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Why do people say hag is a great killer?
Only reason I ever see a hag get a 4k is cause the survivors just don't know how to work around her traps cause almost no one ever plays this killer? Did a streamer say she is good?
Comments
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She has great map traversal and control if played right.
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Okay But like...so do 4 other killers. What makes hag so great?
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Nope, she is known as an old reliable.
If you can make your web before they get into it, survivors will lose unless you don't know how to use her.
She is a territorial killer, you don't chase.
Think like a spider and flies, spiders make webs and flies fly into them.
If you slap stbfl and corrupt intervension, it's almost impossible to lose as a hag unless you don't know what you are doing.
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She has great map traversal and control if played right.
Does the fact that other killers have the same potential means she sucks?
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What 4 other killers are you referring to?
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But by that logic demi, Billy, one, spirit, nurse, Freddy, legion are all good against solo survivors im asking what makes her so great when these other killers can do her job better.
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Yes It does cause they can do her map traversal better and in less set up time.
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Except that other killers can't do her job better, she can hit multiple survivors fast just like legion but more deadly as she can down with her power, Idk if this is still a thing but traps will also tell you where they went in case that you didn't teleported.
She can camp from far away also denying BT, and if you use MYC she can be hell.
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So i could load up billy and just defend one side of the map. Any killer can play around territory it doesn't make hag any better.
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Trust me, hag can be more deadly than billy when it comes to being territorial, in fact I believe she is way stronger than billy since you can also mindgame pallets basically by just moving from side to side put trap one side go the other, with duration addons (which are not rare at all) a good loop becomes a meh loop.
Billy might have mobility but he needs to charge his chainsaw bar also to be careful with pallets, rocks, invisible walls etc.
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you can run stbfl with almost all these killers minus nurse. But your last part about camping from distances. So the only way to play her is hook defence? That again many killers can already do just slightly worse than her?
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I fear a good Hag more than most killers. She'll pretty much be everywhere at once. If you want to see a good Hag main, Elix9 @ Twitch does some damage.
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See i never really understood this. A killer can't be out for this many years then all of a sudden be called top tier. When shes only had a buff to her trap setting speed. And STILL be played less. And with how the killer roaster is I doubt it would take this long to actually see how strong she is.
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Basically yeah, her power is mostly campy, you never leave your web you stay there and will most of the time win with no problem especially when you are defending a 3 gen.
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Yeah, Billy, Oni, Nurse, Spirit (I would Add Freddy here) What do those killers have in common? They are really strong. Some more than others sure, but no one would put any of those in the bottom of a tier list.
You could probably argue Legion, Demogorgon and Wraith.
But wraiths power while it gives great mobility (with add-ons at least) works against him when it comes to downing people.
Demos requires setup, can be removed and is really easy to see once activated.
And Legions is great at injuring but comes with too many drawbacks, cooldown, stun, missing a hit, not being able to down, to be as good as the others.
So yes with great mobility comes great power and greater chance of winning.
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Ahh I see. That is a bummer :(
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see thats shat I mean for the longest time I've seen people call her a bad killer for all of a sudden rise to A tier
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I really never understood why she is underrated, but if I have to guess it's because of how she is supposed to be played.
Many hate campers, she is a really good one.
But again, I believe spirit was also underused for a long time until people realized that she was strong, don't quote me on that one though.
Edit: By don't quote me on that one I meant that I'm not sure if she was underused.
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I think its just the general community not understanding how to play her. She wasn't liked before her changes. And she certainly wasn't liked afterwards. The best proof of that is just how few people actually play her (although she is on the rise). I would guess its because many people didn't know how to play her, use her power that well or just didn't find her fun to play so the community in general didn't learn how to play her. But with certain larger content creators like Otz calling her one of the strongest (although I think he might overestimate her strength, he isn't wrong either), and explaining in other videos how he and others play her. People started to understand how to use her. Using her power in points between gens/gates/hooks or around central points on the map. I think people mainly used it around hooks, around gens and to counter looping. Not a bad idea but I mean trapper can do that better than her most of the time.
Thats just my guess tho. But it happens a lot in other games that something that has been out for a long time is called weak, useless or underpowered only for someone to suddenly start playing it in a different way. It usually happens faster, I remember Ana in Overwatch being called weak for the longest time. Then all of sudden within 6 months of her release and getting a lot of buffs to compete with other healers(and to cope with the cryouts that she was underpowered) some people realised that if they played her very different from other healers she was actually insanely strong. Even more so now that she had gotten buffs. Suddenly she was nerfed to be weaker than she was in her release state and was still very strong.
