Loop killer through all gens, still die to NOED: Please add a totem counter.
To be clear: I'm not here to talk about any NOED nerfs or changes.
Just had a Blight chase me through five generators, and I get screwed over by NOED at the end. In this game he was running Hex: Undying with Ruin and NOED (I forget the fourth perk).
I was able to cleanse one lit totem before I started to get chased (was Ruin but because of Undying it transferred.)
In this scenario, I really think a totem counter could have brought more incentive to my teammates to cleanse totems during the game - and of course it helps keep track of how many totems remain on the map. They cleansed a lit totem while I was being face-camped to death but it wasn't NOED.
I'm the type of survivor that cleanses every totem I see, so this is really irritating as a solo. On top of it all, I de-pipped, which in itself is not fair considering Blight was all over me the entire game. Red ranks BTW.
Edit: Too many people are acting as if I'm complaining about NOED or simply not understanding the request at all. I'm explaining a totem counter added to the HUD (for EVERYONE to see, so NOT a perk) could possibly help give incentive to survivors that otherwise aren't looking for totems.
This doesn't impact your precious totems or make survivors cleanse them. It doesn't help SWF either. An icon displaying how many totems remain on the map is NO different than how we currently have generators displayed.
The same people complaining about this request are the ones that say "do bones".
Comments
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There is a counter already, i.e. your whole team takes Totems seriously and does Bones.
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I'm pretty sure he is asking for a UI element that says how many of 5 totems are remaining dull or hex. I personally wouldn't mind it just because 4 man SWFs already have this information and solo queuers would benefit from it.
Totems in general are fairly RNG based and not something I really prefer as a killer but with a few better hiding places like some of the newer maps (namely dead dog saloon for such a small map actually rarely gets all 5 cleansed) and less wide open totems or within 5m of a generator should be a fine if implemented together
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OP meant a totem counter (i.e. how many totems remain), not counters against totem perks.
Post edited by GoshJosh on13 -
Not at all, I took him too literally. I thought he was meaning a counter as in counter- play. If he means a counter showing the number of Totems left, sounds like a great idea. If it isn't in general, it should certainly be part of one of the many information Perks.
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That's rough, NOED is going to be a pain with new totem transfers. It makes totem hunting more of a priority which, helps slow down the gen rush. Maps and tracking can help. A perk for totem hunting would be great!
You de-pipped because you were forced to play chase the entire match and you ended up dying. The pip system is garbage, if the Killer focuses on you, tunnels, slugs, you can't hold rank. It's not a huge deal to me, I can play green ranks all day solo que. Once I get into purples, I start inviting my friends for SWF, it's too damn sweaty in red and purple rank Killers.
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Totem counter as in on the HUD. The same way you're told how many generators are remaining.
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This is still one of those UI elements that I would be okay with as part of a perk, but NOT as a base-game feature.
SWF get the benefits of plenty of perks for free (such as Bond, Kindred, Detective's Hunch, etc) through the power of communication. Solo survivors must run the corresponding perk to get these abilities on their own. I see no reason why a totem counter would be any different.
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The maps are not too big and after you play this game for a while, you learn where to find the totems.
My concern is that by adding things like this to the game, it will babyfy the game - reducing the challenge.. (the challenge is what makes it fun!). If im spoon-fed how many totems there are, it would feel really easy.
Also, how often does one run a killer for 5 gens and then get downed by NOED @skarsguts? Its one of the not so common scenarios, right?
Greetz
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How about if survivor's like you could toggle counter off?
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NOED is a complete nonfactor. The killer lost that game (the 1v4). If your teammates spent time trying to find 5 totems, that killer would have had a huge amount of game delay for potentially no reason at all. It is never worth it to pre-cleanse NOED against a good killer. It's essentially handing them a 4k because your team isn't doing gens.
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Small Game perk.
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Thank you!!! THIS is going to help me soooo so so much in my next Solo Q match. Damn, what a genius u are. How could I not came up with that?? Just get better team mates 4head!!!!!
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I can't exactly stop mid-chase to cleanse totems I saw. It was one of those situations where I couldn't make the next pallet by a split second. I'm pretty sure I would have gotten hit running towards the exit gate anyways (which was in the process of being opened when I got hit).
