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Deathslinger has no counterplay?
Lot of people be sayin' the Slinger ain't got no counter.
Wait, this fella here?
This guy? The gun-tootin, harpoon-spearin, deep spittin, quick scope'n, violin stringin, gee-tar playin, Micah's redemption, Texas Dallas Cowboy?
In my opinion, he's quite fair in theory. Allow me to explain.
First, we look onto his Pro's:
- His weapon gives him a bit of range for use, thus closing the gap between him and the Survivor before reeling them towards his chuckling grasp.
- His terror radius is small, granting him a stealthy advantage at least when it comes to the Survivors' reaction speed. Harder to react when the Killer is much closer than you presume.
- His music conceals his terror radius. A heartbeat is associated with a terror radius, the louder it beats the closer the Killer is. Deathslinger's Terror Radius comes with a song of the wild wild west (Enter Will Smith with shades) which in turn 'disguises' the heartbeat as it is more difficult to hear. No heartbeat, no idea of proximity for certain. He could be a bit far, or taking aim from around the corner.
- His bullet has the tiniest hitbox. I've only seen amazing Deathslinger's land a shot through the Killer Shack or through teeny-tiny cracks within junk obstacles in the Azarov Maps. This can cut both ways as it is just as easy to miss the shot, but I placed it as a pro in this case. It is quite sneaky if you can land it, and a sharp aim will cut some chases short. *Snicker Snicker*
- Windows are your best friend. Who needs Bamboozle when you got a gun? Sure, the gun may have been made by Scorpion from Mortal Kombat but it gets the job done. Shoot em at a window vault, reel yourself towards that window barrier and SMACK! Free hits galore! Just like the Huntress, you want them Survivors to vault them windows.
Next, we look at the Cons:
- You are so sloooooooooooooooowwwwwww (Echo) Yes it's true, anyone can tell you his first con is that movement speed. The average Killer runs at 115% Movement Speed. Some Killers move slower at 110% Movement Speed, while all Survivors run at 100%. Though you still have the speed advantage, you will feel that missing 5% when you find yourself struggling to catch up to your objective.
- Your gun ain't got no range! Okay to be clear, it has decent range at about 18 meters tops to land that shot. However, 18 meters is not 24 meters, and like The Executioner's Punishment of the Damned attack you will morn those moments when you would aim for the attack, but they are just one meter too far.
- The Deathslinger is a tall Killer, his height hinders him during the chase as it is possible in certain loops with high obstacles for you to see the top of his hat still, this would injure his "mind-game" potential. For those who do not understand, a "Mind-Game" is when a Killer decides to hide the red stain they carry in front of them by facing away from where they are attempting to ambush you. Usually this is why some Killers perform a Michael Jackson Moonwalk when they are being looped, leaving us laughing as we get struck by a smooth criminal :)
- That gun helps with the chase, but it don't shoot Generators. Slow speed will bite you hardest when it comes to protecting you Generator. Now that I got a hook, my Pop Goes the Weasel is ready. Just gotta pop a Generator aaaaaalllll the way over there. Welp, I made it but they finished the Gen soon as I got there. I know I'm not alone, and this isn't a unique issue for Deathslinger or even average speed Killers. We've all been there, but the slow Killers gotta fight a little bit harder for map mobility.
- Add-ons, what add-ons? This is the more controversial point here, but I don't think the Deathslinger has good add-ons. Okay well, they are okay but they aren't changing the game by much. Faster reload speed is unanimously agreed to be his best add-ons, although the others aren't bad they aren't too special either. Quicker cooldown for a missed shot? Okay that one is alright. Longer mending time? Eh, I ain't no Legion sweetheart. Smaller Terror Radius while aiming? Basically Furtive Chase but a little better. Not the worst add-ons, but I don't hear nobody mention anything else besides them Warden Keys.