These things happen. The community isn't all knowing, neither is the devs. Sometimes a meta can change all by itself because some people start playing in a different way. Although in the case of DBD its been a bit too long I think when the devs are done with all these system/feature integrations and changes(things like, Server hit validation, mmr, crossplay, dc penalty, etc) they should start focusing on meta changes. And I know its probably different departments working on it but you can still tell where a lot of ressources are going right now.
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Because she's a pubstomper and this is a casual party game. Hence, she's strong.
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Because even if 3 gens get done, by playing right and smart Trap set up you’ll be perfectly fine and be able to pull a 4K. The hag is how killers SHOULD be. Extremely powerful as long as they’re used correctly and weakened as you lack skill
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Hag is one of only two killers in the entire game whose playstyle revolves around not giving a single shite about gens.
That should tell you how scary she is.
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You can't get around its traps...
If the witch has the right advantages she won't give you the luxury of having a flashlight in your hand... If I come across you with a flashlight, you probably won't go looking for it without constraint.
The advantages of the doctor (sorry I don't know the English name) Bubba, Billy = anti flashlight, anti equipment too
You'll probably need a lot of flashlights with this killer, and it's not unlimited... Break my trap ? Yes but i can see it if i look..
The only way to avoid her traps when she has the right advantages is to crouch (with Urban escape it's good), but there's a risk that she'll come back to the neighborhood. Imagine the time you waste looking for your flashlight (if you find it). If you knew how many united teams I've sacrificed because of flashlights... it's even the only way I've found to win against them.
With this kind of team you have to make it look like the flashlights are going to do something, when in fact they're just bait, a hope...
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If your woundering it was OTZ that put her into S tier in his rankings for the streamer who said she was S tier(Which even by most S tier qualifications she fails to reach.).
She is an overall good killer but not a S tier killer as S tier killers shouldn't be able to have their power destroyed by survivors along with basic communication sealing her fate to B/B+ tier(Above average but too exploitable for A or S tier despite their immense power).
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A few streamers and long time killers mains have caught onto it for sure - especially the naysayers and people who used to put Hag at the bottom tiers with old Freddy who have ACTUALLY given her a try recently have found her to be extremely strong. There are a few reasons for this:
1) She used to be overshadowed by Omega Blink Nurse (Back when triple blinking distance also increased your blink traversal speed due to a bug - and less stun time on missed blink attacks) and Insta-saw Hillbilly (With old Green Carb Tuning Guide allowing you to basically down healthy survivors in many loops almost completely negating Dead Hard and forcing the meta slightly towards Vault Builds to deal with the prevalence of Billies at high ranks). Both these are now gone so the next tier down is starting to shine a lot more, Which are your Infectious Fright Onis, Stridor Spirits and Yes, you guessed it... Hags.
2) The general QoL increases to killer made over the years have also helped M1 killers a lot especially with removing some infinites and basically narrowing a lot of choice spots for Hag to put camera breaking traps compared to before - loops are less likely to chain like they used to meaning playing her with zoning in mind at each tileset basically guarantees her hits if you have good spatial awareness. Another QoL change that helped survivors (bringing tilesets closer together) which hurt every other killer has actually inversely helped Hag in terms of using less traps to break more areas of the map considering her teleport range couldn't handle THE GIANT maps (they still happen but it's not as prevalent and can be worked around).
3) The meta developed in terms of killers figuring out how to waste more survivors time more and the Hag is great at creating pressure during these moments that other killers don't really have. The main topic here is slugging then using that time to lay traps to draw more people into your web. Unbreakable on it's own is strong vs this but doesn't invalidate your traps that you're building up as you pressure and move about the map - unlike other killers repeatedly giving up chases to keep inflicting hits, force healing and recovery is extremely viable and powerful on hag just because the nature of traps. Instant teleporting, hitting then replacing the trap, then continuing on is a very common gameplay loop. You'll rack up hooks whenever you catch hurt people out of position or trying to heal, then there's that trapper bonus of just getting free downs with unexpected traps ontop of that.
