So let's stop calling perks crutches.
It's like every perk you run as a survivor is considered a crutch. Whatnso you want me to do put on dark sense? I mean if you wanna call survivor perks crutches so are killers. Arent crutches just anything that helps you?
Either stop calling every good survivor perm a crutch or admit technically every perk I ls a crutch killer or survivor.
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To be fair I was very good at looping then when I played with dead hard for a month it felt like a crutch I needed because without it I will most certainly lose when up against a good killer.
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I was gonna agree with you based on the title, but then you had to make this into a killer vs. survivor thing again and even swapped the roles (there are a lot more survivors calling NOED, etc., crutches than the opposite).
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Killers definitely have crutch perks not gonna name any- UNDYING, RUIN, POP, HAUNTED, CORRUPT, BBQ, SOME MORE THAT I CAN'T REMEMBER. Other than that I guess only survivors only have crutches
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If the perk is available to use then it doesn't matter if you play survivor or killer, those perks are meant to be used and you are at liberty to use whichever you like. We don't all play the same way, some like stealth, some like to be loud, some like certain perks, others hate them.
The best thing to do is try to match them to your play style, or to whatever daily ritual or rift challenge you are doing. But ultimately, play your way and don't let others tell you that you shouldn't use a particular perk - it's your choice..
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It sometimes feels to me that "crutch" is used as an excuse for a loss or poor performance. There's nothing wrong in realising what was done didn't work. Just learn and move on.
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The biggest crutch is dead hard.
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If you can't perform well without perks and have to heavily rely on them then yeah, they're crutches.
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It's not meant to be a killer vs survivor but its there are so many spots calling good perks crutches. There are not as many posts as killers calling every good survivor perk a crutch than someone saying noed.
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Good old press a to outplay. I dont use it I prefer sprint burst.
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Yeah it's not a good term since actual crutches are something that helps you do things you can't do otherwise, like yknow, walk.
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If it's not meant to be a killer vs. survivor thing, then why did you phrase it like one? You didn't just say "Sure, survivors have X, but killers have Y" or whatever, you literally opened a thread to complain about killers and contrasted their behavior with survivors' behavior.
And there are definitely a lot more posts from survivors calling killer perks like NOED, BBQ, Whispers, and so on "crutch perks" than there are killers doing the opposite.
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I never got the idea of calling a perk crutch. Yeah some perks like DS or NOED are extremely annoying to get hit by but there's really nothing bad about running them. They're in the game so anyone can feel free to use them as much as they like.
I personally would do some more fine tuning on most problemtic perks especially on these two perks I mentioned as one of the biggest offenders for both sides. Their ideas are good but execution could use more work.
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His posts are pretty biased as of late, it seems.
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A crutch in this game is rather something you rely too heavily on.
Meaning if you can't play without certain perks,addons,items etc. then that's your crutch.
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While their are crutches on both sides survivor obviously outmatches killer crutches. The only big crutch for killer isnt even a guarantee (noed) as it can turn a losing match into a winning one by itself. Survivors have bt a second chance for unsafe saves. Dead hard press e to outplay. Ds again unsafe save and with unbreakable is just a minute of immortality. Soul guard to protect you when another survivor picks you up in the killers face or you pick yourself up. Deliverance kinda if your team can't save you. The difference between crutches and general perks is the amount of times they reward your mistakes and help you out of bad situations kinda in your control. A perk like whispers helps you find people faster but thats not something the killer can naturally control similar to dark sense with finding gens.Noeds the only real killer perk i know that rewards the killer for playing mediocre.
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Well I think it is rooted in the fact that most survivor perks are FAR more impactful on the outcome of a match than killer perks. Every single second chance perk the survivors bring has the potential to reset the entire game. One unbreakable, one deliverance, one DS, etc can drastically swing the tide of a match. I can't think of any single killer perk that will take you from 0k to 4k, but I can think of plenty of survivor perks that can get you from 4k to 0k.
It is also how incredibly easy they are to use. The killer usually has to work extremely hard to get 3-4 man slugs and the survivors can erase it by holding M1 and equipping a perk. Or pushing spacebar for DS.
Killers do have a handful of crutches to call upon but they are not nearly as good as the survivor ones, and they still typically require some work from the killer to utilize.
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Im biased because I stick up for my survivor mains. Bro I play both sides and this forum is quite biased.
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I'm a survivor main and I've noticed (and pointed out) that you're usually just bashing killers. I don't want you "sticking up for me" if you turn everything into a survivor vs. killer issue like you've done with this issue.
