cant really think of many people being much better than me as nurse.
But also why does that matter? This post was about something else, it was about what you think of survivors all running full meta perk builds. It is extremely hard to beat and if a really good nurse with omega blink even stands no chance against it than that doesn't sound really good right?
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It doesn't matter what you say, survivor mains will come up with an excuse as how you should have played better and all those meta perks wouldn't have mattered.
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Are you just trying to be straight up toxic? Yes I missed my second hit that was just an overcharge, it just looked like he would double back but instead he kept walking, and I overcharged my blink by a little so I couldn't get him. How do you want to say that I am one of the worst nurses for that one single mistake? I mean mistakes happen, even if not often. I was camping on the boat for about 20 seconds because there was a almost done gen on top of it and 2 survivors hiding to finish the gen. I stayed up there for a little because two survivors were wasting their time by just waiting for me to go. And at the same time I could instantly go for a survivor as soon as they try to unhook. Maybe now you understand the thought process of it.
I am maining her for 3 years now and got a lot of experience. I almost never lose my games, one example for that are my 64 4k's in a row for that. This post wasn't even about that, I even said that I made a few mistakes. It was about what you think of survivors running full meta perks since it is extremely hard to beat. And not for people to be toxic.
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The survivors in that match even said themselves after the game that I played way better than them. And they also kind of agreed that they wouldn't have won if they wouldn't get carried by it. Other people like @Aven_Fallen are just an perfect example of what you described. Just not understanding what this discussion is for and just leaving a toxic post. I made like 3 - 4 mistakes in that game. And these mistakes didn't even made me lose I still would've lost even if I didn't make those.
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Oh my god the best nurse worldwide 🤭
Btw don't use the word "toxic" so often.
Toxic is racism, homophobic attacks, etc.
By telling you that you missing hits, camping, is not "toxic" bud. Relax.
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Experience equates to knowledge. It doesn't always equate to the highest level of skill. I'm sorry but you're not one of the best nurses that I've seen in the game. You decided to camp the gen and boat instead of moving on to find the next survivor.
If you ran Pop instead of deerstalker, you could've kicked the gen and moved on to another chase instead of wasting time. You had two good slugs that you allowed to be picked and lost all of your pressure while wasting time on another injured survivor. Those are critical mistakes.
You also had chances to blink on top of survivors to bait out dead hard so that you can hit them with your second hit but you didn't. In addition to that, you mistimed your blinks, overblinked/underblinked.
I'm not saying you're a bad nurse at all. You played her really well. You play like a seasoned killer but there are better and I've seen better. A single survivor's mistake equates to 25% of the team. If you make a mistake, you make a mistake for 100% of your team (YOU). Killer is the harder role and you have to own up to the fact that you did not play well enough to take down that whole team.
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If you slugged i think you could have won? Im not going to watch since i can already see how that game would go but with no unbreakable you could have tried to snowball. Unless you thought they might be running that perk and tried to avoid slugging to get more hooks either way you have a valid point. Besides in a normal game you have to assume the worst and with gen rushing with meta and playing safely against the killer(besides nurse) you cant realistically win especially if you going for a normal 10+ hooks game. Against that you have to get everybody downed and hooked while no ones dead to win because unbreakable and ds will prevent you from tunneling and your definitely not going to kill someone before gens get done unless your satisfied with 1 or 2 kills.
I did a kyf with a group of r1's using coms, meta perks, rushing, and they played safe and i went demo and hag. They were only average in a chase and as demo non lasted longer than 40 second. I couldn't snowball and only got 1 kill but about 7 or 8 hooks.. As hag same situation but i got all but 1 down but 1 had unbreakable and i lost from that with 1 kill o and they all had DH. Hag suffers similarly to nurse against DH so i barely got downs after that in that game, i think i got about 4 hooks.
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If you are just gonna say some provocating ######### don't even post under this.
