Why do people keep saying there is no counter to Deathslinger?
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Go watch X streamers highlights. why?
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You ignore most of my points when I gave a solid reason for that remark. It showcases slingers oppressive chase strength that's why.
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And i just took down a 4 man while sitting at the hook because i couldn't be bothered. i guess i am a god now?
I don't need to watch highlights of potatoes being slaughtered.
The fact is he is slow with zero map pressure so will lose against equal opponents.
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No I never said that.
You assume this potatoes to prove your arguement that makes it weaker when you say that.
Funny enough even ussylis 5k hour survivor main cant seem to run a deathsligner properly.
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For a newer player that's a good way to think I can get around to what you said but they do need buffs like addon changes to buff useless addons like odd bulb ultra rare for nothing.
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And "properly" means?
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People just need to complain tbh.
Like survivors that tryhard will play wild and swety against their opponents. So it means perfect loops and gen time optimised.
So the "bad killers" cant keep up if they cant break a loop.
Meaning that killers will chose a killer that can break these compositions (like DS/PH/Spirit/Freddy/Huntress) because you cant just easily loop them.
Since they cant loop they arent optimised so they cry about it, even tho they often escape the game, its all the same with PH tbh.
Yet survivors that arent that good will complain cause they didnt understand yet or had the reflexes yet to Dodge them making it way harder, which i can understand.
Lets keep in mind that you cant complain about the fiewer strong 1v1 billets that you see most of the time in highranks, if you tryhard your ass off against those that want to have fun with weaker killers cause you know its going to be way easyer.
Survivors actions will get killers to react
And killers actions will get survivor to react (si by tunneling or camping it brought the meta perks)
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It means if you cant outplay a killer theough your own skill die to a design flaw. And in your case I dont know how a group of good survivors let that happen but alright.
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Every killer has to charge their power before using it with an exception to Deathslinger, Clown, and Legion.
- Clown's deals no damage and has a slow travel speed.
- Legion only gains a speed boost, no damage or range advantage.
- Deathslinger gets a ranged, fast traveling, and disabling projectile.
Huntress, Executioner, Demogorgon, etc all have a small charge up before being able to use their power. This telegraph's the ability, giving skilled players a chance to react. Deathslinger should be no different. You give any of the other killers an instant ability and you'd complain too. Just make it take 1 second to actually pull the gun up and aim before you can fire and it would be fine.
Both of your examples the Deathslinger easily telegraph's his shots and these shots are from a decent range. 9/10 of my Deathslinger matches are quick shots that have less than .25s of reaction time and almost zero chance to counter-play. If you put a Huntress or Executioner in the exact same situations there is a small window that I can use to to try and react to the ability because their intentions are telegraphed, and Ithis allows the survivor to possibly avoid the ability. In Deathslinger's current state you simply can't avoid it. The only thing in your favor is the fact that Deathslinger's Projectile has a smaller hotbox, making it harder for Deathslinger to land accurate shots. But again, this simply puts it all on the killer. The survivor still has zero impact on wether the shot hits or not as a good Deathslinger doesn't miss.
Also note Deathslinger has a very small terror radius, meaning he can close that distance even easier in the right situation. Although I think this is fairly balanced due to his limited range.
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And what is this skill?
Knowledge of where to stand at a loop to see every approach angle isn't skill so...?
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That is angle and positioning which is technically skill. Also you make it sound way easier than it is even though most survivors fail at doing so.
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The problem with slinger is that the outcome of the chase is determined, in large part, by their skill, and effectively doesn't factor in that of the survivor. There are worse offenders in this regard, like Huntress, but there's just so many slingers on my servers. It ain't a hoot.
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Its because Deathslinger has possible outplay potential at loops and during transition of tilesets. If you give ussylis a classic map such as Bloodlodge and you pick a ordinary M1 killer such as Myers and you ask him to loop Myers for as long as possible with the rule that if Myers gets bloodlust 1, he has to break the pallet, He can probably loop Myers for 3-5 minutes, In fact every good survivor can. Myers and every M1 killer can be beaten in a single chase. The only reason it does not happen is human error and that is ok because the game does not require survivor to win in a single chase.
