The attitude of developers to SWF.
On some past streams, they mentioned that they are not responsible for the fact that players can communicate with each other - skype, discord, and so on. Some of your killer perks simply do not work with the SWF, as well as some killer abilities - trapper, hag. Separately, you can highlight Object of Obsession, everything is clear here.
Apparently it is very convenient to relieve yourself of responsibility for the mechanics of your own game and pass it on to the players. Maybe then you will warn about the presence of friends in the killer's lobby so that the killer does not take perks that do not work with survivors in the SWF. Maybe completely rework the perks and abilities of some killers. At the moment it looks like disrespect and disregard for their own player base, nothing more.
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Although I'm not against SWF as a killer....there needs to be some type of BP bonus or something the killer gains when going against a SWF.
I don't agree with being notified, guaranteed killers will leave the lobby.
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I had an idea for this. The killer cannot depip when playing against swf, and gets a triple bloodpoint bonus in all categories. Only 2 items are allowed per swf.
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The devs refuse to admit there's a problem with SWF despite most of the community saying so because if they do, they'd have to do something to fix it.
Certain perks like OoO just become completely broken with SWF. Other perks just become obsolete because with comms you won't need things like empathy, bond, kindred, etc. since all that information can be passed. Things like blind, knockout, etc. are completely useless too with comms. The game wasn't made with comms in mind it's a bit silly the devs have not addressed it properly since adding SWF so long ago. Especially since it breaks so many mechanics of the game in favor of one side.
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I'm fine with whatever along these lines up til the only 2 items per allowed part. The entire point of leaving SWF alone to not kill the fragile playerbase as it is to allow folks who want to cooperatively play casually together be left alone to do so. They're pretty set on not alienating that portion of the playerbase for a reason.
First Suggestion: Add ingame voice chat options or at least typing or preset macros that the devs decide on (if they are worried about toxicity of survivors to one another) to level the playing field by bringing solo queue more in line with SWF without hurting their own bottom line. Coordination will always be better with friends who know your relative skillsets but it'll be perfectly fine to BUFF UP those Killer perks and powers with the baseline assumption that all survivors are running at the same base capabilities of info share.
Now if what OP said is true and this is completely discarded as a potential solution already by the developers themselves...
Second Suggestion: Just give an indicator at the scorescreen after a game is over on who was paired up with who among the survivors, not visible during the game at all or during the pre-game lobby. Give a significant bloodpoint bonus, Depip wouldn't even matter if you get 2x~3x your 20k BP loss making it more than the 32k limit before even accounting for BBQ or BP Offerings... well it shouldn't bother the depiping killers but then again there will always be those who just want all survivors to get downed and hooked together at the touch of a button.
Post edited by ZCerebrate on0 -
I like the second suggestion, that way it's possible to know if it's an swf or not and it will give more incentive to play killer if theres more BP involved.
Good idea honestly.
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It makes no sense to balance killers around a strong 4-man SWF when a strong 4-man SWF is exceedingly rare, and neglects the current situation with solo queuers. The devs have repeatedly shown that, statistically, well over 2 survivors are killed each game - it's usually closer to 3. So what you're saying is likely not a statistically significant issue.
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I'm pretty sure the devs have acknowledged it? I think I recall some talk about them trying to buff solo survivors to swf levels and then buffing killers to compensate. I believe they were going to test kindred as base kit but then never did and went back to ignoring the problem.
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What about survivors throwing the game trying to rescue someone and failing and the killer ending up getting a 2k or more which he didnt deserve?
Game shouldn't be balanced around SWF. But that doesn't mean SWF itself shouldn't be nerfed to make them in line with solo players.
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And they wont, maybe when Milky cow DBD start to get old and having less milk they will balance to lure more players but thats it.
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I keep saying it BP is not a solution I want to have fun not BP! I want more time for chases i dont mind if they escape but more interaction.
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Why he didnt deserve they made a mistake, several ones to killer get 2k to be exactly.
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Kill stats are pointless. I have been in so many games where the survivors throw it after all the gens are done.
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An easy solution would be the one Blizzard used in Heroes of the Storm to deal with a similar issue regarding premades vs randoms.
Basically, for every player in your group/party queuing together, your MMR is temporarily inflated.
This means that to counter the increased coordination, you will be paired with a higher skilled killer.
That seems amazingly fair.
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I think 3x BP is a bit much but I won't complain because I'm Bloodpoint #########. But not limiting items because, as has been said so many times before, you can't limit people playing with their friends. If 4 man toolbox death squads want to play together they'll lobby dodge in solo until they find each other to do so.
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The problem is that the game just...doesn't feel set up for SWF. It wasn't built for it. It was clearly built for randos vs a killer. Both thematically and mechanically.
SWF was something tacked on and now you have a lose/lose - where premade stompcomps will become nastier and more prevalent, making killers either quit, go survivor themselves or become amazingly bitter and unfun to play against.
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Maybe just limit the addons so 4 bnp or syringes don't exist, not the items. This is only for 4 man sef though.
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That'd require BHVR to have a not broken matchmaking first.
