A Hypothetical Anti-Tunnel Perk
First off I'm a Survivor main with 2000+ hours, who's played probably about twice as much survivor as killer, so I'm not just some grumpy killer main who wants to nerf DS. Honestly I don't really care about the perk at all. Everyone knows DS isn't JUST an anti-tunnel perk. Good survivors abuse it, and use it very aggressively, or a killer will get hit by a 59 second DS after hooking 2 other people. It's the strongest perk in the game for a reason. It can just a murder a Killers pressure. The Devs have made it clear the perk was never meant to be just an anti-tunnel perk, so this is just a hypothetical nerf. I've suggested it to friends, and they all liked it, so I wanted to see how other people in the rest of the community liked it.
My idea is that after getting off the hook the perk activates and you get a 15 second timer. However while in chase or while being slugged on the ground the timer gets 2/3/4 times slower. So if the killer is actually tunneling the timer can last up to a minute like it does now. The only way I can see a killer exploiting this is that Wraith, and Pig can go into stealth (cloak and crouch) and wait out the timer, like BT. The thing is...they have to wait the 15 seconds, and while in stealth they can't hit you anyways. That's plenty of time to reach a pallet. And if they hit you early they have to wait longer (plus stealth killers aren't very strong anyways, they're all sitting in mid or low tier). Survivors could still be aggressive, but it would limit it a lot, and it would definitely eliminate getting hit by the 59 second DS, unless you actually did tunnel them. Numbers could be tweaked, just wanted to see how people liked the general idea.
Comments
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In other words, make it a hundred times easier to do something that is already easy, effective and powerful. Your version doesn't make it anti tunnel, it just makes it easier for The Killer to circumvent and tunnel. This was designed exclusively from the perspective of the killer with no regard to the issue from the Survivor side. Terrible idea but I'm sure Killers will love it.
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I like this change in a vacuum, but the the truth is that it’s far too easy to “chase” someone without a chase triggering. 15 seconds isn’t very long, and a killer can easily block line of sight or moonwalk to prevent a chase from triggering until the timer is done. Look at how people get Play With Your Food stacks by constantly “ending” and restarting chases.
If you increased the timer you’d just end up with current DS so I don’t know what you could really change to make this suggestion work.
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Perhaps it could be changed to slow the timer while in a chase OR a certain distance from the killer (possibly terror radius). That would fix a lot of the issues with this change
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@Nicholas Thanks for absolutely nothing helpful. I listed the only way I could think of where it would be countered, tell me how it's bad.
@NivlacACE Yeah I thought of that too. Honestly if the killer is moonwalking to end chase, it reaches that other point I made about Wraith and Pig going in stealth. It makes it so they aren't really focusing on them, and gives them a chance to reach a pallet. But I do agree sometimes you just can't enter chase so making it so you have to be a certain distance might be better (like 8-12m). Like I said the values could be changed slightly, like maybe 20 seconds, and then change the multiplier so it's about the same. Appreciate the feedback.
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Should be 30 seconds and goes down 2x faster on objectives. It stops while slugged, or chased.
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Your idea was nothing helpful or new. I already outlined why I think your idea is terrible, I don't also have to explain how to change it to make it work. It doesn't work because again it is exclusively designed to favor The Killer. You already list ways in which it can be circumvented, quite easily, thus it is ineffective at accomplishing the stated goal: to be anti-tunnel. The issue with every idea is to narrow the scope of the perk to tunneling but at the same time permit ways for to be circumvented. At least DS has some utility in certain circumstances and the incidents it works outside of tunneling is the nature of the perk. If you want to really make it anti-tunnel, it would require a fundamental change to the core itself not merely time adjustments that are designed to improve the experience for The Killer.
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 There could be problems with it being totally stopped while slugged or chased, just cause then it could last the whole time you're on the ground, which is why I went with the root that the timer goes slower. Also as mentioned earlier using the chase is kind of unreliable since sometimes you enter chase before you see the killer, or you never enter chase even though you're clearly getting chased. Although it allows for survivors to be aggressive easier the better solution is if you'e close to the killer, or slugged. I like the idea of the timer going faster while on a Gen though. Thanks.
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I agree with the chase, but the reason I say while slugged is bc killers like to slug and wait out d's. It's like, ######### you clearly tunneled me. Thats my problem with ds.