I didn't say that he / she was toxic because of telling me that, I said it was toxic because she just ignored exactly what I said. Wants to tell me that I'm one of the worst nurse's for overcharging one single blink.
I mean ye sure he / she can tell me which mistakes I made, but I never even claimed I did no mistakes. I said that I made mistakes same as the survivors. It just has nothing to do with the discussion.
And why do you have to make fun of me again for no reason? This could be a normal discussion but people like you just have to type some stupid things like "Oh my god the best nurse worldwide". Please if you are gonna type something just don't type something like this.
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Oh, I would never criticize your playstyle, I am not good at Nurse, not even close. And honestly, I just stopped the video at the point, because it got boring to see you camping.
But, you say that you get a lot of 4Ks, lose only 5 games a week (considering how you said that, it means that you rarely lose), but then you complain about one of the few times you actually lose a game?
Being good at the game, not even being good at the best Killer in the game should guarantee a win. This is a Multiplayer Online Game, this means both sides should have the chance to win. And if you almost ever win this shows that the Nerfs regarding Nurse were justified.
(But dont worry, my opinion will not be popular here. I guess you can just write something about Nurse being too weak in the title and write whatever you want in your Post, you will still get a lot Upvotes)
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I decided to camp on the boat for like 20 seconds for the following reason:
There were 2 survivors at the boat hiding and waiting for me to go away from the gen so they can finish it. By staying up there I was just wasting booth of these survivors time. I could've also searched for them and I usually would've done it but I could just keep an eye on the survivor and get a free down as soon as someone unhooks which I also got.
Ye pop would've been helpful on that gen. I usually only run 2 perks on nurse because in over 90% of my games I don't need mroe than 2 perks. Shadowborn and Deerstalker are just two flex perks, Shadowborn just feels good and Deerstalker to end endgames faster. It also allows me to slug more if needed because I know where everyone is.
When I could've countered DH I would've done it. About middle of the game I realized that almost all of them had DH excluding the claudette. And when I had the chance to counter DH I did. The problem is just if the survivor is not really close to you than you cant really counter it. you have to blink exactly on top of the survivor with your first blink. Even if he is only 10 meters away from you thats already enough because by me blinking exactly on top of them they can just easily doubleback and I will need my second blink to get to them. And if I get to them they will DH. In situations like at the shack I could counter it.
I never said that I am the best nurse out there, but I said I am one of the best ones. There are not many strong nurse's left and I also cant think of many better nurse's at the moment. But yes of course there are better nurse's out there, but I mean even a really strong nurse with omega blink that cant beat survivors just because of meta perks would already be enough to say that its not really balanced.
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If anything, they did a LOT of slugging.
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I mean you can criticize my playstyle, it just had nothing to do with the post and your post just felt really toxic. Because I also mentioned that I also made mistakes and you don't have to tell me that I made some, but I mean I still explained why I did these things.
I'm not complaining that I lost, I am really grateful that I had a challenging game because most of the time I win with them not even having a gen done (this is not suppost to be a flex this is just how it is). It is just if not even a extremely strong nurse with omega blink that didn't make that many mistakes has no chance against these survivors, not because they are better but because of all of them running meta perks. Than it just means that its not balanced. And I mean I don't want to say that I should win every game. But just I want people to think about it like: imagine this with a killer that isn't that good or doesn't played for long. Imagine this with a killer that isn't nurse, nurse is the only killer that can beat a really strong swf. Not even a good spirit can stop them from genrushing. And if they all are running full meta perk builds that its almost impossible to win no matter how good the killer plays. That's why I made this post.
About the nerfs, I can totally understand if people want to nerf nurse. But you also got to think of it from this way:
Nurse is by far the hardest killer in the game and also takes a while to learn. The different between nurse and spirit is that spirit maybe needs 5 games and you can just win almost every game not because you are good, but because you play spirit. Nurse is different because she just rewards players for learning a hard killer, and basically the only thing nurse does is reward skill with a strong killer.
You didn't had to write that last sentence. That's just again trash talk. Nurse is not too weak, I also never said that.