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The meg main got a big brain again!
Seriously, a BP bonus and some tweaks to problematic perks like OoO would be enough to satisfy both sides.
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I always kind of felt perks like bond, kindred or empathy should be built into the game to close the gap of SWF and solo.
Perks like knockout should be reworked with comms and these information perks in mind.
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yap.. their not responsible with chat program... but make many DLC killer rage quit because SWF usually trolling killer... I watch many streamer trolling with red rank killer while they play with friend.... and fells so bad to that killer....
and there is no way SWF use information mate perk like kindred , aftercare, bound... because they already know what to do to fight killer without information perk...
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I keep mentioning it in almost every SWF thread I can find that we need to have a lobby indicator for SWF groups, and then reward the Killer and Solo survivors who play against or with them with bonus points.
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The players can do a lot to ruin the atmosphere of the game. How many killers play with brightness maxed out?
Are you honestly enjoying yourself with burned out retinas and every graphics setting on low so it looks like an your average 3D game circa 1999?
Honestly solo is pretty balanced. Swf needs a penalty system despite being in bad taste for punishing someone for doing well. But the trade-off could be growing rewards. More shards or bloodpoints mebbe?
Or just flat out nerfing copypasted loadouts. Maybe after the first ds, then second person using it is less effective and so forth? Adrenaline has a random chance of not activating if 4 people have it? Would add a layer of strategy to loadouts.
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I don't think a bp multiplier bonus of sorts is a good solution to the problem, it just seems like a lazy bandaid. It is kinda like admitting that this is bs, here have some bp if you deal with it.
The problem can only be solved once BHVR finally takes a look at it, without any bs. It is sad that like so much of mechanics, perks gets nullified via swf. The percentages of swf who actually do play the game that way, just hammer gens and get out doesn't matter. Nurse basekit was changed because people saw god nurse's everywhere when in fact the percentage of god nurses is way lower.
There is a balance issue with swf. As long as BHVR act like "well most just want to have fun and dont do that" because they are lazy to tackle the problem. I don't know how to solve it maybe another objective for survivors would be a good thing, increasing gen times or the amount of gens is boring for survivors.
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Ok but those who are SWAT teams wont find killer so if they inflate it.
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Nope as I said trillions of time I play to have fun if a solo guy or killer doesnt have fun why they play the game?
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At last someone who uses the brain!
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I think it would be better if they lowered the requirements slightly when facing a swf. Triple Bloodpoints is a bit excessive though anything that'll give me more points I'll take lol
The 2 items thing I can't agree at all with. First off you never stated if your talking about only a 4 man swf. Secondly that just makes swf teams play more meta builds. My mates and me like to play meme builds and they require us using items. This change would lower our options for meme games and encourage us to play more meta builds.
For me I always said the game should have their own comms added. Then buff killers accordingly to compensate for this. There's no point the devs punishing swf teams when they:
- Might not be good enough
- Might not actually be using comms
Also the must nerf object. My idea was to have it share the killers and survivor aura to each other every minute for 3/4/5 seconds. This way it would be pointless for a swf to run it since the information is too limited. Whereas a new player can use it's information in a helpful way.
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So you don't want people to play with their friends or what?
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Error in logic.
If you think nothing is wrong with SWF, and you also think that messing with SWF would have significant impact on the game, you are making an error in logic, since those two positions are diametrically opposed.
The most common SWF teams are 2 man and 3 man, not 4 man, as you correctly pointed out. This means that one to two other players are not SWF, and those players are the ones that are likely killed. Hopefully you have the critical thought to understand that this is an obvious problem with reporting kill rates and how they can be inflated by SWF.
As you can see here, the issue with SWF is twofold, both on killers and solo survivors.
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this is prertty much my view on it. Yes it decimates the balance of the game and is extremely unfair... but its quite rare for a 4 man swf at least for me. And even rarer for them to actually focus gens. I do occasionally have an absolutely miserable match against an obvious swf with OoO.
I do think gen speeds are a problem. Heck I just completed a gen in 47 seconds flat on blood lodge. If we balanced around what the upper echelon of players are capable of gen speeds would have been tripled by now and Nurse would have been completely reworked.
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more bloodpoints wont make the match more enjoyable for the killer
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this.
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Tacked on? It was planned from the beginning and only delayed 3 weeks after the game was released- due to technical issues with implementing it. Companies who make multi player games in this day and age aren't usually unaware of the fact that most people will voice chat with each other if they're able to play together, and BHVR is no exception.
Pre-game chat also completely enables survivors in a lobby to add each other on outside voice chats if they so wish- which further relieves BHVR of the work of adding their own native voice chat.
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I play with my brightness turned up because the game’s default brightness is too dark to be enjoyable on some maps. The Game’s lower level and Yamaoka’s estate in particular are examples where I literally can’t see anything in large chunks of the map and frankly running into walls and stuff I can’t see is frustrating, not fun. Therefore I turn the brightness up enough so I can at least make out the outlines of things in those areas.
So yes, I’m honestly enjoying the game significantly more with the brightness turned up and I feel like it improves the atmosphere on those ridiculously dark parts of the maps since I can actually see them.