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There is nothing to say about killers because even if survivors claim those perks are crutches they really arent and will get shutdown by killer mains.
Survivor pov isnt really listened to on this forum so I preface it as a survivor main because damn it's always this is a crutch that's a crutch.
Call it a complaint but I'm just saying what I think. This forum is killer sided.
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Yeah you may be a survivor main but you sure as hell ignore the fact survivors are getting the short end of the stick. Also arent you the same guy what tried to justify a mod closing the console optimization thread? The same pc player who doesnt understand problems and trying to start stuff?
I dont bash killers and if I come off like that it's not what I mean.
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As I pointed out before, the forum is killer sided for the same reason firefighters are biased toward dry, hot areas.
The survivor POV is definitely listened to on this forum, when it's reasonable. Source: My POV is listened to on this forum. I didn't get all my upvotes for no reason. However, when survivors say certain killers should be deleted or that they DC when killers yell "boo", they rightly get shut down.
Unreasonable killer complaints also get shut down just as quickly as unreasonable survivor complaints. For example, killers demanding that the hatch be removed or that keys be deleted.
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Dude, I only die when one of three things happen:
- The killer is just overwhelmingly better than I am. Sometimes they're just better and there's no shame in admitting that.
- I ######### up. Everyone ######### up from time to time and that's alright.
- Someone else ######### up. Due to the asymmetrical nature of this game, if one survivor massively ######### up, everyone else is #########.
Meanwhile, as a killer, you can lose because you chased someone for a little too long or because someone had DS or because someone found a key.
Survivors are not getting the short end of the stick. It only feels that way because they've been used to being the power role and are now becoming more balanced.
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Well if you rely on a perk to do well it's a crutch. I use Iron Will, Spinechill and Whispers way too much and can barely play without them, making them a crutch perk to me. To some people (like myself) DS isn't a crutch perk simply because they don't rely on it constantly or even use it at all.
So, to sum it all up, just because it's a crutch perk to a certain player, doesn't necessarily mean it's overpowered.
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Dude a survivor made a post asking for advice on how to counter a certain killer and he to shut it down due to backlash. You tend to have a more killer sided view which is cool whatever but in a killer sided forum that gets upvotes.
Its obvious unreasonable things get shutdown but there are comments or posts about how survivors want easy wins or dont want to change their playstyle? How about the comments that say survivors wanna bully killer in swf? That stuff doesnt get commented on its accepted.
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Dude a survivor made a post asking for advice on how to counter a certain killer and he to shut it down due to backlash.
I'd have to read the thread to see what happened, but sometimes ######### reach a thread before reasonable people can get to it. Happens on every forum and it has nothing to do with who mains what.
You tend to have a more killer sided view which is cool whatever but in a killer sided forum that gets upvotes.
No, I'm just reasonable. Being reasonable doesn't mean supporting two sides in the same comment, nor does it mean being a contrarian. It means looking at things objectively and making statements based on that, even if those statements tend more toward one side than the other. Because, in almost every single case, one side is really worse than the other. It's just how the world works.
Its obvious unreasonable things get shutdown but there are comments or posts about how survivors want easy wins or dont want to change their playstyle? How about the comments that say survivors wanna bully killer in swf? That stuff doesnt get commented on its accepted.
As a former member of a SWF bully squad back before SWF was even a thing, I can guarantee you that most SWF groups are sore losers who bully killers in the trial and post-game chat.
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Saying crutch is just another way of saying second chance, however, there are situations where survivors heavily rely on perks to win which 100% validates them being called a crutch. Survivors do quite often do plays they couldn't due to a perk they have which is fine.
What isn't fine is not getting punished for a bad play because you can hit a skill check or hold down the recovery button.
Survivor perks like DS aren't fully a crutch as they have uses that are quite validated (such as countering tunneling), but when you start using it to hook bomb or get gen progress it becomes a crutch.
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Like someone else said earlier, perks in themselves aren't crutches. They become that when you start to rely on them too much. E. G. Survivor gets so used to iron will that they continue to try the same mind games in chases even without it and end up getting caught in seconds; killer gets so used to bbq that if they don't see an aura they have no idea where to go
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You named 3 things for both no argument there DS is only bad when you are losing otherwise thags a stretch. A DS stun isnt the decider of a 4k for christ sake it's 5 second stun.
Power role argument yikes. I'm fine with the game being balanced and the devs helping killers who need necessary buffs but they re neglecting survivors. Every update is a nerf to survivors buff to killers. Which is fine but there are no qol or the nerfs are downright stupid.