- Ye can shoot em over pallets but... if that pallet is dropped and between you and yer prey? Welp, either break the chain and suffer a stun or let em go and break that pallet. A dropped pallet can stall a Huntress and wound a Deathslinger bad. Be sure to get em before they get you.
- A lot of work just to land a hit! If they a bit far, shoot em, reel em, hit em, reload, repeat. Get's the job done, but that's a lot of work to down your average Survivor. This is why Save The Best For Last is looked as a must have on this here fella, helps cut the time short and make him more effective. But without the Shape's perk, this cowboy gonna be a bit rusty...
The list can go on but you get my point, I think the Deathslinger has plenty of counterplay. He is slow, his range is limited, and a dropped pallet hurts him plenty. Sure, you can't dodge his shot if he pull out the quick scope, but that's the point. Slinger is deadly when he got you on the run, just like a real Texan-er cowboy, I mean!
For Survivors, keep your distance and keep obstacles between you two. In Shelter Woods, trees are your best friend. In Azerov's, use them larger Junk obstacles. He's a big fella, so keep your distance and stay strong on those Generators. Hug those walls, keep them pallets on your side, and if you're healthy don't be afraid of getting injured in the chase. It's when you're hurt that he becomes a true threat.
For Killers, this gunslinger is quite effective in the chase. Don't let the number of Con's fool ya, his Pro's can get some work done with the right plays. Use perks to cover his weaknesses, same as every other Killer. Pallets a bother? Brutal Strength. Wanna cut that chase short? Save The Best For Last. Rabbit season? Monitor and Abuse ya Elmer Fudd lookin' mother fu-
In Conclusion! Thank you guys for giving my homework essay a read. Let me know what you think, does the Deathslinger have no counterplay? I'm sure I missed a thing or two here, so feel free to add your thoughts down below!
Comments
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A lot of players do not have an objective view of the game. They always consider the 'only moment' where his power shines and fail to understand that it compensates for his other weaknesses.
With that said though, his quick scope ability is kinda difficult to deal with for a survivor where looping is the only fun/frustrating thing they can engage in (only place where you don't feel like a chore). If the killer is 4.4 m/s, it means he's slower and he isn't getting to generators fast enough and apply pressure but it gives nothing to the survivors in terms of fun.
They could nerf his ability to zone out survivors and give him a different buff to compensate for him. Not saying he needs to only get nerfed.
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People usually have difficulty reading large posts. A short and crisp post would attract more people.
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Extreme difficulty. Like reading is problematic to everyone on the forums. Like how dare someone expect them to read on a forum.
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I'm sorry, but gen speeds isn't counterplay. And that's what all his counterplay boils down to: genrush the bastard because he can't do anything about it.
The chase is one of the only reasons DbD is even played. Killers that completely dominate aren't good for the games health. It's one of the reasons I love Blight so much: I win the chase if I'm better at chasing and can outhink and outplay the survivor, not because I'm a good aim and negate all else by virtue of bang-chain-smack. I mained Slinger til Blight's release, by the way, so I do know what I'm talking about. As fun as he is to play, he isn't fun to play against because there really isn't any interactivity or chance to show off any form of skill. If the killer is within about 9m and they are a decent shot, you literally cannot do a thing except avoid that situation in the first place, which is unreasonable. Dodge behind a tree? I'm gonna shoot you. Drop a pallet? I'm gonna break it and shoot you, or play the tile and shoot you. Hold W? Bang.
The only counterplay to Slinger is using a macro to break the chain in two seconds. Which is both cheating and stupid.
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Generator speed is not counterplay, I agree. Repairing Generators is basically holding down a button for so-so seconds, repeat for five Generators total and done. I would call that abusing the game's objective haha 😆
I appreciate your response but your counterargument is a bit odd. Deathslinger not being fun to play against is subjective, we each have our tastes and we all have that one Killer we despise going against.
" If the killer is within about 9m and they are a decent shot, you literally cannot do a thing except avoid that situation in the first place, which is unreasonable."