P.S. Until this last patch I had been playing on Ultra, but due to frame rate issues from the new graphics I’ve had to start playing on Low. It’s a little unfortunate since the game looks a little worse on low but the stutter was pretty awful on the higher settings so I’m stuck at Low for now. It doesn’t look that bad though and the frame rate is smooth so it’s still fun on Low at least.
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If it helps devs have confirmed the stuttering is an issue they're actively working on and hope to have fixed by the hotfix so you could go back to higher graphics soon.
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The main small balance fix I kind of hope they consider is revamping Object of Obsession. At the moment that perk is ok if you are solo but on comms it’s mind of broken. There’s a reason so many swf players have at least one Object included in their perks compared to the solo players.
One possibility would be to keep the killer being able to see the Object as its downside but replace the survivor seeing the killer with a different strong buff instead. For instance, something like
Object of Obsession - You have an increased chance of being the Obsession. The killer can see your aura if you are further than 30 meters from them and looking in their direction. You have a 15/25/35% increased action speed on gen repair, healing, hook rescue and vaults.
You could tweak the exact numbers above up or down to balance it out, but the gist is you get a great buff on your actions but the killer will tend to know where you are so it comes with risk. This buff would help solo and swf survivors pretty evenly though, so it would still be a decent perk solo but not overpowered on comms.
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Yep, hopefully that will fix the problem I’m having and I can turn it back up. 🙂
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I believe the devs don’t agree with the people who think SWF is that big of an issue.
Let’s be real, some people on these very forums think that a SWF is a guaranteed win, which is beyond true. A slight advantage? Sure. OP? Hardly.
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+1 this idea
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on which part I said I dont want other people play with friends I said I wanna have fun not BP
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do you have a recent source meaning this year and is it aimed at red ranks
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In my brain BP = heppy but i can understand your point of view.
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okay lets give x100000 BP but SWF can repair gens and open door one touch.You wont matter having 30 secs game having x 100000 BPs
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Playing with friends is not the problem it's just the way it is implemented.
The game would work way better if it was like Friday the 13th in that everyone joins a single lobby and then someone is randomly picked to be the killer. I play on KYF all the time and we all have a great time. Granted though we do ban mori and new parts but asside from that playing with friends is fun.
The main problem with SWF is the people who use it are toxic af. They don't use it to have fun playing the game they use it to have fun bullying the killer and I'm probably repeating what alot of people have already heard/said but Youtubers are the main culprits who encourage this.
I'm pretty certain the only Youtuber who doesn't promote toxic behaviour is Tru3Talent and im gonna get alot of flak for just mentioning him.
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Yeah, but it would be something.
I'd say far more than slight. A group, coordinating on voicechat can basically run rings around a killer, especially with Object of Obsession - which I see nearly every game now. It's basically a wall hack for one player, and with voicechat it means wallhacks for the entire party.
I completely understand the urge to play with friends. But the game just...isn't set up for it. Too many things that work fine for solo players but sort of break things in a full group.
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So you guys want the game to be fair but don't want to give anything in return citing your own fun above everything else? This is that dog with the ball comic. NO GIVE ONLY THROW.
Friday the 13th had a fun feature that if you grabbed a walkie talkie you could talk to other players. Useless because party chat. Also you could go into games with one of your friends becoming Jason. The favortism was disgusting.
I watched someone play Resident Evil 2, again with brightness maxed out. They were never surprised by anything. That's fun I guess? But leaves nothing to the imagination.
DBD has player abilities that give them individual boons. You're forcing them to nerf it by not being flexible. Then shocked pikachu face when they do. What a joke.
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in a week I’ve gotten one match with someone with OoO and they weren’t even in SWF. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but just sharing my experience with such groups.
I do get SWF consistently though, but I have no issues with them because I feel like the game is at a point where you can beat these type of survivors. Most of them get super altruistic which isn’t optimal for them.
I just don’t think it’s as much of a big deal as many here make it sound. We would see many more red rank killers struggling for sure. Also, it’s not like we haven’t had updates which have sort of debuffed SWF groups. You have Oblivious status which is IMO a debuff directed at SWF teams. Also many other tracking perks with wallhack mechanics have been added.
No one realistically (even with OoO)sits there narrating every action the killer does. I don’t think they would be able to because many times killers will start to do one thing and quickly switch targets or decide to do something unpredictable.
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It's not just OoO (although I'll have to start clipping my end-of-game stuff to show you how often I see the damn thing. It's certain perks, when run together in a coordinated group that makes life genuinely unpleasant.
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Again, SWF comms should be one perk slot down for every person in the lobby. The empty slots would be filled the "SWF perk", the one that allows for survivors to communicate across the Fog.
I would be more willing to play with and against SWF that way.
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How would this be enforced? Dunno about other platforms, but on Xbox the party chat is entirely separate from any game being played. Heck we can even be playing different games. And a few years back i believe Microsoft mandated any game they accept cannot interfere with the party chats in any way. What could the devs do even if they wished?
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