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If I just slugged all of them down I could've maybe won yes. two of them had unbreakable, I just didn't mention it in the post because they never got to use it in that match. It is just really hard to beat those survivors with all of them running meta perks, the killer will most of the time lose not because the survivors are better but because all of them are running these perks with almost no counter play to it. You completely understood what this post was about, you cant really win, maybe if you are a nurse but than the survivors must be not that good at the game.
As you also said you have to imagine this with a killer that isn't that experienced, or just someone who doesn't play nurse but instead plays something like gorgon like you did in your kyf games.
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Do you mean with "they" that I slugged a lot? I'm not sure what you said but if you mean me yes I was slugging them at some points to gain map presure of it.
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By camping the gen, you're at a stalemate with 3 survivors while allowing the fourth to progress the game by doing gens. However on your end, you are not progressing the game by hooking other survivors. I know this seems incredibly nitpicky but it is free criticism.
You said that you don't lose games very often and had you used stronger perks, you could've pulled off a few more kills with more gen slowdown. In in this case, if you played as well as these survivors and made the same amount of mistakes, you lost because you decided to use flex perks. Therefore, I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this post.
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You can't win em all, no matter how good you proclaim to be.
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Wow, get over yourself bud. You lost a game and also threw in a humble brag of going 64 games in a row with a 4k. So you clearly can beat meta perks, do you actually expect to win every game?
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you only lose 5 games a week and your crying because of one SWF seal team? sounds to me like killers are OP! i mean just imagine if a survivor only lost 5 matches in a week...............
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I mean, for the strongest Nurse around you make a hell lot of mistakes, It must be shameful compared to your wannabes who 4k at 4 gens left.
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Best Nurse in the game... lol
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They were never calling you one of the worst nurses, they were calling themselves one of the worst nurses.
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the problem is, you are just bad, but you don't want it to be true and you blame everything on the "meta perks"
this is why so many mainkiller are so hard crying, but the reality is they most are bad player...
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I'm not complaining because I lost, I'm just complaining because I would say I'm a really strong nurse and I used omega blink and the map also wasn't that bad. I did about 3 - 4 mistakes in this game and only got one kill even tho I played better than the survivors. And if the strongest killer in the game with a player who can play that killer really well and the strongest add-on cant beat survivors because of meta perks. Than they are not really balanced. And just think of it like someone who doesn't play nurse, lets say someone who play Huntress how are they suppost to have a chance to win?
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Yea thank you for reminding me, first it just looked like he just insults me for overcharging one blink in the game.
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I never said I am the best, I just said I am one of the best. That was my first lose in 2 - 3 days and a over 20 games 4k streak. You can see that I play nurse in that match really well and almost no one is denying that. This post was not even about this so if you are just gonna trashtalk don't even post this ######### please.
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- The video doesn't show the endgame scores so I can't actually tell who won or lost.
- First gen is done at 2 minutes, pretty average
- Second gen at 3:25, again pretty average
- Third gen is at 3:41. So three total gens in 220 seconds. It takes 80 seconds to do a gen solo without any buffs or toolboxes so 220 seconds for three gens is not really out of the ordinary for good players
- Fourth gen takes another three minutes. Presumably this is where the Nurse is juggling multiple opponents off gens so it takes longer. Still no kills after 6:45 seconds.
- Fifth and final gen done at 11:20, almost five minutes later. Still no kills.
I can't comment on the Nurse play one way or another, I hardly ever play her. But considering 60% of matches between equal opponents end with the Exit gates open the above seems pretty average of a game where maybe the killer didn't quite do well enough to get a kill early so the Exits got opened and three escaped. Not an indication of anything wrong with the game though.
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I haven't watched your game, and I don't know how great you are at this game.