The idea that survivors have the capacity to 1vs1 the killer and the expectancy to do so is already an extreme entitlement in itself. Its because survivors are conditioned to face weak killers in a chase so when a killer has strong/decent chase capacity, its like a shock. The reason why nobody offers to go in custom game to "show deathslinger counter-play" is because its stupid. Suppose someone does accept and they loop you for 60 seconds, that in itself is counter-play. If you include fact that the killer needs to search for the survivor to enter a chase and extra require to put a survivor on a hook, that is like 3 gens right there. Survivors are not meant to go from 0 to 5 gens instantly, Killers don't go from 0 to 12 hooks instantly either. they have to work for it. small chase after small chase, little by little, gens gets done. same thing for hooks, little by little, survivors die.
The clip itself shows counter-play. Deathslinger weapon isn't hitscan, past 10-18 meters, you to have lead your shots and predict survivors movement to slide into them. The counter-play is hard but its definitely there. There's also this idea that killers that have strong 1vs1 are "Unhealthy". Arguably speaking the only tool that a killer really needs to win is strong 1vs1 and a tool to contest loops. Map mobility, Stealth, Aura-reading, Instant down are very indirect forms to power up the killer and frankly speaking they aren't very useful by themselves. I am not saying that its impossible win with these tools but they certainly aren't very direct or obvious to win with and they often have large exploitable pitfalls and shortcomings which is why they're often very low on killer tier-lists.
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So you are implying that you want to beat killer no matter how good he plays? The better the killer player is, the better you should be to overcome him.
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The clip itself just showed him missing as slinger. I'm gonna address a few things like how we are "entitled" and why slinger is unhealthy.
For starters it's not being entitled when you play a game that is pvp and expect to have a fair chance at outplaying your opponent. I also want to comment on how you think looping for a long time equal counterplay. I looped a stridor spirit but that's because I was just guessing correctly. I made multiple good guesses i never really outplayed anything.
If survivors also are conditioned to weak chase killers (huntress,billy,oni,nurse) those are very strong killers why arent they complained about?
One more thing if a killer doesnt give survivors an equal opportunity for survivors to counterplay them it's not healthy you clearly dont look at things objectively or at least on the survivors end.
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@azame Disagree. Iri head gets complained about on Huntress all the time even though the add-on only jacks up Huntress reward for hitting hatchets which makes her that much more punishing on top of solid chase mechanic. Nurse is very special and not worth talking about but she has received changes many times, more so than any other killer. Oni has received changes from PTB and some of them are pretty weird like why his massive club breaks pallets slower than chainsaws or why he gets punished for confirming hits/downs on power gauge but yeah there is that. Billy just got changed recently and he was one of the ionic killers that certain survivors main did not enjoy going against constant reliable instant down and killer main defend it by saying that instant downs are fair(balanced) by the fact it requires survivor to make mistake/bad read.
You know what killers survivors never complain about? Demo, Why? Garbage. A good telltale to know if a killer is in a good spot is by how much friction they get. In some sense, a bit of complain either side is somewhat healthy even though its a bit strange. In some sense, killers need a level of unfairness to them and its matter of what level unfairness is tolerated/accepted. I would say unfairness is a matter of perception. Its what politician do, they manipulate perception. Guessing is outplaying the killer and its highest form of skill expression that DBD has. Its what makes the game so popular and it keeps people playing. It is what makes the game tick.
In term of fair guesses, that part is really interesting because DBD throws this curveball into the mix where a lot of stuff in DBD has lack of gradation and it contains a lot of 1 and 0's. True or false if you will. Its very observable within various tile sets and pallets with various strengths. I think that is big reason why a lot of the game has strong looping foundation because it allows any type of killer to be invented and the disbalances within guesses is supposedly offset by the killer's power. Its little bit like "I cheese you, you cheese me" and stuff ends up equal. Its strange but the formula works so I can't argue with a formula that works.
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Most of what you said is pretty accurate but I will say on the huntress bit I wasnt talking about addons just base.
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There is a difference between a fair chase and literally having zero chance to do anything at all to defend yourself.
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for the same reason people say PH has no counterplay, they can fake out using the power to make you lose distance and m1 you , or react to you not losing distance (aka not trying to dodge) and punish you for it
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I think it just isnt fun to play against him becouse being chased is such a big part of the game, and he just completely counters that
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You haven't played against old legion if you believe " literally having zero chance to do anything at all to defend yourself." can be said about deathslinger.
Read any topic about deathslinger and I assure you, you will find at least one person listing most counterplay to that killer.
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The same counterplay to old legion applies to Deathslinger - stealth, rush gens and hope, because there's nothing you can do in a chase. Like it or not, just like Nurse, you cannot defend yourself against a decent Slinger.
