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Survivors should have boosted action speeds when the killer is facecamping
Many people are saying the solution to facecamping is just to "rush gens and punish the killer" - that is not possible unless you are playing in a coordinated team or have very smart teammates - since that is often not the case, a facecamping killer will get an easy win every single game.
The solution is simple - just give survivors a boost to all actions speeds that slowly and constantly rises as long as the killer is extremely close to the hook. This way facecamping could actually be counterable for less experienced people. The boost would dissapear after all gens are done.
Your opinions?
Edit: By extreme proximity I meant 2-5 meters. You could not loop killers for a long time 2-5 meters from a hook, so no, no way to exploit that.
Comments
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That would be nice! Also some tips in the loading screen would come in handy, I have gotten a ton of boosted teammates that stay the 2 whole minutes camping hook.
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The problem with solutions like this is people keep their chases and loops near the hook in order to exploit the benefit. So the onus is on the killer to always hook away from any strong structure or simply ignore any nearby survivors and play sub optimally.
It was before my time but I believe punishments due to hook proximity have been tried and the end result was the same. Its exploited in the other direction for the benefit of survivors.
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I just think the killer should be more motivated to leave the hook. Like maybe built in BBQ or they get bonus hook points for leaving the general area of a person they just hooked.
The camped survivor should also be compensated for being forcefully put out of the game with minimal points and 10 minutes of their life in queue wasted.
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Survivors don't need a boost to do gens, they have Resilience, Prove thy Self, 2 people can work on a gen...there's no reason to just do them faster. Sure it sucks to get face camped but that's just a part of the game.
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I meant "extreme proximity" - something like 2-5 meters. it would be difficult to loop a killer 𝘦𝘹𝘵𝘳𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘭𝘺 close to the hook - thus it would not be an issue
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What you described is resolved by running Kindred.
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This would easily be exploited.
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Cant be done. Toxic swf will abuse it by looping the killer around the hooked survivor.
If the devs want to get rid of camping, they already have the mechanics to do it, pyramid heads cages. They dont want to get rid of it though. They want frustration on both sides to keep you coming back. Same reason they dont get rid of teabagging or the survivor meta.
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Unless it's a Bubba, 2 healthy people should in most cases be able to work together to always get a safe unhook. You're in a team, using teamwork is vastly superior to having to change the entire game so one person can safely unhook someone when being facecamped.
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Just run Kindred. All the survivors will know whether the killer is camping or not, so they know not to waste time trying to rescue and instead finish gens.
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How, exactly?
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See the edit. You can't loop the killer 2-5 meters from the hook for more than 5 seconds, so no I don't think this is an issue
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If they do the reverse as well, it seems fair. IF the killer is at the hook, the action time of survivors slowly increase. If he is away from the hook, the sacrifice time increases. By this the survivors have to stop genrushing and have to go for the safe fast or lose their teammate.
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Someone could keep you at the hook and if you leave they get an unhook.
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Well uh, just hit them and if they don't leave, just down them and take them away? If you didn't see the edit, I meant 2-5 meters from the hook. Not too much to loop there
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How about you learn to coordinate with your teammates and train them not to be "idiots" as you call them. The fact that some Survivors are bad doesn't mean the other Survivors need a boost of any kind. Camping is a legitimate part of the game and the DEV had said time and time again this is the case. Learn to play around it or TEACH your partners in Survival. Quit looking for a handout at the expense of other Players.
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No they shouldn't. They already get up to 120 seconds of freedom, there's no need to boost them during that period of time.
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Tldr: Give survivors more second chances
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How do you "train your teammates" when you're playing solo survivor?
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Simple solution:
-If the killer is in chase, gen speed is reduced by x%
-If a survivor is on the hook, gen speed is increased by x%
This means if a killer is camping a survivor, and is not in chase, gens are getting done faster.
It also slows down gen speeds a little.
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You have the same access to their info to send them friend requests that I do. Or you can train them in the game with animations, point and etc. You can get your meaning across, slow but sure. THIS is the game. It is FOUR Survivors versus one Killer. You are not guaranteed all the other Survivors are as good as you. It requires teamwork. Most get better with time. But expecting the game to constantly penalize the the Killer Player because "some" of the Survivors aren't up to snuff is ridiculous. You can also get yourself a group of SWF if that is what you want, or play CUSTOM games where you play only with people you know matter. OR you just keep Ranking yourself up. The better your Rank gets the more other Survivors of like Skill you are going to end up with. Or, play Killer if you can't handle being part of a team.
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That sounds pretty interesting not gonna lie. Also the numbers could be tweaked if balance became an issue so re-balancing would become easier over time.
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So if i were to stand 6 meters away, i wouldn't apply the buff to them, right?
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Yeah, you try convincing that random claudette that crouches next to the camped survivor to do a gen. See if you are successful. Facecamping should not be a thing - on high ranks it does not happen and on low ranks it is more common and unstoppable. That is how you lose a playerbase. Maybe you should try playing survivor sometime.
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I just presented an idea - of course it is not perfect and would have to be adjusted correctly but you get the gist of it.
