Should Legion get a buff?
Let's face it, Legion is not that great. Sure they can secure a kill or maybe even two but to get a three or four k game requires a whole series of mistakes by the survivors while you need to play perfectly. At the current state in time Legion is a low/low-mid tier killer, especially at ranks 5 and below. Now sure, Legion can get those 4k games but so can every other killer and most of them can do it so much more frequently. They only need a small buff to place them in mid tier, Legion deserves at least that much considering how hard it is to use them effectively.
Not to mention that the backstory of Legion is one of the more interesting and fun backstories to read through. An intimidating killer with a highly creative and enjoyable backstory and a fun ability to use that in reality is not very intimidating and has one the lowest lethality's in the game considering their ability cannot down anyone, can't push the deep wound timer forward and is entirely defeated by just not healing. All it takes is the survivors not wasting time healing and instead spending that time doing gens and all of a sudden they get more generators done and make your ability completely useless.
Suggested options for a Legion buff:
- Attacking someone already in deep wound with Feral Slash reduces their deep wound timer by 15%
- Movement speed increase from 4.6m/s to either 4.65m/s or 4.7m/s
- Hitting a survivor outside of Feral Frenzy drains 1/3 or 1/4 of the power gauge instead of half
- If Feral Frenzy ends without any survivors having been hit the fatigue time is halved
- Lunge distance increased by 0.1/0.2 meters.
- Terror Radius decreased by 4 - 6 meters.
These are some suggestions for a small buff to Legion that would not instantly make them a high tier killer by themselves but would still help to pull Legion out of the poor performance ditch they are currently trapped in. These suggestions are not intended to all be done at once, they are a list of separate ideas that could be paired with others from the list. Of course these are not the only possible buffs but they are a few of them.
Should Legion get a buff? 73 votes
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Comments
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No, Legion should not get buffed
Legion should get a full out rework in the same line as Freddy rather than a buff.
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Yes, Legion should get a large buff
Idk what would be considered small or large for a lot of people, but he needs a lot of his restrictions/penalties lifted and another small add-on pass. Franks Tape and Stab-Wounds study just collect dust and waste BP when they're in the way of something else I want. For very-rare add-ons (or any add-ons for that matter) that really should not be the case. The range add-ons also need to be replaced.
I would not be opposed to another rework however, you know, assuming it goes well. The fact that you can out run them by running in a straight lane with just a little distance to start is a little much, so you could probably increase his speed as well.
Post edited by MrPenguin on2 -
Yes, Legion should get a large buff
A survivor can outrun the Legion for the entirety of their power if the survivor and Legion run forward in a straight line with at least 12 meters between them.
For reference, the Demogorgon's shred covers a distance of 11 meters.
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Yes, Legion should get a large buff
Yeah I usually tell people that if hes about a killer shack or more away you can outrun him, not even mentioning exhaustion perks. Its a little ridiculous imo.
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I don't even think what he needs is a buff I think he needs a rework that changes his ability. I'm of the opinion that it's fundamentally flawed and that the whole "injuring people super quickly / start chases but not being able to end them" is terrible to begin with, especially now with the new perk Desperate Measures which increases healing speeds the more people that are injured.
That's literally Legion's entire whole shtick and now there's a really decent perk out there that is both super good on its own, as well as is a direct counter to his power in the same way that small game directly counters Trapper, Iron Will counters Spirit, etc. so on and so forth. Legion isn't even good enough to warrant having a perk that counters him directly but it exists now, so too late for that.
But let me clarify I'm not saying the perk shouldn't exist I think it's a great perk and I would truly and honestly take great perks over the crappy niche, situational perks we've been getting for both survivors and killers for a few chapters in a row now. Chapter 17 introduced some of the best all around perks out of any chapter in a long, long time. I am saying though, that a perk like desperate measures perfectly highlights the kind of fundamental flaws which exist in his ability to begin with by its very nature.
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Yes, Legion should get a small buff
So I don't really know what's small or large (like someone else mentioned), but I definitely think Legion just needs some love. Honestly, I would love if they had an iri add-on that allowed them to down someone. Blight has that add-on of having an instadown on his last bounce charge or whatever the phrasing is. What if Legion could have an add-on that was like "After three successful hits in Frenzy, the 4th hit will automatically put the survivor into the dying state" or something to that effect? It gives a bit of lethality to the power, but the person playing Legion has to work for it, and there's always the chance that there aren't enough survivors in the area to proc it, so it wouldn't be totally OP.
I also think the buttons that add status effects to survivors should apply to all survivors hit in frenzy, not just the survivors after the initial hit.