And yes, I see plenty of people giving false counterplay that never works against even me, and I'm barely an acceptable Slinger. So..... Yeah.
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I think it's just cuz he's so good in chase if you're going up against a good death slinger. His power can just end chases in seconds if done right. And of your a God tier death slinger your basically never gonna loose a chase. But he has rubbish map pressure. Gens fly against him especially if survivors with half a brain spread out among gens. Therefore he isn't totally op. Survivors find not fun when they can't gain distance on a killer and beat the killer in chases. It's hard tho cuz without chase potential killers are just average or below which isn't good enough. Unless somthing big changes I don't see that changing anytime seen.
..
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If the projectile can be dodged, then it's counterable. Keeping in dense, object-laiden areas and weaving also counters his skill, and a missed shot results in slowdown as he reloads.
Deathslinger is 100% counterable. As with any killer, eventually if chased for long enough, the odds are that the Killer will get you. The aim is to lose a killer, rather than take them for a jolly.
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Prethrow pallets against slinger, he can't deal with pallets that are down
I know it hurts the " wasted pallet" mentality but he is forced to break it
And when i mean prethrow i mean throw them down before he even shows up
A standing pallet means you have to travel that split second longer through a funnel where you are easy to shoot
A downed pallet is complete safety if you get the prompt
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This is pretty much my stance. As a survivor I want the skills I've built up in my time playing to at least factor into a chase in a small way, just like they do when I'm killer, although obviously in a less effective way. Even if its just a few extra seconds on the run before going down. Problem is that unless I have an exhaustion perk against Deathslinger, especially if its a free first hit stealth slinger, that is entirely determined by if the Deathslinger has even played an FPS before or not.
At least with Huntress I know shes charging a hatchet so I can attempt to dodge it. Wish Deathslinger he can fire with a pre-aim literally 1 frame after raising his gun. No human can react to that. If you did it was random luck.
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Oh god this stance again. No. Having a strong 1v1 is not 'unhealthy for the game'. Billy, Nurse, Huntress, Oni, Freddy, Hag, even Demo on the majority of maps. All killers with extremely strong 1V1 gameplay. Difference? A survivor with enough experience can play around TO A DEGREE <(important part) they can't counter the entire power through just normal gameplay (or perks and items, hopefully) but they have a chance to show their skills and knowledge in return and potentially outplay the killer if the killer slips up.
Problem with newer killers sans Oni and potentially Blight (we'll see how Live goes) is that they're removing potential counterplay without replacing it with anything new. Giving the survivors extremely low chances if any, to counterplay them at all. This leads to short chases where the survivor may as well run in a straight line for all the good it can do.
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Sucks for you if you can't drop pallets earlier and not run in the open where there is nothing you can cover behind from his shots
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😧 I've had 3 days of post work 4 hour sessions where it was 95% bad/frustrating/not enjoyable games and it's started to feel like the game is a complete waste of time and it turns you into a toxic "I'm smarter than you" butthead...this thread makes it seem like talking about the game is a waste of time too and reiterates the toxic smartassery....thanks heaps OP 😩
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You're exaggerating if you actually compare Deathslinger to Nurse or old Legion in terms of counterplay.
Nurse ignores pallets, windows, distance, structures - basically everything in the game.
Old Legion could miss a million hits with no penalty and still down you in one Frenzy hit by looking at the ground while following you.
Deathslinger can't down you using his power if you:
- drop a pallet
- break line of sight
- are out of gun range
- manage to position yourself behind objects not allowing him to reel you in
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i hope he ends the chase in seconds, because minutes = GGEZ game over.
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You realise that most maps spawn with massive deadzones quite often, right?
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Dropping pallets early isn't counterplay, not really - many of them he can still get you at, and the rest he can get you before you reach the next loop, because at most he will have a low-mid range shot. Sure, on some maps the tiles are ridiculously close together, but that isn't the average.
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Deathslinger:
- Zones you, breaks the pallet and shoots you, because he's not an m1 killer and rarely has to deal with chained tiles.
- Walks up to you beause breaking LoS isn't counterplay for a moving killer and isn't really applicable in most situations. He's not Huntress, he's Deathslinger. He's always at max speed.
- Isn't going to bother with you if you are out of gun range unless you take off super early, which is the "counterplay" to literally every killer, and even then can simply walk after you with little fear because you cannot waste a lot of time looping him.
- Actually wants you to waste your time positioning yourself in a bad area so he can walk up and hit you without taking a shot.