I'll just say this:
If you are actually one of the best players of that particular killer (as in, you've reached the maximum potential of that character) and if all of your opponents are the best players of survivors doing SWF (as in, they've reached the maximum potential of playing survivors as well as maximizing communication), and you all play together over hundreds of times at your absolute best, and you average less than 2 kills per match, then yes, it means that 4-SWF is not balanced and they need to be nerfed. However, if they average less than 2 Escapes per match (again, over many, many games), then that means the killer type is too strong and needs to be nerfed.
This goes for any killer character. In order to get any balanced game, you balance at the height of its potentials, and then adjust from there.
But in your case, it's difficult to draw any conclusion from just one game.
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I never said I was the best nurse. And this post was about something else and not about how I play nurse.
Mistakes I made in this game:
Overcharged a blink. Followed a survivor instead of staying nearby my slugs. Got juked on like 2 of my blinks.
damn thats a lot of mistakes. If you are gonna trashtalk without even reading what I wrote please do it somewhere else.
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You said you wanted opinions, I gave you mine.
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With the first one you are right because I didn't think of the fourth survivor in this point. I got a free down from it at the hook but also the fourth survivor made progress with gens while I was doing nothing. I would've probably got 2 if not even 3 kills if I used gen slowdown. But I usually don't use it because I don't need it in like 90% of my games.
Where I'm trying to go with my post is. If someone cant beat these survivors not because they are playing better but because of them running meta perks. And the killer is playing the strongest killer in the game with the strongest add-on. Than most killers are not gonna be able to beat these survivors because of these perks no matter how well the killer does. How is someone who plays Huntress suppost to win this? Huntress is not even weak but WEAKER than nurse, and a huntress would stand no chance and I also couldn't do really much.
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64 streak of 4k as nurse is nothing special, sorry to burst your bubble of thinking you are on the top league. I do 50+ 4k streaks on Killer rotation without even trying really hard.
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I'm not crying because I lost, I finally had a fun game where I didn't just win. I'm just complaining because if I cant win because of them running meta perks instead of being better. How are you suppost to win with a killer that isn't nurse? How is someone suppost to win that isn't extremely good at the game? These survivors weren't bad, but they also weren't extremely good they were just average players as a 4 man swf.
I mean I can understand if someone says nurse is OP, and I wouldn't call her balanced. But there is a reason why nurse shouldn't get nerfed and is fine. She is by far the hardest killer in the game to learn and takes a lot of skill. People have to practice for her for a while to get good. the only thing nurse does is rewarding skill. Its a whole different story with spirit. But thats why killers are not OP.
Edit: I don't lose only about 5 games per week because I'm playing nurse. Other people that play nurse lose way more often. It is because I am really good with the nurse.
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Firstly, maybe lay off Aven. You said that you were one of the best Nurses in the game in your title, and also repeated it in your post. That's a very bold claim to make and you deliberately drew attention to it, so it's only natural that people would focus on that. Also, the mistakes you made are very relevant to the discussion of whether or not this game was unwinnable, which is exactly what you asked for our opinions on, so neither pointing that out nor challenging your assertion that you are one of the best Nurse players out there is "toxic". It's just addressing the content of your post the way you invited us to.
Regarding the game itself, 11.5 minutes is not a genrush. That's actually longer than the average game length. And as for meta perks, the only ones I saw in play were Dead Hard, one Borrowed Time, and that one DS that Nea hit you with, which was admittedly unfortunate, but that's hardly being victim to a full roster of meta perks.
Since only Nea used DS, the fact that the other three had it is irrelevant when it comes to analysing your loss in this game. Same goes for the other three Borrowed Times, and possibly the Sprint Burst (although it might have been used at one point and I just missed it). The Borrowed Time you should honestly have expected from a team with 3 Dead Hards and just hooked the rescuer you'd just downed instead of trying to secure both of them - part of being good at this game is anticipating what perks your opponent is likely to be using and playing around that (and that goes for both sides). You also lost pressure at certain points by camping one spot for too long - even if you know there are survivors nearby, if you can't find them right away, you need to leave the area and put some pressure elsewhere, because while you're hanging around looking for the one or two survivors you know are nearby, their friends elsewhere are doing generators uncontested. I also personally think that you slugged too much and lost pressure because of it. I could be wrong, because I have seen slugging done well and maybe things wouldn't have worked out if you hadn't done that, but in my personal opinion, it's overrated as a method of applying pressure and if you had hooked even half the people you slugged early on instead of leaving them to get picked up by their friends, you might have got more kills towards the end.