Edit: I'm being bloodlusted as well.
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My apologies then; I should have also clarified what he meant in my first reply.
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I disagree... If they spent time cleansing totems, there would have been a higher chance of me being able to actually survive the game. There wouldn't have been 1-3 lit totems left because 3 survivors didn't want to cleanse them.
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This perk needs to be buffed to show how many totems have been cleansed or remain; sort of an anti-Thrill of the Hunt perk.
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<laughs> If counter-play was being sought (it wasn't) this would have been the right answer. I know it isn't what most people want to hear; Totems are high risk, high yield Perks. There are five of them on the map and most of them spawn in plain sight (sadly) so it doesn't take too much to find them. It doesn't take too long to cleanse them (assuming no Hex: Thrill of the Hunt). That means if each Survivor cleansed one Totem they happen across, it becomes a non-issue. Granted, I know as a Solo person you have little control over the quality of the Survivors you get, but they DO get better. We have ALL been there.
We have all been there when Kindred reveals the rest of the team crouching around and doing nothing productive while we die on the hook. We have all been there, when we personally have cleansed two Totems, and Noed still goes off. We have all been there when another Survivor leads the Killer right on top of us while we are doing a Gen (Kindred was up so he could see us and we could see him). Sadly, it is just one of those things. I expect the Hex: Undying and such will get the point across real fast to everyone that they MUST treat Bones with the same priority as they do Generators.
All that being said, he just wanted a visual display of how many Totems are left. Sounds like a great idea, or at least as part of a Perk. HOWEVER, it is a double-edged sword. Many Survivors (particularly those of lower quality) will see a lot of Totems left and not bother, thinking it won't affect their game. They will only get motivated if they see a LOW number on it and know their efforts will matter.
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So you'd rather add to the pile of advantages SWF gets over solo queue instead of trying to make it better? Sounds backwards to me.
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I really don't understand Killer mains lmao.
They're always like "DO BONES LOL"
But at the same time don't want there to be a totem counter. It's like... do you WANT Survivors to do bones, or not??? This is why the whole "Do Bones" argument doesn't sit right with me.
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This scenario is a perfect example of why NOED should be changed.
The ones that are most affected are the ones that do most of the work during a trial or succeed at distracting the killer most of the game. (Lets call them the MVP) The MVP has no chance of doing totems since the Killer won't leave them alone, and then when all gens are done, they get downed and camped and die on first hook.
But it's not the Killer's fault for running a cheap perk, it's the other survivor's fault for not using the time that the MVP is giving them, to consciously run around the map, taking time away from gens in order to make sure all 5 totems are gone.
What is the MVP supposed to do?? GIVE THEMSELVES to the Killer so that they have a chance of searching for totems before endgame?? I don't think so!
I saw an idea of having 5 lit candles in the basement and each fire represents a totem being untouched. This would be a cool addition for a counter.
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By that logic, we should just make the effects of all perks SWF get for free into base-game features.
Should solo survivors get free locations on where their teammates are, where the killer is, where gens are, where Hexes are, and where gates are at all times? What makes a totem counter different from other SWF "freebies"?
Solo survivors don't get Bond or OoO or Detective's Hunch for free without a corresponding perk/item, why should a totem counter not cost a perk slot?
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I'm a Killer "main" as I play Killer slightly more than Survivor, and I think having a display of how many Totems are left is fine. I've never heard a single Killer have a problem with it. We want you to work Bones too. Half the time we take Hexes to slow down the Gen-Rush. There is nothing wrong with Noed. Let me repeat, there is nothing wrong with Noed. There are already Killers that start the match with the power of Insta-down all game long. There are other Killers that power up to it or have Add-ons which provide it. Noed, at least, doesn't kick in until a specific time so there is no unfortunate surprise.
I rarely put Noed in my list of Perks, but not because I have a problem with it. I just can't squeeze it in. Slowing the Gen-Rush with Ruin and such is more important to me.
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My concern would remain, because It would still enable the babyfy-effect due to other players.
If people struggle, Small Game is a huge help for them to locate only the 5 totems
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I wholeheartedly agree. A totem counter would be a great quality of life addition that doesn't nerf any Hex perks nor make survivors do totems - but I've still seen people say it would be a counter to killers and/or make totems easier to find. I don't get it.