I would say this is entirely reasonable. Killers are meant to be a threat after all, and you will find plenty of Killers who become lethal within 9 meters of proximity to you. Cannibal, Hillbilly, and Oni each have a power which can put you into the dying state instantly. Ghostface and The Shape could stalk and expose you, mimicking the same result. The Huntress who is our original ranged killer is given what one would call a free hit with her hatchet if she were that close to you.
Does this mean we have too many killers that are unfun to play against? That is subjective and I would argue that is not the case.
Does this mean more killers have no counter at such a close range? Yes and no, you can still fight back through different methods. Lockers and Pallets guarentee temporary safety from chainsaws, in fact a pallet is able to counter all of the killers I listed above to a degree. The Huntress can snipe you over the dropped pallet, and the Chainsaw Bros. and Oni could break the Pallet with their power as well. This does not mean the pallet is useless, but it stalls for time and gives you quick relief.
"Dodge behind a tree? I'm gonna shoot you. Drop a pallet? I'm gonna break it and shoot you, or play the tile and shoot you. Hold W? Bang."
All of that is correct to a degree, but you may be ignoring the point of what it means to counter a killer. If you are in a chase, the object is to delay the Killer from successfully downing you for as long as you can. Yes, we would like to escape from the Killer but that is out of our control, if the Killer wants you dead then you will die. This is why tunneling is frowned upon.
Dodging a tree won't guarantee your safety from a Deathslinger, but if you find yourself distant from pallets then yes, utilize them as best as you can. Even if there is a 1% chance of evading that shot, better to take it then to run out in the open. If I drop a pallet and you decide to break it, yes you might take the shot and down me. But by breaking the pallet, you have given me time and distance to search for another pallet or obstacle. I could run left and right in vain hoping you would miss the shot similar to how we counter a Huntress' Hatchet, and if it works then great. If it doesn't, it was worth the effort.
Countering a Killer does not mean escaping them, it means buying your allies time to finish repairing Generators. There are plenty of ways to counter any Killer by studying their strengths and weaknesses. I listed them above which you did not mention, so I assume those are not weaknesses for you yes? If you are a great Deathslinger, than perhaps you are just good at capitalizing on his strengths and so you view him as a more powerful killer then other players would.
There are plenty of ways to counter a Deathslinger. Abuse his slow speed to buy yourself time when he breaks a Generator or Pallet, take cover by any means while maintaining distance from him, be careful if you find yourself under his aim. Although I believe Generator speed is not a counterplay as every Killer can fall victim to this, I will argue and say Deathslinger has more trouble than most Killers when it comes to protecting his Generators due to his slow speed.
I hope I was able to help dissect my perspective and grant you a different view, thank you for the reply 🙂
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Please, show me the evidence that supports you. I've only seen people "counter" bad Slingers. And the only time I've been "countered" is when I mess up. You didn't help me see anything that other people haven't already failed to accurately depict: there is no counterplay to Deathslinger, because I CAN JUST SHOOT YOU. I have yet to ever be in a situation where a survivor actaully outplayed me, and the only counterargument to that is that in hnndreds of trials since his release I somehow never, ever went against a single good survivor.
It should not ever be on one player to screw up massively. That is why m1 killers are terrible, and that is why opressive chasers are terrible.
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Anyone who thinks Slinger has counters - contact @ScottJund and ask him to set up a playdate with Zubat as Deathslinger. Counter him.
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Not to mention landing a much harder shot (long range) ALSO gives them way more opportunity to break out.
Oh well if Scott Jund said so then we should all just accept that and stop thinking for ourselves.
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I've only seen people complain he has no counterplay when they try to apply the same 'counterplay' as they do to killers that don't have a speargun... like, looping around low obstacles, running away in a straight line etc...
OP has a very good point, and gen speed is a counterplay as it's part of a strategy... there's a reason why 3genning is a thing survivors try to avoid.