As someone who mains Slinger, here's a tip: Hide. That is the miraculous counterplay you are looking for. Everything else is either so situational as to be worthless, or actually worthless. Doing any or all of those things results in you getting hit much faster than if he was an m1 killer, and he's 110. That's not really counterplay. Counterplay implies you're extending your life by more than a few seconds.
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killers can be viable and fun almost like billy huntress nurse oni demo,
think about the other side
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it aint 2016 survivors are not broken the majority of swfs are beatable if you make the right choices not every survivor is gonna be like ochido survivors want interactive chases while still feeling a sense of actually outplaying the killer and if the killer outplays them they feel like the killer used skill and experience to down them,
they dont want a survivor buff they want changes to how some killers work that make them more interactive in chases because interactive chases are the only thing keeping survivors playing
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Finally someone who knows whats going on. All you have to do is to hope and pray the Deathslinger is as bad as the one shown in the video and misses his shot. So easy! 200 IQ suggestion ty.
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Yeah nice of you to assume he was bad. I already said he wasn’t.
1) I never said “hope and pray”.
2) I guess according to you, we should just assume every killer who doesn’t land a hit is just bad at the game. There aren’t any real survivors who can make a killer miss. Gotcha.
My guess is you just don’t like juking killers who don’t M1. Or you can t hide behind a bush with.
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It does not really matter if he or she is bad and how we define it.
The point is that your counterplay you showed us was him missing the shot. I repeat HIM MISSING THE SHOT. Not you dodging.
On top of that, he was not even forced to shoot you. He would have gained distance so quickly by just faking it that he would have m1d you no matter what.
There was no reaction to that shot, you just randomly moved to the right, thats it. It was luck, nothing more, nothing less.
EDIT: And thats why survivors HATE Deathslinger so much. Nobody wants to play verus a killer where your best counter is luck.
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So was he "missing the shot" here too?
Where I literally and purposely stood still and quickly moved away to show the friend that I was playing with how you dodge his shots? I guess now you're gonna tell me the game bugged because that's the only explanation that makes sense, when I knew what I was doing because he had PREVIOUSLY shot me from that same distance.
The clips I showed was where YES he missed because I mind-gamed him into thinking I wasn't going to move. In the first clip he even fakes it once and then actually shoots in that same direction he was aiming which I knew he would and that's why I moved in the reaction time that I did.
You are literally explaining how it didn't go down as if you were the one playing Zarina. I was there, I was the one looking behind I was the one looking for a queue of his harpoon animation, not you. He wouldn't have M1'd because he didn't have enough distance, hence why he went for the shot. I had already made him think I stayed at the previous loop when in fact I had left, therefore giving me enough distance.
I never claimed that he is counterable 100% of the time. Why should he? As I said before, my guess is you just don't like killers who can keep you on your toes.
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Problem is he has to miss.
I love playing Deathslinger because, well, gun. But I consistently land my shots so I can feel how overpowered I am while playing him. He is so much less challenging than playing Huntress, it almost feels like playing two different games. I've also been on the other side, playing against a competent deathslinger. There really is little to no counterplay. He needs nerfed.
i.e. in the first image you post the Deathslinger could have very easily gotten you. He could have just continued faking shots so you'd have to continue dodging, letting him catch up, or he could have just taken an extra half-second to aim and hit you. Instead, he did what only bad slingers do: let his knee-jerk reflexes take the wheel. Everyone 1v1 shouldn't depend entirely on whether or not the killer makes a mistake and absolutely nothing else, which is the case with Deathslinger.
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What has this to do with missing or not? He tries to give a headshot for whatever reason, the survivor turns away. Is it now confirmed that the head in DbD has a small hitbox? Or that it is bugged? Try a bodyshot next time i guess. All you could possible prove with that example is that it is hard to hit a shot with deathslinger, which is irrelevant. Its not about how hard it is to play Deathslinger, but about his counterplay. He might be indeed a hard killer to master, but thats irrelevant.
I dont know why you think you mindgame him, he simply missed the shot. He does not need to read your patterns and adapt to it, thats the thing with deathslinger. He can simply react to what you do, but you as survivor, can not. In this example you talk about mindgame but it was just a mistake he did. Are we assuming now that mistakes are counterplay? His fault was that he followed some patterns you had before. Again, his mistake, totally irrelevant for "counterplay"
100% counterable? I say he is 0% counterable in a chase. Imagine a Deathslinger AI with Aimbot, guess how often he would miss? 0 times. All your mindgames you think off are only relying on his mistakes, not your plays.