4) Like you said it's rarely played and people don't know how to counter her. Urban invasion is honestly an out of favor perk atm while strong against her while Flashlights ARE strong but not unmanagable if you are aware survivors brought them. Even experience SWFs rarely know to dedicate their best looper to PRESSURING the Hag by setting off traps whenever they can through gambling or just being keenly aware when a hag is going to be UNWILLING to give up her chase to just get a free hit on you because she's about to get a hit or down. This is in reverse to the norm where it's actually on the survivors to pressure strong tilesets or lose the game against good hags (It's ironic that survivors can be told the same thing they always chime to killers). There is counterplay to her but it really isn't as easy as "Lulz just crouch and bring a flashie"
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a good hag player is as scary to go against as good nurse player
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She is extremely good against dumb survivors and, lo and behold, we don't really have a shortage of those. If a hag gets into a last gen situation all you have to do to beat her is everyone run in, start on gens, when she hits you run out, heal, rinse repeat until the gens are completed. That's literally it and there's nothing she can do about it. She chases someone, she loses. She carries on hitting and placing traps, the gen eventually gets done and it's an automatic loss because she's a very cool killer design that isn't flawed in the slightest :)
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Because if you learn to play her, you can easily 4K against 99% of survivors. People say she’s weak against SWF and/or flashlights but this is really not my experience at all. Hag is a powerhouse against even really sweaty teams. People with experience know how to counter her but even one weak link can crumble the team.
She has strong anti-loop (by not chasing directly), strong map control, she can slug like a champ and playing injured against her is extremely risky. She’s great at snowballing. Luckily, a lot of people don’t find her fun to play so she’s rare to face.
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It boils down to how many seconds on average it takes a killer to get a hit over the course of the game. The faster a killer can get hits the faster they get downs. Hag is one of the only killers that gets hits with pretty much no chase period. She spends extra time in the beginning setting up a web of traps, gens outside that web start to go, but then once those are done the survivors are forced to enter her territory and she gets hits the moment they start triggering the traps. Smart Hags put the traps in chokepoints that survivors will run through when chased off gens as opposed to right next to gens, so crouching near the gen doesn’t avoid the trap, and will have traps that are in a close enough region of the map such that if you get hit by one trap you have a decent chance to sprint toward another trap and get a second hit a few seconds later. Since none of the hits require her actually chasing survivors for more than a few seconds she is extremely time efficient once the traps start triggering.
Her main weakness is against a full swf using a flashlight to sneak around near Hag and disable her traps. You can potentially deal with that by, for example, setting up a couple of traps and then forcing the player following you to set them off to down them, but either way being “weak against a full swf team that specifically coordinates against you” isn’t exactly a problem unique to Hag.
Personally I think she is among the top five killers with the top three being Spirit, Nurse and Freddy and her and Billy being four and five. Most streamers seem to put her fairly high as well. (And Michi is the best Hag main streamer I’ve watched, the things and foreplanning he can do with traps are pretty wild. If you ever want an insight into how an expert Hag player treats traps check out his Hag guide, he does some pretty neat tricks with traps like using the forced camera turn to steer runners into the wrong sides of loops.)
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Actually learned a lot when watching Michi, one of the greatest EU Hag bar none - agree with all these points mentioned by dugman
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She's the strongest camper outside of a face camping Bubba and there's still no true hard counter to camping in this game. At best, you're just going to end up taking the person's spot on hook.
She causes all players to walk instead of running in most games.
Did I mention camping? She can patrol halfway across a map and stop gen progress and still teleport back to a hook or something else she is guarding without even actually being there. She can literally apply pressure in multiple places across a map.
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Creating a huge snowball as soon as she downs 1 survivor
Making it impossible to touch multiple gens as you are in her web
Good trap placement makes it almost impossible to run away from her
She gets from point A to B faster then any other thanks to her trap
She strongly punishes mistakes with her traps
You should take a look at how Otzdarva plays her, shes incredibly strong as soon as she set up her web.
Beside not knowing if/where is safe against a killer makes it more scary then any other, since at anymoment she might jump out of a trap
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It is not the same map traversal at all unless you add in specific perks
When Hag teleports, she knows at least a survivor is there, she knows where they went, and if she is close enough when the trap triggers she gets a hit just because of that
Yes, you need to set up your traps unlike other killers, but she has an undeniable strong teleport ability which is different from the one of other killers
Freddy (and Demo) can teleport to gens (portals for Demo), but it is not an instant teleport, and survivor can get a lot of distance before the killer is even there
Nurse can teleport nearly istantly, but she has to guess where a survivor is unless she has it in her FOV, and if she misses she's fatigued
Spirit and Billy simply have fast map traversal, but they can only patrol gens (even tho they do it fast) if they have no idea where survivors are, and is not an instant teleport like Hag's
She's strong, you can say she's not the strongest killer in DBD, and I could agree with you, but you can't say she's not a great killer
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4 other killers also being great does not mean The Hag isn't great too.