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I didn't say "Scott Jund said". I said get Scott to set up a playdate with you and Zubat. He'll show you how there is no counter to a good Deathslinger.
But okay - put words in my mouth. Nice strawman, kiddo.
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You missed the point. It's not about Scott Jund, but about playing against Zubat using DS. And showing us your counterplay.
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The thing is, Deathslinger has two dumb Tools in his Kit:
Free zoning by faking his Power
Shooting without any reaction time
You cannot react to a shooting Deathslinger, it is simply not possible, it is too fast. And by faking his power, he gets free zoning potential, meaning he can use it to get you outpositioned.
The only thing that somewhat works is to stick on Gens and use high-wall structures as much as possible. Last thing is RNG tho, and you cannot stick on thos structures all the time. And against a good Deathslinger, it is really hard to avoid getting shot/hit.
It also does not feel rewarding at all if I "dodge" a shot. Because the Deathslinger missed. It was not anything I did good at this point. Huntress, on the other hand (as another ranged Killer), feels rewarding when dodging a Hatchet.
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Cool well I watched a streamer stomp like 20 games in a row as Blight, so obviously BlIgHt HaS nO cOuNtErPlAy because good killers can practise them and beat people.
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@SloppyKnockout as well
right the points is that we should balance killers around the top 1% of players out there.....yep that makes sense.
I was ready to leave a strong reply to Scott's video because in general I tend to not agree with him at all but at the end he made a conclusion that was my entire point: "ultimately this is a nothing burger, im talking about nothing here because very few people play at that skill level".
EXACTLY, so many seem to completely forget the human argument, the fact that you want to push zubat to prove a point rather then doing it yourself shows the exact non-problem this is.
Most deathslingers miss shots and you can fake loop a jungle gym and just keep running, multiple circles around a map while gens get done with this slow killer on your tail, apart from some maps (Midwich) deathslinger is rarely ever a real problem.
This is also the entire reason why Hag is not that much of an issue, not enough play her well enough that she becomes an issue.
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Plenty of reaction time from long range, why should you be able to react at close range?
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There is a counter against deathslinger - you can pre-drop pallets. He only has 110% speed, so he has much smaller pressure... Sure, he can zone pretty well and is good in chases, but that's why he's slower than other killers.
If you pre-drop a pallet, he can only injure you, but not down you.
Now compare this to PH. Not only he has 115% speed, he also doesn't care about pre dropping pallets. You don't drop it? He can instantly M1 then. You drop it? He just uses his power to down you over it. It is PH who has no counterplay.
Edit: Whoops, didn't read the whole post. Still, my point stands
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Snapshot slinger has no counter-play. The drawback is you have to be good at snapshotting.
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That challenge is the stupidest thing ever and there's a good reason no one has accepted his challenge. Survivors, by design, aren't supposed to 1v1 killers. What does that even mean anyway? Survivors are meant to waste the time of the killer, not beat the killer.
We can assemble a survivor team made up of survivors that are comparable to the skill level of zubat and he will get dominated every single game if he plays a bad killer like deathslinger. The fact that people think that a survivor must be able to outrun or beat a killer on a cat and mouse game where there's 4 survivors and 1 killer is the single greatest problem this game has in term of balance. This is a PvP game, but it's also a team game, from the survivor perspective. It's also odd that in talking about balance, Scott uses the context of one of the best killer players in the game vs an average survivor group because good survivor groups are rare and I guess survivors go up against top tier killers every game.
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You missed the point as well. It has nothing to do with stomping a team. It was claimed that DS has counterplay, So as to proove this, the one that claimed it should play against a real good killer (zubat) and show us his counterplay. Just a chase in custom games would be enough for demonstration. Nothing more.
And don't know how this would turn out, but I guess it would be a glaring defeat for the claimer. Not just bc. killers are meant to be stronger in 1on1, but because DS has some uncounterable tools like aim spamming / free zoning, which removes any real counterplay, so it boils down to whether DS hits his shot or not.