Also totally agree with not having the power gauge deplete as much as it does (if any at all) on a successful basic attack. Why should I get punished for getting a hit if my power's still recharging? Wasting time for it to come back up isn't smart, and then I can't down a person with it anyway, so that seems ridiculous. Or at least not having it deplete if the basic attack puts the survivor into the dying state.
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Yes, Legion should get a large buff
OP here, my thoughts on the matter are that Legion needs a large buff or possibly even a small rework, but honestly I would be fine with just a small buff to at least make them somewhat competitive. The biggest issue is just how easily Legion’s Feral Frenzy can be defeated, turning them into just an M1 killer for 90% of their matches.
To start with, getting a hit with Feral Slash doesn’t actually aid you very much in getting a down. Sure the survivor ends up injured but you are forced to exit Feral Frenzy to actually perform the down. This means you need to go through the fatigue animation and the survivor can gain enough distance on you to almost always make it to a pallet. You would be better off having not activated your ability at all and just M1’d twice as you wouldn’t need to worry about the fatigue state. The deep wound doesn’t do anything either since it lasts for so long and doesn’t drain while running. That means if you do hit a survivor with Feral Slash not only can you not down them without going through fatigue but the status effect it inflicts is pointless as if you chase them then the timer wont drain and if you don’t chase them they can just mend. Given Legion’s other ability Killer Instinct the latter is most often what happens. In the end you are left with a team that has 2, maybe even 3 injured survivors that all completely counter your ability by holding a button for several seconds. Many survivors just immediately start mending in your face because they know there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. If you leave to chase other survivors and actually gain value out of your abilities they just mend deep wound. If you stay and pull yourself out of Feral Frenzy you lose the value of your ability and they can just run away to the closest pallet while you are stuck in fatigue not needing to care at all about deep wound because it does nothing while they are being chased and may as well not be there at all.
Should you instead try to spread the damage to the other survivors and use your ability to it’s maximum the first survivor you hit will immediately remove deep wound. Then after scoring another hit or maybe even two you commit chase to one survivor. While you are chasing the other survivors you hit will just heal their deep wound and nullify your power while the one you chase will not have their deep wound timer tick down since they will be sprinting. It’s the exact same scenario as the end of last paragraph except now the survivor team has maybe 1 or 2 people injured. If they are smart they just wont heal at all, spending that saved time getting extra progress on generators while you are still trying to catch up to the one survivor inflicted with a pointless effect after your fatigue state let them get to a pallet loop. In the end you get one hook and they get two or three generators. That is just terrible efficiency all because Legion’s ability does absolutely nothing to injured survivors, hence the biggest counter to Legion of them all: Don’t heal. Feral Slash is worthless on injured survivors, Killer Instinct only activates once you have hit a survivor in Feral Frenzy and all it does it help you locate survivors and if you somehow manage to catch them and still have time left in Feral Frenzy you have the exact same problems you had with the first injured survivor you caught.
Now sure, the biggest counter to Legion means that survivors can become a one hit down which some may argue gives him extra lethality. This is not false, but compared to other killers who can also one hit down this ‘extra lethality’ quickly becomes overshadowed. Michael Myers can apply exposed on any survivor in any health state for 60 seconds. Ghost Face can apply exposed on any survivor in any health state for 45 seconds. Leatherface can one hit down any survivor in any health state at any time he wants. Hillbilly can one hit down any survivor in any health state at any time he wants. Oni can one hit down ant survivor in any health state for 45 seconds while simultaneously being able to chase down survivors at high speed and go cross map easily. To say that because the survivor team not healing gives Legion a big edge is nonsense. At thar point he become an M1 killer and there is not a single killer excluding Nurse who can win as an M1 killer.
As is hopefully clear by now Legion is quite severely underpowered in comparison the vast majority of other killers with his ability easily able to be wasted by a team that only half knows what they are doing and also just running in a straight line. The original post has a lot of suggested small buffs, so instead here are some larger buffs and possible small reworks that would help to pull Legion up to a competitive level:
- The deep wound timer drains at half speed while running
- Legion (or killers in general) can see the deep wound timer draining
- Attacking an already injured survivor with Feral Slash starts deep wound with a x2 drain speed OR attacking an already injured survivor with Feral Slash depletes the power gauge and downs the survivor.
- Killer Instinct activates with Feral Frenzy. Its detection radius starts at 0 and expands to its maximum size over the course of 5 seconds
- Fatigue time is shorter when exiting Feral Frenzy via pressing the ability button than when missing an attack or landing an attack on an already deep wounded survivor
- Hitting an survivor with Feral Slash who already has deep wound doubles the drain rate of the ability gauge instead of immediately draining it entirely
- Feral Slash hits count as basic attacks
- Base movement speed increased to 4.7m/s or 4.8m/s
- When not in a chase OR at all times Feral Frenzy has a movement speed of 5.5m/s
As with the original post these are not suggested to be all implemented together, these are several separate ideas complied into one list.