If anything it could reduce NOED complaints that killers hate to see so much. "Do bones" hasn't positively contributed to anything.
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A totem counter would nerf NOED since it'd incentivize cleansing which would make less games were NOED pops up. 😬
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There already is a totem counter, Small game, just because its not meta (and admittedly a weaker perk IMO) doesn't mean you cant use it. It does exactly what your asking for, it helps you find totems. Sadly its really not your fault if you were running the killer, its on your teammates to suck it up and look for totems instead of pushing through Ruin
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I'm a Killer and I disagree. The point of NOED is to force people to do Bones, not the fleeting, highly subjective Insta-Down during end game. That was always the point of NOED, to try an nudge Survivors to treat Totems the same as they do Generators. That buys the Killer more time to hunt them down before losing them out the gate. If anything, a Counter would mean you get MORE value out of the NOED.
If they clean them all, GREAT.... you gained a fair amount of time that they were not on Generators. If they missed even ONE you still get your NOED. I just think you are thinking about the Perk backwards, i.e. its true purpose.
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One thing i remember someone mentioning for that was a tally counter in the basement, that way there's a need to actually go to the basement and it could just look like the same tally marks in the lobby, going away one by one till they're all gone.
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We're talking about a counter added to the HUD, showing how many totems remain on the map. For everyone.
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I really like this 5 lit candles in the basement idea. It's information, but subtle information. You have to seek it out. Good info for those looking for info- those uninterested would most likely not even notice it.
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If I run the killer for 3-4 gens and 0 hooks, I'll usually let the killer down me in a somewhat convincing manner, giving the rest of my team a chance to get some Altruism points, run the killer, and/or play something other than M1 simulator.
In post-game, I'll ask why they didn't even try to take aggro during the match.
That's just me, though.
On topic - I just use Detective's Hunch if I'm worried about NOED.
Alternatively, you can use Small Game or a Map.
If I'm not using anything to find/break totems and think there may be some left, I'll try not to be in a chase before the last gen is done and respect the killer if I hear them coming before the gates are open.
Post edited by Raccoon on2 -
If 3 survivors do nothing but let their teammate run killer and rush gens during this time, it is entirely their own fault for not doing bones. As to the Candles in basement I will also remind you KILLERS do not have this information naturally (They need to run a perk to get this info). If something like this were to be implemented then then killers would need a straight counter on the UI somewhere while survivors would have to check basement for this information. This is due to the fact the killer needs to be out in the map pressuring gens while a single survivor can check basement really at any time without much worry.
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SWF have info of how many totems have been cleansed, and location, A totem counter only shows the amount of totems left. It doesn't show players their location... Its the same as the Generator counter... you want the gen counter to be turned into a perk too? I don't think so.
Totem counter..... as in.... numbers... as in.... 1 2 3 4 5...
But... isn't that what killers want?? Don't NOED users want survivors to "do bones"???? I don't understand?? You want survivors to do bones but don't want them to be incentivized?? Make that make sense. This is exactly what I mean. NOED stans have the same mentality.
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?????? what are they supposed to do? You suggesting that they should go and try to take the killer away from them? That'll only hinder the person who's getting chased and probably get the other survivor downed quicker. Again, you're suggesting Survivors should hand themselves to the Killer or sabotage their teammates. And again, 3 survivors running around the entire map totem hunting while one of the survivors gets chased all game is purely a waste of time. You want survivors to consciously waste time.
Why care about a totem counter for Killer if any Hex perks are already located for you? What are you gonna do with that information? Camp the last dull totem in order to get NOED? You'll still need to walk around the map and waste YOUR time to find it.
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If it's a perk, sure. Otherwise absolutely not please. Already too much benefiting survivors these days.
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A totem counter wouldn’t give any information on where totems are, where they were cleansed or where they remain, it would just give solo survivors an idea of if their teammates are actually doing totems or not. Nobody is asking for base kit Detective’s Hunch, they just want to know how many totems remain on the map.
I mean, how is this any different from the gen counter? That exists and yet there are also gen revealing perks that aren’t base kit despite SWF having an advantage on that as well. Should that be removed too? Killers bang on about totems being an objective but then when survivors ask for the game to treat them like the only other objective and have a counter within the UI, all of a sudden that would be like making Bond base kit somehow. Your comparison is nonsensical.