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I dont think that's the argument hes trying to say if you think slinger has counterplay verse a good one and showcase it. I doubt you could. If im wrong give probe it to me.
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All the arguments about deathslinger boils down to whether you think a 50/50 is counterplay or not. I think survivors should actually have a chance to be downed so I'm fine with the 50/50.
Some people will say a good deathslinger wont miss but I can tell you from a slinger main standpoint that it is total BS and there is no situation where a slinger can hit EVERY shot.
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This topic again....
YES he is op in chase
YES his mobility sucks
NO, he is not Overpowered in general.
BUT YES most find him annoying or frustrating.
Thats it, the whole story of Deathslinger. No matter how many Threads you will make, it will always be the same unless they change Deathslinger.
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I've done the math on this and even at max range you cannot react to his shot if he aims well.
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He definitely does have a counter, keep objects in between you and him and try to make distance, he can’t shoot over them like huntress can. In an actual chase he is very strong but saying that he has no counters just isn’t true
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the problem is it doesnt take skill to just put things between you its not engaging for either side
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No it doesn’t, but that message was mostly directed to those people who go around saying that deathslinger doesn’t have counterplay, you do this and he can’t do anything to get you especially with the fact that he has only 110% movement speed. I can compare this to predropping pallets against killers like clown or Freddy, very unfun an non-engaging for either side
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Well tbh it's the same thing you do vs nurse. How many people do you see who can juke good nurse while in the open and close to her ?
Same with DS, you need to cut his LOS and get as far away as you can or you're in trouble.
I guess people hate him so much because he shares quite a bit of her mechanics in terms of "counterplay". Nurse was generally hated by survivors since her release, only after her last "small change" which made nurse pick rates drop drastically people stopped complaining about her and found new targets.
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The counterplay is
- spread out so he has to spend more time going to survivors to get into a chase in the first place
- drop pallets early if injured
- use terrain and relatively unpredictable movement to maximize the chance Deathslinger will miss his shot
With a perfect aimbot style Deathslinger always hit? Sure. You can't "dodge" his shot. But nobody is perfect and so you play to try to increase the chance they misfire or misjudge when not to fire. Just because you can't 100% dodge his shot doesn't mean there aren't counterplays that can increase your chance of survival.
And Scott Jund didn't really say Deathslinger has literally no counterplay, he said the counterplay "boring". As in he wants to be able to dodge Deathslinger's shots because he thinks that's more fun than just using terrain to you advantage, etc. He even in the same main video specifically said he didn't think Deathslinger was "overpowered", just that in a chase he's not "interesting" and countering him is "robotic". (Though to me simply watching for an attack and dodging it when you see it coming seems more robotic than planning a route to maximize terrain cover, just my opinion though.)
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His power just really isn't fun to go up against, I hate it so much.
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@BioX Is there a way for me to pin this comment all the way to the top?
A lot of people forget that a lot of the devoted dead by daylight streamers are on a whole different league, or the top 1% of Top Tier skill/experience. So when Zubat claps cheeks at a fast pace with Deathslinger, or Tru3Ta1ent feels that the Clown is S tier, well they have the advantage for being just really damn good at the game. And the majority of the player base are casual players, so of course the game should be balanced around the casuals.
I could continue but I'd rather keep this response short. You get my vote for being my favorite comment so far!
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Thank you kindly, blessed stranger, for dropping some wisdom upon our sacred land!
I don't watch Scotty but if what you say is true then that helps a bunch with clarifying things here.
I ain't trying to win a discussion with my post, I'm just trying to shed some light on the Deathslinger and giving ideas for ways to counter him. Obviously if you can use his strengths really well and cover his weaknesses with perks then yea, dude be shootin up a storm and clappin all the cheeks of the wild west! But isn't that any killer if you play em right? Just some killers are more lethal than others, that's all.
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if Deathslinger did have counterplay within the chase, he'd just be dogshit. That's just kinda the way of the game. He's slow, has no secondary power or any sort of utility.