Last but not least, Deathslinger is not hard to beat eventually. Spread out, do gens, lead the game as quickly as possible. Another reason many hate him so much.
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What counterplay do you want then? Being able to do one simple thing and be invincible to any tricks the killer can do? Dropping pallets earlier, keeping distance, hiding behind obstacles and moving unpredictably if you fail to do other things is a pretty good counterplay, especially if you remember that this killer relies only on fast chases to win and if you drag at least one chase long enough he'll either abandon you or will lose the game.
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Literally aiming at my body, but it's not a bodyshot. Gotcha.
I guess you are now going to say that when the shot actually connects with the survivor's body he doesn't miss, right? Because it "connected". What game are you playing? Seriously.
So when a Huntress misses do you also just not think that the survivor dodged it? That they just got lucky because the Huntress missed? LOL
You did say something worth answering to, and that is that he IS hard to master. Why is that irrelevant? A killer who has limited counterplay because he is literally not like more than half the roster when it comes to counterplay, that makes it irrelevant? In what way? It is relevant when you consider that he is walking with one shot at all times and doesn't have as many as Huntress or even someone like Pyramid Head. His reload takes 2.75 seconds to reload, it's not like he can use his power 100% of the time. His reload alone buys you time to find LoS blockers.
"Last but not least, Deathslinger is not hard to beat eventually. Spread out, do gens, lead the game as quickly as possible. Another reason many hate him so much."
What does this even mean? So are you saying he is easy to beat but just hate him anyway? 🤣
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Bingo!
He did shot out of a knee-jerk reaction, but that's what I wanted. If you think about it that was a guess on his end. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts even the streamer said "Wow, nice dodge there" , because he knew there was no way it was going to miss. I didn't give him indication prior by turning back and forth. I made him think I was staying in that path. Like, I am not saying it works ALL the time, but it works.
"Everyone 1v1 shouldn't depend entirely on whether or not the killer makes a mistake and absolutely nothing else, which is the case with Deathslinger."
Listen. I am a survivor main. Even I can admit that more than one time, killers do depend on survivor's mistakes. Sometimes depending on how well-combined their perks are, it is nearly impossible to cut a chase by even half (depending on the set up). I am saying with any killer. I could care less what survivors bring when I play killer, but I adapt to that situation. There is no reason why survivors shouldn't when it comes to killer powers.
I am surprised to hear that as someone who sounds like they play killer, can't grasp that.
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Feels like this is rigged but whatever.
The problem with Deathslinger is the ones who can quickscope you without reaction time, then fake their shots so you try to juke nothing and zone you out to get an M1.
To add to that, he has a small terror radius which sounds when you're already in range to get screwed up by him.
He's not an unfun killer by all means, he sometimes just feels like you're done for, regardless of what your choice is in a chase.
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Huntress leaves you with a lot of counterplay. She has a windeup time, ergo you can react. Cant do that to a deathslinger. Almost no windup, quickscope, no reaction to that. Like you did in the video, you did a move and hoped it would work. If it would not have worked, we would now see a different video where you got lucky.
Then she is slowed when aiming and therefore loosing distance. Slinger is gaining distance because he can fake his ability and forced the survivor to do random moves.
Still Huntress is by many considered stronger because she is not just a braindead 1v1killer but can put pressure on multible people. But funny that nobody complains about her, even tho she might be stronger.
I really dont want to discuss with you anymore, you only see what you want to see which became clear with your last posting. I just leave you with that video timestamps. Always fun to watch these. Any they explain the problem without even words.
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So does Deathslinger. Look behind you.
He has a 0.5 s firing time, plus it takes him 1.5s to actually aim, so that's a total of 1.10s for you to react or do something.
Deathslinger is also slowed down to 75% of his default movement speed.
I actually don't only see what I want to see. Can't say the same for you though.
The fact that you didn't even know that Deathslinger was slowed down while aiming baffles me as to why you would even bring it up as comparison. When anyone who actually understands his power KNOWS this.
Thanks for your time. :)
PS. In that first clip she was already out, she made the choice to stay. I did the same thing in the gif I just posted 3 posts ago, only I dodged. :)
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You can quickscope with Deathslinger. You can fake your ability. Thats it. File closed.
And dont tell me anything that i dont know this and that, its extremly unikely you know something about this game i dont ;)
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