You have things like losing add ons on escape despite lower bp gains, polluted blood webs, survival points are the worst offender of the bp gains. Items being nerfed tot he ground things like bnp still being ultra rare despite the fact its more green to purple rarity. Odd bulb being ultra rare despite being useless and polluting blood webs.
Solo survivor still being a nightmare. Things like these are neglected. When was the last survivor buff. So many killers acting like the devs are out to get them when every patch is nearly a new buff.
I guess that's a fair answer but still when a post is made by a survivor it's always some type of rude person trying to shut them down or it's always some comment about how survivors want easy wins.
I could beg to differ on you being reasonable as you have said...questionable things kn the past that are far from objective view. Yeah I've seen you make reasonable and valid points your comments just tend to be in favor of killer. If you comment on my post on you almost always disagree.
That's your swf bully group that's just an assumption with no real proof so no comment.
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A crutch perk is a perk that carries you to a win you wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Yes I understand that is the whole point of perks. To give you an advantage at winning BUT some perks do way too good a job at doing that. I get why survivors would want to run these perks because I mean why wouldn't you? You would only be gimping yourself by not running them.
However it's very unfun to feel like you got outperked. You're playing Nurse on a map like Lerys and a survivor is constantly breaking LOS so you make a great prediction blink and land right on them put nope dead hard. That great read you made didn't mean anything. I get that you can bait it out but that's not possible in every scenario and that goes for every killer.
You're playing against a good swf that is focused on gens and you know that you won't be able to 3 hook everyone without using any "scummy" tactics. Well tough luck they have unbreakable to counter slugging, Ds and bt counter tunneling (and then some), and dead hard to fix any mistake they make or negate any good play on the killers part in chase.
That's why these perks are disliked so strongly. They carry bad players and they make teams of good players harder to play against more than they need to be. Most of the killer meta perks reward you for making good plays, have strong effects that only last a small portion of the match, or have small effects that last throughout the match. You also have to take into account that it's 4 killer perks agaisnt 16 survivor perks so naturally killer perks should be stronger. That being said you're still entitled to run whatever you want.
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crutches are perks that give you an advantage for doing nothing, crutches aren't perks that reward skillful play
Example Pop rewards killers for hooking survivors by letting them slowdown survivor objective
Example of a crutch, Deadhard gives you a free second chance in chase for pressing a button with little to no input or counterplay from the killer side
Example of yet another not a crutch, bbq rewards the killer for doing their objective of hooking survivors by giving them information they can use to start another chase
Example of another crutch Unbreakable punishes the killer for slugging which is usually the optimal play for the killer with no input needed for the survivor to benefit from it
As you can see more survivor perks are crutches because they are rewards for nothing while most killer perks aren't because they are a reward for skillful play
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And dead hard rewards me for bad plays. #victoryroyale
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NOED is the only crutch perk, everything else is whatever. If you use NOED, you should feel bad.
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Im gonna preface this by saying that I play both killer and survivor equally, so don't say I'm picking sides here. As a high rank killer (5-3) I see about the same 5 perks every game, unbreakable, ds, dead hard, iron will, adrenaline. When I play against killers it's a lot more diverse, what Im trying to say is that survivors rely on about 5-9 perks to win, and these are mostly perks with no workaround
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Do you even understand that certain streamers in the past, used certain perks, not because they are good but because they tilt survivors and they throw a tantrum "!!!1 wahwahwah you used x crutch you are a trash killer!!"? When do killers call survivor perk crutches actually? They live with it as every game is full of them, there is no point to even say something against as you will see them most of the time anyway.
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Love it how many people say that crutch perks are perks you can’t win without, but then for the most part only survivor perks are mentioned except for noed (as usual). Isn’t this forum the place where “slow down perks are needed because gen speed is too fast”?
kek
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i would say stridor on spirit and infectios on killers like oni or nurse are crutches.
stridor removes every mindgame on a already strong and not hard to play killer.
infectios atm with no cooldown and combined with monitor and abuse is an extrem strong combo on killers who are already on the top in the right hands and buys the win for less skilled players.
noed rewards the killer for failing his objective and is often used by bad killers but it has some counterplay (map dependent though)
ebony mori is a crutch too, since its basicly a free 3/4k against most survivors, if the killer isnt too bad.
some addons like iri hatches are crutches too in my eyes.