He's not the only killer with little to no counterplay within the chase anyways. A good nurse, a good spirit, a good blight, a good pyramidhead, even a good doctor using the range add-ons, they'll all down you pretty much no matter what you do, and there powers have other uses to boot.
If deathslinger's chase was nerfed, he'd need substantial buffs in other areas to avoid falling to the bottom of the tier list. He'd be like clown. A power that's moderately useful in chases, but serves no other purpose. It simply isn't enough to make a viable, or balanced, killer.
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Preach brother! I think he's fairly balanced, lot of ways to counter or delay the slinger.
I don't get the argument about being unable to dodge him when he is close though. Why does the Huntress not get the same reaction? She can snipe you from far and up close without having to reel you in.
So what makes him more of a problem, is it his small terror radius? Is it cuz his 18 meter bullet shoots faster than the infinite range Hatchet? Really I believe it is cuz a lot of people don't like playing against Deathslinger, and that's perfectly fine. Just, don't be saying he got no counterplay, the man isn't the strongest killer and I'd hate to see him nerfed cuz of this.
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Could not have said it better me-self! Congrats @Lufanati, ye getting promoted to Deputy!
On a serious note, I agree completely. If his chase potential is too much, then you would need to nerf that but compensate with a great buff elsewhere to keep his momentum. As he is, I think he's strong enough. If you down the Survivors quick enough, it makes up for his lack of map control.
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Thank you kindly, people ain't good at quick snip asap that stuff takes practice. Just like learning to play against a Deathslinger takes practice, thanks a bunch the quick but to the point reply 😁
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To the OP. Deathslinger being Tall is both a Pro and a Con. Its a con for the reason you said it was. It is a pro because on certain short loops, the Deathslinger can spear you over the loop, wrap around the edge of the loop and bayonette your face before his chain breaks.
Also whenever I see people say Deathslinger has no counterplay... I just have to wonder... have you played as him ever? Here's a big hint... the spear by itself cannot down you. He needs to reel you in and stab you for that to happen. If he's able to do that, that means you got outplayed and shot in a spot without something for you to get yourself stuck on. If you do manage to get stuck on something during the reel and you are already injured... congrats you just wasted a TON of his very precious time. Your goal isn't to not get shot... because you are going to get shot, its to not get stabbed after the shot.
Also I'd just like to say... it is possible to outplay getting speared through a window. I'm pretty sure it isn't easy, but I've had it happen to me a few times where I reel someone to a window, swing, and then don't hit them. Usually that happens when the Survivor is able to be all the way to one side of the window then quickly rotate to the other right as or right before I swing.
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Let me tell you @MrLimonka I identify as a Pyramid Head Main and I don't take kindly when people be mentioning how powerful he is cuz I don't want Phineas to be killed like they did to Ferb, ya got that??
Kidding, i'm kidding 😆
PH is definitely tough to handle, he does a lot of mindgames that are in his favor same with Spirit. You can't tell if he's dragging his dic-i mean sword for show or if he's prepped to punish ya as soon as you drop that pallet. He's a 60/40 mindgame, try to play chicken with him and keep to wide areas so his Punishment of the Damned sturggles to land. I suppose just like in Silent Hill, the best counter to Pyramid Head is keeping your distance from him or else...
Also thank ya kindly for giving my post a read. Ya get a cookie! 🍪
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👏👏👏
Someone grab Behavior and tell em to hire this man here!
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What would be considered a victory in that scenario for the Survivor?
People forget when you in a chase, you try to delay them from getting to ya as long as you can. I would like to escape the Killer, but that's not my decision to make it is theirs. If the Killer wants me dead, I'll be dead, but ye bet I will do my darnest to make him earn this here kill!
I'd be laughing if the match starts and the Survivor finds the hatch and leaves asap as the winner 😂 that would be fun.