In short, my opinion is this: you didn't play far better than the survivors did, your skills were roughly on the same level from what I saw in that match, and you also made more mistakes than you seem to think. In the end, the survivors managed to pip you at the post, which could perhaps have avoided if they hadn't used Dead Hard or DS, but could also have been avoided, I think, if you had hooked them more in the early game. What this game proves is that meta perks give you an edge, which everyone already knows, and that Dead Hard is particularly brutal against Nurse. It doesn't prove that they're overpowered or impossible to beat, and, to be blunt, you would probably improve more as a player if you looked back on games like this and analysed your own mistakes more carefully rather than blaming your loss on "meta perks".
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I'm not saying you played bad, just that I don't think you're one of the best. I've seen better. Anyways, no killer is going to win 100% of the time. You made some mistakes that game and you lost. Not really a big deal.
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No I get really high win streaks as long as I don't play against people that are all running full meta perks, and if they do neither I get maps like the game where nurse is obsolutely broken or the survivors just are really bad.
I'm not saying I expect to win every game, you clearly didn't understand what this post was about. This post was about that meta perks are extremely hard to beat no matter how well the killer plays. I never complained that I lost, infact I'm happy that I finally had a fun challenging game.
It is just if one of the best nurse's in the game with omega blink cant beat survivors with meta perks, not because they are better but JUST because of meta perks. How is someone suppost to have a chance to win that isn't that good? How is someone suppost to win that plays a killer like clown or trapper? That's what this post was about.
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I had a little more than 30k points (didn't pipe and only one kill, so it was a lose for me).
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The problem is I'm not saying 4 man swf's are a problem. They are hard to beat but thats completely normal, 4 people communicating are still beatable and they should also be hard to beat.
The problem is just that these survivors were just average players that aren't that good. The only reason they won wasn't because they played better but because they just played these meta perks. And now how is someone suppost to beat this with a weak killer like clown or trapper? How is someone suppost to beat this on a bad killer map? How is someone suppost to beat this that just isn't that extremely good?
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Ye just your opinion in that post really wasn't about what this post was, I was asking what people think of how strong meta perks are. And this game was just an example to show, if a really strong nurse with omega blink cant beat average survivors in a 4 man swf all with meta perks. Not because they are better but JUST because of these perks. How is a average killer suppost to have a chance to win? Or someone on a bad killer map or just someone who plays clown or trapper? But I mean its still your opinion so yes okay, we can leave it like that.
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I just said I am a really strong nurse as an example to show of how strong these perks are, and I would even say that I am one of the best (Not THE BEST, but one of the best). I mean I don't even understand what this post is about, I was asking what people think of meta perks and their balance and used that as an example to show how strong they are. Yes you may be a really strong killer if that's what you are saying is true and that's really cool :D, but just it has nothing to do with it.
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"One of the best nurse's in the game" hahhahahah
mayby go play minecraft xD, the surviver are not good, no they are bad, but you are worse and thing you are ONE OF THE BEST NURSES haha yayaya i see it xD you are a bad nurse player, you never see a good nurse player...
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Yes thats totally fine if you think I'm not one of the best, that's just how I would consider myself of my nurse skill. Just this post wasn't about that, I just used it as an example to show how strong meta perks are because if a strong nurse with omega blink cant even win against it, even tho the survivors are just average players than it is not really fine. And you are also right with no killer is gonna win every time, but that's also just not what I said. OF COURSE I also lose games thats the most common thing in this game.
