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Not having counterplay is ONLY a problem if it's on the killer's side
I really have nothing to add to the title. I'm kinda tired of how many people complain about how Deathslinger, Pyramid Head or Spirit "have no counterplay" when most of survivors' perks and core mechanics have little to no downsides or options for killers to play around/capitalise on.
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The thing is there is counterplay to those killers, and there is counterplay/downsides to the perks on survivor side, however as seen in the clip you accompany the counterplay can be removed by combinations.
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Well, this is a complete Perk Build dedicated to it and it only works if he gets Deliverance to work (like that, at least) or if he does not use up his Unbreakable or DS before Endgame.
Let alone that there might have been more than enough matches were it did not work, which we dont see.
But dont worry, you will get Upvotes en masse on this forum.
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Negative pp? Inverse pp? Nano pp? Micro pp?
Idk, any suggestions yourself?
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There's thousands of hours of footage of boosted rank 1 Spirits getting no hooks, genrushed and ran around to death but people still cry about her.
It's not the situational aspect of the build it's the fact that the hypocrisy is real. This build exists and in those scenarios is uncounterable. It's just not a problem because survivors are allowed to be strong and synergize their builds freely. Can you imagine if survivor perks got the same amount of restrictions as killer perks?
"After repairing the last generator, if it's on the South side of the map, Adrenaline activates."
"After getting hit by a basic attack while falling, press the active ability button to gain a short burst of speed."
Killers are forced to respect survivor builds (DS, DH, etc), run certain perks JUST to be effective, and play as perfectly as possible to have a chance vs decent survivors, while survivors are allowed to not just mess up but get rewarded for playing poorly. A save that risky should not equal a free escape.
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"Killers are forced to respect survivor builds (DS, DH, etc), run certain perks JUST to be effective, and play as perfectly as possible to have a chance vs decent survivors, while survivors are allowed to not just mess up but get rewarded for playing poorly. A save that risky should not equal a free escape."
LOL.
Regarding the other stuff you wrote:
Well, it is the synergy. You cannot really do anything against synergy, except nerfing Perks, which are fine on their own. And yes, I also consider UB + DS fine, because ######### Killers playstyle.
But it is whatever, I am slowly giving up on this forum. Like I said, you will be praised here for your Thread which is basically only about "whataboutism".
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Funny how that "LOL" is probably the most meaningful contribution you've written.
And for some reason you keep missing the point over and over and over. Survivors are allowed to have synergy, while killers have cooldowns, special requirements and basically every resource available so that none of their perks synergise.
Don't worry tho you really got your point across ending your statement with a bang, cause if your opinion is all "######### killers playstyle" then I'm sure most people won't miss your incredibly biased opinion around here.
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You're going to be upvoted by either side depending on what you post. The forum doesn't swing one way or the other, despite your unnecessary snark and passive aggression.
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I play both sides. And sorry, but "LOL" is completely correct for the statement "Killers have to play perfectly and Survivors can make dozens of mistakes". Because tthose go hand in hand with "Survivors are Potatoes in Red Ranks"...Yeah, what of those two statements now?
I am Rank 1 as Killer and I play nowhere near perfectly, and still manage to win most of my games. And if I can do that, the majority of Killer Mains should be able to do that.
But yeah, I know, Killer is very hard, blabla. Both sides are easy to play.
"And for some reason you keep missing the point over and over and over. Survivors are allowed to have synergy, while killers have cooldowns, special requirements and basically every resource available so that none of their perks synergise."
Killers also have synergies? I mean, look at the stacking of all the Slowdown Perks, as an example.
And Cooldowns - there is no Killer ability with Cooldown which does not justify it. MAYBE Clown, because he is so weak, but even Clown with unlimited Bottles might be too much. Besides that, comparing anything what Survivors have with Killer abilities is not really possible, IMO.
Like I said before, I play both sides and I am also not happy to see such an unsafe Unhook which results in an immunity-situation. But I would call this quite niche, because, as I said, you dont know how many tries were before this particular game.
And I am always against players "abusing" certain Perks (even tho, using DS and Unbreakable together would not be abuse, even if some Killers say it...), because those will eventually ruin those Perks for players who use them on a normal basis.
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Survivors mostly argue that as killer you can counter pretty much everything survivors do and it's true. You truly can counter everything survivors do as killer, be it goldy looping when you play M1 killer, great SWF coordination poping all gens in 5 min or any extremely strong perk combo etc.
Although what they often forget to add is that it costs TIME, a lot of it actually. And once you're out of it, you lose.