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Yer right, it is a pro in that manner as well. Best example would be the pallet loops in Blood Lodge, Slinger can snip right over them and best ye can do is zig zag on your movements to throw his aim off. I didn't list that as a pro but I'm aware of it, could fit it under the pro of his bullet having a small hitbox.
Deathslinger is good at a lot of things once he is up close, I just don't see why so many say he got no counter to him. If the Killer got a weakness, that's a counter.
Hide from the Nurse. Keep obstacles between you the Cannibal, use windows versus Hillbilly, and pre-drop pallets versus Huntress.
Then people say ya can't do nothing against his shot when hes 9 meters close. Why is that a problem? If I am a killer and I am that close to you, I sure hope i'd be getting a reward for that. And why is this an exclusive issue for Deathslinger when the Huntress can land hard to dodge shots up close as well? Her Hatched hitbox is larger too, so I would probably say she got a bigger advantage within 9 meters then our cowboy here.
I just hope people start to open up to these ideas and explore em a bit. Closing yourself off from suggestions hinders your ability to learn and progress, and that bites. Sure glad to know you caught me slipping on that pro, thanks for the reminder sir.
Here, have a cookie! 🍪
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it's not a question of "fair". It's a question of "fun" and if the survivors in a Deathslinger (DS) match can be anything more than bots/moving targets.
A lot of survivor fun comes from being reactionary, and many killers enjoy pushing a survivor to react in a certain way to get a hit. With DS, survivors can't be reactionary (the only thing that matters are the physical objects in the map and if the DS misses or not), and that sucks a whole load of fun right out of the game for a majority of more skilled players.
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I can see that, and I am actually very very thankful you said that. You gave me a new perspective that I didn't think about, thank you for that.
If I may contribute to your point, I felt like the fun with playing against Killers like The Spirit, The Nurse, and The Deathslinger for example is that they are powerful in the chase. I understand what you mean, it is a lot of fun being in a chase and managing your ground, but part of the fun for me against these other killers is that I can't face them head on like i can with Legion or Wraith. No, you need to hide and keep your distance. So for me, it's fun because it brings me back to horror on its ground roots, facing a threat you cannot best. So for a moment, the game becomes Outlast and hiding becomes the better option. Hiding at a corner or inside a Locker and seeing them walk by and leave, it's spine tingling and very satisfying to evade those encounters.
And I think not a lot of people like that, hence why they dislike playing against Deathslinger for example. I hope I helped explain my perspective back to ya, but serious credit for explaining yourself incredibly well 🙂
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np; it came after many rounds of playing against Deathslinger, not having fun, and wondering, "Now, why is that?"
Additionally, I never think "wow, nice juke" when I play Deathslinger. I only think, "oof, I missed" because I consider (basically) no part of the survivor's input when I shoot.
I've moved on from those realizations to now just being really confused as to why someone designed him the way he is if the developers that make important decisions actually play the game (as they say).
Edit: I love facing a great Nurse player (granted good ping, no Infectious, etc.), and the last time I had that experience was before her fun-nerf. Some of the most tense, most exhilarating moments of DbD for me have come about as a result of The Nurse.
:,( you will be remembered for what you once were...
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You aren't mean to be able to counter his quick scoping ability, that is the entire reason he has literally no cooldown with it at all. His counterplay is to not give him the chase, in chase if he is good YOU LOSE because you are meant to, he is an extremely high skill cap killer and his power reflects that. If you struggle with him "faking" his power then try to adopt the W strategy a bit more and avoid the chase as much as you can because it takes him a very long time to catch up.
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Agree with you so much, for some reason people think it's fine because you can do gens vs them, same with Spirit and the other commonly complained about killers. It's not about strength or balance, map pressure whatever - it's about fun. The fun in dbd isn't sitting holding M1, it is the chase, it is not fun or satisfying, nor do I feel remotely outplayed EVER vs a Spirit and in 95% of situations vs a Slinger. Maybe <5% of the time they actually hit a really good shot through a crack or something.