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Okay.
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I'll grant you this.
Finally an anti-camping suggestion doesn't fail even in principle.
That said, the existence of a hard and small range limit would make it easy to just stand right outside the area, while a larger area would make it trigger on Killers that aren't camping.
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You know how you do that? Sandbag them. They will get the idea. If I have Kindred and notice a herd of Claudette (or any Survivor) doing nothing but crouching about, I'm more than happy to lead my chaser right on top of them. They can help the team by taking that hit. Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk. I understand your frustration, but camping is part of the game. There are lots of ways Survivors can deal with it but they MUST do it as a Team. If they aren't up to doing the simple things, it isn't the Killer's fault.
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I beg to differ. I have Red Rank Killers after me all the time and I've been camped by them just as much as anyone else. These "subjective" terms like Camping and Face Camping MEAN NOTHING because nobody agrees on it. More to the point, camping (all kinds) is part of the game. You can look back through my posts. You won't find ONE of them talking or complaining about a single Survivor Perk that is INSIDE the game. Why? Because I simply adapt. I play both Survivor and Killer. I've been camped and I have camped. I'm fine with it. I've been tunneled and I have tunneled. I have been mori'd and I have done my fair share of them too. The game keeps right on clicking along. These things aren't problems. They are weird abominations created on the forum in the echo chamber, where we only hear from the unhappy people, rather than the vast majority of players who are FINE with things.
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I don't blame the hate for camping tunneling but this idea would brake the game more then help imo.
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Well, there are objectively 2 types of camping. Proxy camping - patrolling the area around the hooked survivor (valid strategy) and Facecamping - just staring at the hooked survivor from very up close. My idea was to prevent the latter.
Camping IS a part of the game, but it shouldn't be. And no, most people are not fine with it. It is the source of the boring survivor meta. Killer is camping? Bring borrowed time. Killer knows how to counter BT, or you don't know if teammates will have it? Bring DS just in case. Killer would slug to avoid DS? Bring unbreakable. Without camping, survivors wouldn't use these perks as much and the game would be much healthier.
The devs just need to focus on preventing tunneling/camping and readjusting gen times/adding a second objective. That would make the game much more fun to play.
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I don't agree with saying that face camping guarantees a win. Have one survivor on a gen, the other two go towards the hook and the killer chases 1 or at least looks in their direction. Then if you have BT just grab them, even if you're solo you can have bond and judge the situation. It's pretty likely that a rando will be on a gen somewhere far off and another will go for the unhook. Even if he stands right at the hook you can take a hit then unhook with BT. Then they'll either hit them or hit you and you'll trade. You probably want to wait until they're close to hitting second stage/death for it to be worth it assuming someone is on a gen. Then repeat, have unbreakable and DS if you want to be safe since you can't be sure that your team will have BT when they unhook you while he's camping you after the trade. Having the killer standing next to the hook while the timer is going down is almost the same as having him chase if someone is getting a gen done as long as you get the survivor off the hook before the next phase.
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The truth of the matter is that I have Face Camped a player before who was being extremely rude pre-game (knew him from previous rudeness post game) and he was doing all sorts of annoying stuff in the game I camped him. Even with me RIGHT there face camping him, the dedicated SWF of his pals were able to get him off the hook. It can be done. It happens every day. It just depends on whether there is a will for it to be done. :)
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So you defend facecamping because you like to do it - what a surprise.
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Yeah maybe but the proximity would have to be really small. Then it may defeat the purpose as the killer could still camp just not 'facecamp' as it were. I see where you are coming from though.
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No. I don't like to do it. I only "Face Camp," i.e. stand right there once in a Blue Moon when I get a racist or otherwise obnoxious fella in my grip who has also gone out of his way to be toxic in the match and/or hack. And I make it perfectly plain what I'm doing on these rare events.
Now as to whether I stay in the vicinity of a hooked Survivor so I can come back if they run to the hook? Sure. I do that all the time. Of course, I don't want to be seen. I can't do it on the sly like Hag. I do rounds and patrol in the area. But more often than not I can SEE the other Survivors right there. I can't camp if I can see them from the start. Camping implies waiting for them to come to the hook. If they are already there and just waiting for me to leave, that is on them.
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while that would certainly be nice, it would probaply end up being cheesable by eigther the survivors or the killer.
i wouldnt mind if it were to be added to Camaraderie though...
imagine the perk pausing the sacrificial process by 10 seconds (or slowing it down by 10% overall) when the killer is within 10m to the hook for 10 seconds while also inreasing the action speed of everyone else by 10% for 10 seconds (camaraderie cant be stopped by the killer stepping out of the radius once activated - and much like Diversion we could let it keep the process towards it, so that the killer cant reset it at once by leaving the hook for a second before returning, but it shouldnt be a cooldown short enough to punish killers who are not camping) - (ALL NUMBERS ARE PLACEHOLDERS, i randomly picked the number 10).
i just feel like it would be too cheesable as a base feature, but as a perk that would benefit survivors that would also not end up being there every single game (so the killer cant plan around it) i would be totally for it.