Hopefully after reading through this post you are well acquainted with the major shortcomings of Legion and some of the available options there are to patch those shortcomings. If all of these ideas got implemented at once Legion would beyond a doubt be too strong, all it will take is careful consideration and implementation of two or three and Legion will prove to be a killer able to compete with most of the others.
Post edited by DontleaveSayorihangi on2 -
No, Legion should not get buffed
Their ability is holding the game hostage rather than killing the survivors. If anything, I think they need a full rework.
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Yes, Legion should get a small buff
This one change Is all I really need out of Legion.
Either A: For each survivor you hit while in Feral Frenzy, decrease the cooldown duration of Feral Frenzy
Or B: Change Joey's Mixtape to considerably and change cold dirt to the above mention change.
This is one of the few changes I can see be fair, but practical.
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Yes, Legion should get a small buff
A couple things about what you are saying. Yes I agree with legions shortfalls, but some of the changes suggested wouldn't be practical. Increasing his movement speed to be the fastest killer in the game would overcompensate, there would be no reason he should be the fastest base killer. Also, downing a survivor with feral frenzy and depleting the power gauge would make him a completely brainless and overpowered killer. Chases would be faster than nurse and spirit because there is no guessing involved, just ridiculously fast chasing and downing, with no windows or pallets to stop him. Not a viable option at all. Then his detection range increasing radially is a bad idea. That means that (for his already short power) there is almost half of the time where the detection is completely useless unless you're already on top of the other survivors. The rest of the points seem like good improvements to the killer, One of the things he desperately needs is to be able to practically use his power for traversing the map, without being so severely punished. Like having his fatigue much shorter if he doesn't hit any survivors. That and a LOT of add on reworks would make him stronger
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Yes, Legion should get a small buff
I feel like what you listed might bring back the old Legion. This needs to be avoided at all costs. I actually made a discussion about it in feedback couple of days ago. Link here if anyone is interested: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/202731/feral-frenzy-change-proposal#latest
This in short: Feral Frenzy fatique mechanic overhaul. Five add-on reworks.
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Yes, Legion should get a large buff
Idk how many times it needs to be said, but Legion would need either a huge buff or yes, a complete rework. The fact that legion is multiple characters w differing personalities and yet they all play the same is jus... a wasted opportunity. Imagine if upon buying Legion w the 9000 iridescent shards you get given the choice between buying one of four Legions. That’d be mad.
honestly I think it’s so sad how Legion got nerfed into the ground and into a grave just because survivors got salty about Legion being able to catch up to them and vault their pallets. Legion is probably one of the best original characters on DBD (in terms of their in depth lore and simple yet great designs) and to see them so crippled is just sad. As a new player I was so surprised that Legion’s special ability doesn’t even down the player! That is crazy! ESPECIALLY when you compare him to other killers like Leatherface, Hillbilly, Oni, or heck, even Doctor (although no one seems to complain about him to my disbelief). I’m not saying I have a problem with those killers, nearly drawing comparison to how powerful they are in comparison to Legion. All because survivors were so salty that they couldn’t mind game and toy with a killer as easily and would have to come up with a new tactic.
AT THE LEAST Legion’s feral frenzy should down someone after a third strike. I don’t understand how it’s a special ability when you can’t down someone like other killers I mentioned, nor can u do a long ranged attack like using throwing knives. Not to mention how long the cool down is whew what even.
If it was up to me Legion would get a complete rework. Do something more interesting and give each character differing abilities and at least get a voice actor for each character (damn like all they’re doing is breathing is it that hard?). Buff their ability. Seriously do something w Legion cos what devs have done to them now is just SAD.
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Yes, Legion should get a large buff
Legion was a good killer before Thanatophobia was nerfed. Just put on Thanatophobia, Sloppy Butcher, then other perks you may wanna use (like Coulrophobia while using the pink add on where their terror radius while on feral frenzy is the entire map) and you'd most likely get a 3k. But since Thanatophobia got nerfed (or buffed if you look at it differently), Legion needs a massive buff/rework to be A tier.
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Yes, Legion should get a large buff
If rework was an option i'd vote for it but as it currently stands they need a consistency buff from said rework(Its hard to make the power more consistent in its current iteration).
As Legion is strong against average to bad survivors but is borderline a powerless M1 killer against good survivors.
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