It really annoys me that then later they complain about killers like nurse, deathslinger, PH or spirit who can put up with some or all of this and demand more "fair" counterplay to make their matches vs them less boring. Pity they almost never consider killer's fun when demaning these changes to make their gameplay more fun but that's nothing new. Some of these suggested changes are fair to an extent but so many of them are just complete overkills.
I wish everyone just stopped with this constant spam of "no counterplay/unfair/boring" on both sides and just played the game without qutting the first time something doesn't go their way. If anything needs changes provide some reasonable feedback and if it's a legitimate issue devs will eventually change it. Both sides have annoying hard to counter tools they can use and all of them could use some changes but demaning changes to one side whie dismissing the issues of the other is so hypocritical.
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I don't really think the game is slanted either way. Granted iv not played for very long, about a year, but iv reached red rank on both sides with non meta perks and killers and I feel like things are alright. The only perk I have a problem with is DS. I get having a nontunnel perk, but a whole minute of basically immunity when coming of the hook is pretty ridiculous. Then people make whole builds around DS which spoils the gameplay. I feel like all DS does is punish a killer for capitalizing on a survivors mistake.
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There is no counterplay to deathslinger as his shot is impossible to react to, and spirit is a guess, so no counterplay there. If you can run one for a while it isn't your skill. It means they messed up. Those two are the only ones with no counterplay.
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All of your examples are balanced but spirit, as she has mobility and the second best chase power in the game. However, i do agree with you that survivors have broken things too. But the thing is, those killers do need rework/nerfs, and so do the broken things on the survivor side. The devs don't seem to get that you shouldn't be adding broken ######### to counter other broken #########. You just fix the broken #########.
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okay, then there’s two problems with things in the game. that doesn’t discredit peoples arguments about spirit/pyramid head/deathslinger
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There very much is, so you think that the survivor cant influence at all if a deathslinger will get the hit or not? Breaking line of sight, getting distance, being unpredictable all make it much harder for him to get the hit, you dont need to react if you can make it so he cant get a clean shot, and even then it's the same speed as a fully charged hatchet with a much smaller hitbox, so depending on the range it is reactable , if you dont think that's counterplay than what is.
On the spirit point it is a guess, but an educated guess , alike almost everything in this and any other human v human game, hell even chess could be considered a series of educated guesses. And I highly doubt anyone would say that chess is just guesses, so therefore you cant counter your opponent. I could go into more detail but theres a plethora of discussions about this on these forums, take your pick.
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Oh, Oh, let me try it:
I play both sides. I am a Red Rank survivor and i play nowhere near perfectly, and still manage to win most of my games. And if i can do that, the majority of survivor mains should be able to do that.
since both are just anecdotal evidence, both are equaly valid. Can you explain how the majority of killers AND the majority of survivors can win the majority of their games? I dont understand the math behind that.
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No killer right now needs any serious rework. Some small nerfs to a few of top tier killers are warranted but demaning full rework to killers like spirit or slinger with main argument that they don't have counterplay which is false is unjustified.
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Chess isn't a good example.
Imagine if your opponent didn't need to move their pieces, and could instead place them on a board you can't even see, closer to Battleship. If you guess where they moved their piece incorrectly you just straight up lose the game.
That is Spirit.
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Aryun constantly talks on his twitter about how many hours he has to put into recording just to get one good game.
This one video is likely the culmination of days, maybe weeks of trying to get a game it works in.
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You can use context to figure out what the most likely situations would be, and what would best counter the most likely outcomes. Is it the easiest counterplay, no, but it is counterplay nonetheless. Also how is chess not a good example, predicting your opponent is one of the fundamental parts of the game.
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No pp build
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Its called adaptation some killers are supposed to domonate chases nurse sprit billy. But they have nothing to help them find surivors now there are perks to locate surivors but majorty require surivors to do something. Its like hide or die that game. The hunters are extremely fast or disable the surivors. But if you waist a ton of time by hiding and the killer dosent find you you whin that situation even if you go down. If you waisted 40s of hideing and another 20s with chase 2 or 3 gens are almost done.
Edit typo
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Yea he's a really good survivor one of my faves for sure , alot of the techs that people like to see performed in this game can be easily countered and it can be very hard to trick a killer into falling for it at high ranks you have to get creative , and notice I say high ranks because like he mentions a bad matchmaking killer isn't something people want to watch it's boring and everyone already expects a win in that situation, also nobody thinks you're good for shitting on a yellow rank killer
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I didn't say you can't beat them with sheath, I said they don't have counterplay.