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Under normal circumstances it would take a survivor 120 seconds to die on hook. It takes 80 seconds to repair a generator solo, without anything to modify the speed.
So if all 3 remaining survivors split up and work on gens, that would cause 3 gens to finish with 40 seconds before the hooked survivor dies.
2 survivors working together finish a gen in ~47 seconds, which pops a 4th gen approximately 7 seconds after the hooked survivor dies. and has the 5th gen half done.
This doesn't account for the time it takes to find a new generator, it also assumes that all gens are starting at 0, the first chase took no time, it took the killer no time to hook the survivor, that there are no perks or toolboxes in the game to modify speeds, and that no skill checks that are failed or great. Also being assumed is that there is no key in play.
Dealing with a face camper is very much as simple as splitting up and working on gens. Work on the most dangerous gens or central gens first, then work on the gens on the edges of the map. Then you throw every pallet that you need to until the gates are open, because that killer probably has NOED/Blood Warden.
If you are being facecamped, it is your job to take as much time as you can to die. Do not try to Kobe from the hook, do not stop struggling. Make the killer waste the whole 120 seconds.
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Did you even read the post?
Of course, like you and I said, splitting on gens is the best thing to do in the situation - but only a well coordinated SWF or VERY smart solo queue survivors can pull this off.
Your average survivor team (for example 2 friends and 2 solo survivors) won't be doing the optimal thing - one person will be trying to save and crouch next to the camped person, one is going to wander around the map and one is working on gens. This way, the killer gets an easy kill, and there are 3-4 gens left to be done. Winning from that point is a piece of cake. A camped solo queue player can also just suicide on hook, because he won't be getting any points anyway and might as well move on to the next game.
And I don't think I need to explain why standing still in front of a hook for 2 minutes shouldn't be a valid strategy to beat average teams. Do I?
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i think they mean unhook speed as long as theres not a second survivor there
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Yes, I read the post. I explained why standing in front of the hook for 2 minutes isn't a good strategy. What the survivors choose to do with their time, when a team mate is being camped, is on them. Likewise a survivor choosing to be selfish and kill themselves on hook dooms their whole team. There is even a load screen message that tells you that this is how you counter a face camp.
Counterpoint: Why implement a new mechanic to the game to counter an issue that already has a counter that just requires the survivors to just do their objectives.
Bonus Counter:
Run kindred, deliverance, borrowed time, and DS.
Kindred to know the killer is face camping, borrowed time to get a safe unhook, then deliverance to kobe yourself, and DS to escape when they down you after you kobe in their face.
I argue that facecamping:
1) is a bad strategy for a base game-play strategy
2) has means to counter it
2a) The counter does not require significant coordination nor particular perks or items
2b) The counter is explained in one of the loading screens, removing the "smart solo queue" part
2c) The counter can be improved with perks and items
3) Being facecamped is a miserable experience, but killing yourself on hook dooms the team, then the killer wins
4) Adding a mechanic to fight camping is not needed, and actually runs counter to the existence of the perk Insidious.
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I kind of think you do need to explain. You see, a "valid" strategy is one that works. Thus, if the average team still makes foolish moves then the Killer is going to exploit it. I remember when Kindred first became a thing. I would either see my team all crouching around hiding and doing NOTHING constructive, or all of them rushing toward me for the save. I'm like, WHY are you all coming to save me. It only takes one person to unhook. At worst, two so one can lead the Killer off if he is hanging close. Some of them should be cranking those Generators.
My point is that average to bad players are NOT the Killer's problem. They are YOUR problem. You don't fix it by trying to get the Killer's options lowered. You fix it by expanding the minds of your team. You could be posting long, instructional threads talking about what people should be doing. You are much more likely to make a difference doing that continuing to claim camping is a problem when the DEV have already said it is a valid strategy. Understand?
- Survivor is hooked. The ideal is to unhook said survival prior to the struggle state, but not as early as possible. That way you maximize time for Generators if the Killer is staying in the vicinity hoping to get someone who is coming for the save. Every minute he sits there he is thinking about how people aren't coming and how they are popping Generators. I've seen many Campers crack.
- Don't farm your team.
- Always be doing something.
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if by "win" you mean 1 kill, then okay.
Do gens
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Ideally the camped survivor should get a BP bonus every few seconds the killer is near the hook with no survivors around.
They should also get partial lightbringer credit (Same as when you're being chased) for gen and totem progress by other survivors when being facecamped.
This would result in being more likely to get a safety pip rather than a depip if you get facecamped.
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I feel you have game like this a lot.
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Not often no; I'm playing to win and a Face Camp is pretty much ceding the game to make a point. I play to win, and if I can't win I want to learn something from people who are better than me. It takes an awful lot to get me to face camp. Right now, the count is only at two.
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I need to type better
I meant I feel you on this I have games like this a lot.
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Oh, I get it now. Yeah.... there are limitations in this medium. The typo is a harsh mistress. :)
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tell me about.
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then SWF should have a debuff, even it out for the killer
killer lames their way to objective completion, you say should give survivors buff
survivors genbot in swf, killer should get a buff -- via survivor debuff
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