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The Gen Counter makes sense as gens are the survivors' main objective towards reaching their team goal (escape). Totems are not a necessary step in achieving this goal. Just an optional step in improving the survivors' chances of success; about equivalent to searching chests. (Do we need a base-game counting system for those too?) The same kind of argument could be made to give the killer a pallet or breakable wall countdown (it's not their objective to destroy those, but each one lost can weaken the survivor team).
Really, people should be calling this what they intend it to be: the "Am I safe from NOED?" Counter. I get that people hate NOED, but it seems more sensical to counteract this perk with another perk. Survivors already have several tools to prevent (or remove) NOED more effectively. Let's just improve some of those tools a bit so that players are more inclined to actually use them instead of falling back into the "second chances out the wazoo" meta.
Maybe it's just me, but a base totem counter would also remove the one part of NOED that is actually fun from the survivor's perspective: the "is it active?" moment right after the gens get finished. It's a unique thrill that helps make playing survivor more intense in that brief period before it's existence is confirmed or denied. A totem counter will much more reliably remove that moment, whereas you could otherwise experience this suspense virtually every match as a solo survivor. Putting this counter in a perk or as part of a map (or a map add-on) provides the utility that people want at a reasonable cost. Otherwise this is bound to make most survivors generally feel safer against NOED and other Hex perks, which seems counterintuitive for the "prey" role of DbD.
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I've seen the idea tossed about to have such a totem counter in the basement, as scratches on a wall resembling the DBD logo as well. This I would not mind.
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Cleanse totems? Small game? Detectives Hunch?
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Totem counter should have been added ages ago. I’ve made at least 2-3 discussion topics explaining why it’s a good idea
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In other words
The counter of noed is the bones, but you cant know how many bones are left so you have to tell your teamates to do bones
But use discord to tell your team to do bones is toxic
It dont depend on us it depend of dont picking that teamate that T-bag for an infinite tier 3 myers
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there is literary perk and item that counters totem so hard, just try to remove one of your crutches and use small game instead, or just bring in the map like holy f
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You joke, but we do need to give solo queue a lot more help. I'm not talking about free perks, but stuff like this:
- Totem counter in the HUD.
- More gestures beyond beckon and point to improve communication with nearby teammates.
- More perk indicators in the HUD. For example, if a teammate is hooked with Deliverance active, add a Deliverance buff icon in the HUD for all survivors.
- Buffs to information perks.
- Cross-platform lobby chat, so that solo queue players can still strategize or at least communicate their intentions with their teammates before the match starts. Even if most console players type slowly, they can still read quickly. Plus, short messages are still powerful! If it takes them 45 seconds to type "have syringe" or "exit gate daily" that'd still be really helpful for their team to know.
- Improved matchmaking. With a perfect matchmaking system, any disadvantages from always playing in solo queue would naturally be factored into your skill rating if you play solo a lot. You'd therefore get matched with slightly worse killers to compensate. Plus, it would be so nice to get matched with people who won't let you die on your first hook.
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Not knowing how many totems are left on the map is literally part of the game's intended design - you're supposed to use something (item/perk) to ensure you get them all/increase your chances to get them all.
SWF on comms having access to this info is irrelevant, as the game is not balanced around this, and it never will be.
Sucks that you're handicapped for playing the game as intended, but at this point I don't think "buffing solos and killers to SWF levels" was anything but talk to placate people.
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Detectives Hunch ezpz
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Your logic is actually braindead. "Why should solo survivors get to have the same benefits as SWF!! They should should have to play a perk to do it!" Playing solo survivor is already infinitely weaker and more difficult than SWF and the solo survivor/SWF gap is why killers are kept as weak as they are--why would you advocate keeping solo survivor weak?
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It sounds like the problem was with your team not cleansing totems. Not a lack of information from the game.
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Actually I agree with some of these comments. Should be a perk or something. Like plunder’s instinct. Tells you where the chests are. How about one for totems.
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I think the addition of some sort of Clergy Survivor who has a Perk called say, "Crusade" who can see Totems lit up just like the Plunder's Instinct, that would be worthwhile, certainly.
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######### happens.
Your team should do bones.
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