I can play in a 4 man, see it's a Spirit or Slinger who's boring af so we just sweat gens and 4 man escape, the only fun to be had at that point is when you tbag them at the gate since they picked Spirit or something, because the chase is boring, doing gens is boring - literally the entire match is boring and it's why I'll never advocate in favour of DC penalties when such killers exist that you literally can't have fun against unless your enjoyment is being an urban evasion blendette and holding m1
People need to understand that Freddy, Spirit, Slinger, Phead, Clown, Trapper aren't fun to go against because they aren't satisfying to play against in a chase, not because they are strong - hell the two commonly most deemed unfun killers outside the main 4 are the worst two in the game, yet nobody thinks they should be nerfed obviously.
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no counterplay ≠ unbeatable
a team who plays well by early throwing pallets and sticking gens will still win, but the game will be extremely boring. Killers like PH, deathslinger, doctor, spirit all have a very unhealthy design in how they're balanced. They're pretty strong in the 1v1 but so much so the way you beat them is by playing as safe as possible and when survivors play as safe as possible and do gens as fast as possible you have games that are extremely unfun for the killer.
Basically the way to beat them is to make the game unfun for the killer but the alternative is losing to a very unfun killer to play against.
The problem with deathslinger power is that because he can fire so quickly (and thus leave not enough time for a human to react) and also has no cost (no slowdown/cooldown) to only pretending he's about to shoot, that leaves the only counterplay as throwing pallets before the killer even has the opportunity to try and make a play at the pallet. This is boring as a killer because if survivors paly well you will just spend the entire game trying to catch up to survivors with your 110 speed and kicking pallets. If the survivors don't do this, all they can do is try and guess whether or not the slinger will actually shoot. If the slinger is bad he may miss shots but if he's not he'll just m1 you while you waste time juking or if you don't juke he will just shoot you.
Pyramid Head has a similar problem. When he sticks his sword in the ground, he slows down a little bit, but is still faster than the survivor. This means anytime you reach a pallet, PH will stick the sword in the ground then if the survivor does not throw the pallet they ran through he just cancels his power and will hit them with a basic attack. If they throw the pallet. Pyramid head will be able to hit them with punishment of the damned because throwing a pallet stops you from moving for ~1/2 second which is more than enough time for pyramid head to react.
Doctor also has a similar problem to deathslinger. Upon reaching a pallet a smart doc will make you completely unable to throw it and eventually get a hit by repeatedly shocking you just before you reach the pallet. Eventually he will catch up to you and get the hit even though he slows down when he uses his power because it doesn't slow enough to cause the survivor to gain a significant amount of distance. This makes the counterplay to throw the pallet before he can even shock you. Even then the pallet may be short enough that can he can still get the hit by shocking you to stop vaulting, but not all the time. At the pallets where this works, you have the same situation as deathslinger, you spend the game just kicking pallets and running after survivors with no mindgames.
Spirit's problem is more unique in that the problem is a lack of feedback for the survivors. Survivors are told so little about what the spirit is doing that when you get hit it often feels like all you were doing was running around like a headless chicken just trying to hopefully confuse her, but in the end everything is on her side. A survivor who plays well may be able to delay a decent amount of time by holding W against her but it's very unfun to do because the game feels like it's entirely in the killer's hands and lacks the back and forth interaction between killer and survivor that makes the game fun. The spirit player gets to do all the interacting while the survivor is basically just throwing the bones and hoping they get a highroll.
tldr; These killers encourage survivors to use boring play styles because it's the only way to consistently outplay good usage of the killer's power and the alternative is just getting killed by something you couldn't have done anything about. These killer aren't overpowered, they're unfun. The solution would be to adjust the powers to be more fun (inevitably making them weaker) but to give them a compensation buff in some other way.
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For starters, he needs an actual animation of lifting his gun. About like spirit when she was missing a vaulting animation, a completely unbalanced omission.
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