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I am also a rank 1 Nurse main who consistently 4ks. Here’s my feedback:
-Build: this is your biggest problem. Nurse’s, deerstalker, and shadowborn are doing nothing for you. Good players know not to heal too close to Nurse, and deerstalker is replaced by having an awareness of the map. You NEED gen defense, whether that’s pop, corrupt, ruin or some combination of those. There were numerous times that you could have squashed them if you hooked and attacked the gens.
-addons: I had a hard time telling, but I think you used double range. Optimal addons are 1 range and 1 charge.
you were right to stay near the boat, but you should have patrolled the nearby gens.
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You literally cried about how deadhard was overpowered on another post. You are far from the best at any killer.
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30k with one kill is basically a close win or a tie game in my book, that's just me though. Even if you go by a strict 0-1 kills is a loss and 3-4 kills is a win and 2 is a draw you can still use score as a reasonable tie breaker with 2 kills.
I guess the question, if you're trying to figure out what went wrong, might be to start by looking at why you got no kills for almost 12 minutes. Hypothetically, let's say it takes 10 seconds to find a survivor, 60 seconds to down them and 10 seconds to hook them. That's 80 seconds per hook. If you did that 9 times in 12 minutes you would have at least one guaranteed kill (because worst case you hook each survivor once the first four hooks, then you get a second hook on each of them the next four, and finally a death hook on the ninth.) Therefore even if you played badly and just chased one survivor at a time for 12 minutes and your downs weren't all that quick you'd still have a kill by at least the 12 minute mark and more likely sooner.
So somewhere along the way you must have been losing time efficiency. Maybe it took too long to find survivors to chase? Or maybe your chases were longer than you think? Or maybe you should have hooked a little more and slugged a little less? I have no idea specifically but something along those lines must be going on to have no kills in 12 minutes, especially considering Nurse is typically a faster than average chaser.
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I mean you are right with the first one people are most of the time gonna talk about that claim, but that still doesn't really excuse that they didn't really read my post and what it was about. I mean if you think I am not one of the best than that's totally fine but you just don't have to say that, its not what this post is about. I said toxic to the first one because I miss understood it, the person said "this comes from one of the worst nurse's in the game". The person meant himself and I just thought he was insulting me for no reason even tho that it wasn't about what the post is.
I never said I got genrushed. It is just that even they can finish gens and escape before the killer has a chance to kill them all, not because the survivors are good and keeping him for long but because they just keep wasting his time and stealing his deserved kills with meta perks like DH, even tho they didn't play better than the killer. BT and DS didn't do much in that game, it was mainly DH that made them win, there was one DS after waiting a long time and not tunneling. But usually in these games DS and DH are like the main perks that are making someone lose no matter how well he plays. In this game it was just only one DS luckely.
Yes you missed the point SB was used 2x in this game by the claudette. I made mistakes yes and lost presure at the beginning when I had 2x slugged. I don't even really have to argue about it you are mostly right with that cant deny it.
The survivors made mistakes same as me, I might have missed some while watching this replay of it. It is not OP but is just extremely hard to beat. And just what this is about is that even if a strong nurse with omega blink cant even get 2 kills for just making a few mistakes, and the survivors are completely getting carried by DH and other meta perks. Than how are people suppost to win that are on a bad map, ppl that just are not really experienced or just someone who plays a weaker killer? That's just what I am worried about.
And btw ty, your post was really good and not just mostly trash talk which other ppl wrote down here.
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and i guess im one of the few good billys left i still crush meta perks the only meta perks i think are unbeatable is small pp build on all survivors
plus these survivors still played in a way that meant they were beatabke if they played like a tourney squad
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Yes I made a few mistakes, and yes I used two range add-ons. I use two flex perks (Shadowborn and deerstalker) because in 99% of the games I only need two perks which are nurses and bbq. I mean if the only real way to beat 4 man swfs all running full meta perk builds is a strong nurse with optimal add-ons that is using 4 perks and makes no mistakes, than its not really balanced lets just say that xD.
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