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While other Killers can traverse the map better than her she can traverse the map when it counts, when people steps on a trap. Her skill acts as map traversal and detection at the same time, thats why is weaker than Hillbilly or Nurse map traversals, you must place traps in not so obvious places for her to work, if you put them where everyone expects them they will crouch over them.
Also she has very small and has 24 meter TR radius, with M&A its only 16, Hag is very stealth when approaching unsuspecting Survivors.
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because in good hands she is a very good killer especially if she hooks you in bassement, (then is gg for you or should be) but since most people dont have a clue about how ot play her people think she is bad.
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Ahh I see. So what ive gathered from reading all that is shes quite a high skill cap killer. Alright when you put her that way she's sounds way way better than "shes good at camping hooks from far away" i'll look at her a little differenty then :)
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I Just remember for the longest time people used to call her bad then all of a sudden she seems to have risen of the ashes and become a strong killer in the eyes of the community . Find it strange to have changed after all these years
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Because most the population on average isn't very good and she's a noob stomper. More so than most other killers. She's a killer that's significantly stronger than most if the survivors don't know what they're doing.
She's countered quite easily by good survivors.
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I see a lot of people giving good and bad answers but there’s one thing they’ve all missed:
Even a good SWF can be torn apart by a good Hag.
The issue isn’t necessarily that they can communicate and tell each other where your traps are. The issue is that too many Hags play into that and get absolutely wrecked.
Hag punishes bad decisions, but because of her prep she has a lot of room to make up for her own.
I play against quite a few SWFs on comms -I take rematches from them if we get along in end game chat and add them- and SWFs can only give each other information they have.
If you’re feeding them wrong information by placing fake traps or just cutting line of sight between you and one of them, it just takes one person to start making mistakes.
If you punish those mistakes appropriately and harshly their strategy starts falling apart just like it does for any match.
Given that SWFs on comms are friends who’ve worked together many times it’s much easier said than done.
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There is no way to get around its traps (with the right perks and the right strategy), sauf Urban evasion.
I can assure you that tight teams, like loops, DS, red rank, and others are no longer a problem for me, since I discovered how to play with it! But it also requires patience and good timing!
There are some perks that make it very strong, but without the strategy it's a bit like having a gun and not knowing how it works.
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I agree... Gen perks are not necessary besides corrupt intervention.
That proves her strenght
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Won't work against a good hag. The strategy fails on the "run out" part. A good Hag will predict the path you use to run out with and trap it in advance. So she hits you and you run away, hitting her trap and getting downed.
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instant teleport with no cooldown is what makes her so great. if she wasnt hard countered by flashlights and hooking rushes she would be s tier
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Honestly, I think it heavily depends on the player. Like, sure, Hag has the potential to be one of the best Killers in the game, but only if you know how to play her (and as others here said, Survivors aren't giving each other the locations of your traps.) I honestly suck at Hag and never got a single kill as her. Same for Nurse and Billy. On the other hand, I consistently do pretty well with Trapper, Wraith and Legion, Killers I've seen a lot of people call complete trash on every rank. While I do think some Killers need to be adjusted or buffed, I also think once in a while a player will click with a Killer and manage to make them work well enough.
Of course, I'm a rank 17 and a casual player at best, so feel free to take this all with a grain of salt. Just sharing my two cents.
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Hag makes every loop unsafe with her traps, that's why she is so strong. She is also able to be almost everywhere on the map at the same time which makes her one of the most strongest snowball potential killers in the game. (I had games where I downed 3 people in under 10 seconds).
She also profits from gens being done because survivors are being forced deeper into her web.
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It is so hard to give accurate information of traps to each other.
People really under estimate how important communication skills are which most people just don’t have.
Hence the vast majority of relationship problems.
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As a Hag main I can tell you there are many ways to get around Hag traps with no perks, flashlights, or crouching.
You have to play smart and be patient.
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Yeah, I agree. I've played against several SWF groups who clearly could not communicate (when they can, which is often noticeable, I normally end up losing miserably as I'm a decent enough Killer at best.) Still, there's a disadvantage to a Hag who goes up against a SWF group who CAN communicate.
(Honestly, I still think the best way to play this game is with friends. As in, all of you, including the Killer, know each other and are communicating. It's so much more fun that way. But I digress.)
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At the beginning she wasn't so great, because she had too many drawback, starting from the trap placing time which was way too long
They reduced the time it takes to place your traps, and removed the drawbacks from her addons (things like Dragonfly wings used to increase your teleportation range but increased the setting time of the traps as well) and it was all she needed to show her true potential
Probably it took some time for people to realize she was great because she might seem like an M1 killer, but she must be played in a different way
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