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@Nicholas Yes it favors the Killer more, because the problems I mentioned are when the killer gets DSed for not tunneling, a Survivor favored issue. And you didn't explain why it was terrible. You didn't say why it wouldn't work just that it wouldn't. I said that Wraith and Pig could circumvent it. They're mid-tier killers, and they wouldn't be able to hit you for 15 seconds. That's plenty of time to reach a loop, also remembering Pig moves slower then survivors in crouch, and Wraith has to spend 2 seconds uncloaking. Moonwalking is another issue someone else mentioned, and the solution we came to was it would be based off of being a certain distance from the killer rather then in chase, which also solves the issue with the 2 stealth killers. If you saw another issue, tell me specifically what it is so I can try to think of a solution.
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 Oh for sure, definitely. I saw that same issue, which is why if you're slugged the timer gets longer. It being stopped would be kind of busted. SWFs could just leave people on the ground for as long as they want because that person is immune on the ground, then pick them up when it's safe.
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True. I just hate being slugged for a minute bc a killer wants their tunnel.
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That is a design problem. You want to limit the perk to deal with tunneling, which is a problem Survivors deal with but you want to balance and define it based around the experience of The Killer. The Killer hit with DS was correctly struck with a perk that clearly states if you grab the Survivor within 60s of being rescued you are stunned - IF they hit the difficult Skill Check. Again your entire premise is The Killer but what about the Survivor that is indeed tunneled and it lasted more than 60s? Or The Killer slugged and waited out the timer? This is still tunneling yet the perk doesn't help. Any anti-tunnel perk needs to be built from the ground-up and would actually provide a compelling mechanism against getting tunneled. Hint: tunneling can exceed 60s, and you can be tunneled TWICE per match. Use that as a building block for your next iteration of your redesigned DS that is intended to be effective exclusively when being tunneled. Good luck.
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@Nicholas Alright I see your point now that you've stated it. First of all the skill check isn't that hard. Are we really complaining about that? It can be made easier if that's a problem. If a survivor lasted more then 60 seconds then the other survivors should've gotten a solid amount of gens done, and the survivor can use DS on the next chase. The killer made a mistake committing that long, and lost a lot of pressure already. You also mentioned slugging. Again the idea suggested addresses this. If you get slugged the timer gets longer, up to 60 seconds. If no one picks the survivor up after 60 seconds that's on your teammates for being trash, unless the killer just camped out your slug which is the same point I made earlier. The killer devoted 60 seconds to you, that's plenty of time for the other survivors to slam gens (3 should pop, maybe only 2 if the killer has pop). This also misses my whole point where I said values could be tweaked. I was mostly just seeing how people liked the idea of a short timer that gets much longer if you're in chase or slugged.
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The SC can be missed, so the point is that it isn't even a guaranteed use perk. Your other points make no material changes to anything, other than reducing the pain for The Killer and not improving the scope for the Survivor in any meaningful way. So basically The Killer can always and easily circumvent the perk that is suppose to help with tunneling but only if the tunnel meets very precise conditions. Nothing about the second tunnel. Sounds great! The idea that others may get gens done and The Killer has invested so much time chasing you isn't a remedy to getting tunneled. Tunneling doesn't cease to be tunneling if you are good at prolonging the chase. That's yet another Killer sided argument. Tunnel is an individualistic action, and allocating a perk to it should offer a remedy for that individual Survivor. Moving on, you're off the mark with your Killer approved version of DS so I see no point in further engagement. Cheers!
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@Nicholas The idea is a survivor punishes the killer for tunneling. Not that the you guarantee jump off the Killers shoulder because they tunneled you. Lets say you got downed in 5 seconds because there were no loops nearby. Now if the killer waits it out, you telling me that isn't a punishment for tunneling? Sure the survivor feels screwed over. But they got an extra minute of life, and they'll get it on their next hook as well. If you last over a minute in chase you didn't need the help of DS. But you might need it the next chase. It would probably be broken if it exceeded a minute (although like I said values could be changed. It could be a 20 second timer that gets 2/3/4 times longer when you are near the killer or slugged). Whether the killer waits out DS or eats it, it is punishing the killer for tunneling. The survivor either gets an extra chase, or the Killer waits out the remaining time, leaving 3 survivors ignored. See you later man, I appreciate hearing your opinions and thoughts. Have a good rest of your day/night.
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