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They have no counterplay. Spirit is a heavily killer sided guess, and slingers shot is not humanly possible to react to. Spirit needs a rework, slinger is fine, as he has low pressure.
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Spirit on the killers side is an educated guess. On the survivor side, you know nothing about what she's doing. You are helpless, and if you don't die THEY messed up. Quickscope is a fraction of a second on deathslinger, meaning it isn't reactable unless you are at max distance. Breaking Los isn't counterplay either, because the second he sees you youre dead.
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Stealth is counter play her guesses dont matter if she cant find you
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If you put on stridor (like 95% of spirits do) you can hear a survivor fart on the other side of mothers dwelling.
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Oh yeah when did you wanna play that custom against deathslinger?
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Killers are forced to respect survivor builds (DS, DH, etc), run certain perks JUST to be effective, and play as perfectly as possible to have a chance vs decent survivors, while survivors are allowed to not just mess up but get rewarded for playing poorly. A save that risky should not equal a free escape.
I have to completely disagree with this. Not once have I feel forced to change my builds just to combat to those perks or play an specific build to "be effective". I feel Its all really just a matter of how good you are with each killer, for example, I can run any build I want with demo and still perform really well because its a killer I know really well, but if I play Hag, a killer I don't have much experience with, and I bring bad perks, I will probably get my ass kicked.
Of course there are punishing squads that know how to play this game really well and will punish all your mistakes, but 1. That's the nature of the game, killer is naturally more stressful and difficult 2. you don't get good squads every game, truth is, not everybody knows how to loop like tru3 or Noob3.
Of course, I do agree some perk combos are too powerful, and I hope they get changed in the near future.
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So you're complaint is that a build with multiple conditions to activate has no counter play?
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They have counterplay, you just don't like it since it doesn't favor you. I never said it was easy to counter them but claiming that your skill as survivors doesn't matter vs them is such a lie. Both require you to be unpredictable which is very hard since they have the upper hand in making their prediction on you, that still doesn't mean you can't do anything about them in chase.
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We can have a few matches today or any other time if you randomly see me online while you play DBD.
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Implying unbreakable+ds don't already win you the game.
Survivors don't even need to run perks to begin with to win games.
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Oh yes please, dont bring perks, makes my games much easier.
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what.
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No they don’t, every other killer apart from nurse is completely reliant on “mind games” which is a fancy word for guess work on most loops, why is it fine when legion has to grind hard for 4k at the highest level but when it’s flipped to the killers favour it needs a rework.
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Everytime a killer does something in order to get an advantage it is a mindgame, be it hiding the red light or standing still as spirit.
Why do you declare hiding the red light is fine and spirit standing still isn't because at both scenarios you will have to guess and predict what is going to happen. So are guesses not fair at all or do you just want the game to be loops like haddonfield 50m white small fence?
Keep it up, when most people not agree with you it is not because they have another opinion based on experience and reaching a conclusion themselves it is due to all of them being biased killer mains. 😥
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I will never understand the rage towards the "standing still mindgame." I can't think of ONE time I thought "ohh she's standing still better run back at her."
People act like it's not a fully 3d game; you can still change the direction you're walking in without making it easier for her to hit you.
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That's right, there is no real counterplay against keys, DS + Unbreakable combo. There might be more, but these are the first 2 came in to my mind. I think most survs complaining about certain killers having no counterplay just want to loop them in circles like any other killer and don't understand that you have to play different vs. Spirit, Doc, PH, Nurse, DS, Freddy and maybe Huntress. Hell, even vs. Clown you have to drop pallets early.
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You mean like a survivor messing up at a safe pallet? Killers rely on survivors making mistakes (at least most of them), but if the turn tables it's a desaster for some reason.
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A very specific scenario doesn't mean something has no counterplay. A killer can make a video with blood warden and say "watch me hook this guy, there is nothing the other can do"
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Hey im playing swf with randoms my bad.
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It's cool, I just wanted to ask if you have time since I wanted to play a few matches and noticed you were online.
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Yes I have time you want to play custom or swf? My match is nearly over all gens done.
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Probably a few matches of custom.
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Add me on discord Azame#7398
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done, Kebek#6507
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Im a nurse main. I don't rely on survivors mistakes. Even when I play other killers, I rely on my own skill. I win 9/10 matches.
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By guessing I'm talking about actually phasing. Youd have to be rank 21 to fall for the standing still mindgame.
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It's guessing. There is nothing you can do that relys on your skill as a player.
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