Dead hard can be a crutch in the right hands, but has some counterplay, like baiting it out, waiting etc.... if your not end up exhausted on the ground. high ping survivors seems to benefit more from it.
and of course builds like dstrike, unbreakable and soul guard in endgame scenarios. those gives free escapes while the killer did nothing wrong. dstrike could need some nerfs like expirering faster while the survivor is doing gens or not working once the gates are open or something. BT is a crutch with open games too.
these are all perks which are mostly fine in the early or midgame but in the lategame it has no or very little counterplay and thats very unfair for the killer.
keys are a crutch too and can save 3 survivors after they played themself into an unwinnable 3gen situation.
medkits with the purple or pink addon count as crutches too and can decide over kills or no kills.
problem is, when those crutches are used by very good players and made the match too easy for one side.
and that players boost themselfs into the red ranks with it and fail there against good players. i had a killer with 60h at rank 4 and he mentioned that he only played spirit. of course they have no chance against survivors with thousands of hours. and than they get frustated and than the need to play with moris on strong killers to keep their rank... but they will not learn much. had some matches this weekend where the killer got his first down after 4-5 gens were done. followed often by a dc cause one of us runs detectives hunch to get noed out of the way.
same with survivors. how many red rank survivors just sit with urban evasion in some bushes and kill with "doing nothing" the other survivors against a good killer.
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and i see mostly pop, bbq, ruin + undying, noed and corrupt intervention when i play survivor^^
the most common spirit build is pop, bbq, stridor and noed or nurses calling.
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Pretty much this. Perks are supposed to be accents to certain play styles. But some in this game are very powerful to the point it's like a new ability. But herein lies the problem. Perks are a massive part of this game. They're fun to use and add a lot of replayibility because of how strong they can be. And this is needed in a game with only one mode and very few objectives. They have to find that sweet spot of tuning a perk so it's still fun but balanced. Otherwise you risk taking away such an important factor of the game. Something that keeps you playing. It's a difficult situation.
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I think there are some crutches on both sides. For killers, NOED is an obvious crutch, because it rewards bad plays. Bamboozle is the "I don't know how to mindgame" perk. The enduring and spirit fury combo punishes survivors for stunning the killer.
For survivors, there is DS, which is fine if it stops tunneling, but it is a crutch when it is used against people who don't tunnel. Dead hard punishes the killer for making a good mindgame, and it feels like BS. Sprint burst is less of a crutch, but it allows the survivor to almost always be in a good position, so you can't punish them for being out of position.
There's nothing wrong with running these perks, I just understand why some people call these perks crutches.
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Go perkless for ultimate crutch fee hard mode.
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No.
Dead Hard just gives survivors a get out of jail free card for any misread they make in loops.
DS+Unbreakable means you've got two 60 second windows per match in which the killer can't even try to pressure you.
BT makes it completely unnecessary to be smart when you're going for a save, since you can just go in dick first and get both people out anyways.
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Any perk you rely heavily on to get you results is a crutch. For example if are terrible at looping and run DS or Dead Hard because you want to use it to fix mistakes at a loop then they are crutches. Same concept as NoeD, where the killer relies on the perk to win them the match due to the fact they are not good at applying pressure.
In real life, if you have trouble walking you rely on a crutch to allow you to walk easier. Do you need it? Maybe not, but relying on it makes your situation easier. The crutch is letting you get from point A to point B faster, so its not a bad thing, but you should recognize that you do rely on it to get results.
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Nevermind :)
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Becuase they are the best perks there is literally no reason to use the rest of the survivor perks they do not compare and the devs neglect buffing them.
Not to mention stuff like DS is required these days.
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No perk is a crutch.
I also believe all perks are viable.
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I can agree with you on this deadhead is pretty crutch that's why I reframe from running it, it doesn't help my loops. I havent used DS is like a week I have been preferring object.
Bamboozle for killer it's very annoying if the map you have has not many windows and you can chain them together.
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Legit none of these are crutch perks
The only killer perk that's a crutch is Noed
And why do people even complain about bbq anyway? It literally encourages killers to not camp and not tunnel
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Yeah, I dislike bamboozle even as a killer main tbh. It is pretty badly designed, since it encourages killers to just vault windows, and not even attempt to mindgame them.
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Yup it makes them very predictable just insta vault that and this. My biggest problem is some maps have no windows like thompsons house. Had a bamboozle bubba couldnt do much because there was not enough tikes to chain.
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I can't think of a survivor perk that is a crutch. However, any perk that slows the game down, provides a wallhack with simple ease, stops the opponent objective from being completed, removes objective progress, or hinders the objective from being completed are crutches. No survivor perk helps them complete gens faster or rewards them, especially in correlation to how the killer plays.
Killers have a lot of crutches and they use them every game.
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