http://dbd.game/killswitch
About Technician and Perk Rarity Simplifying
Hell no. To the second one, more than the first, but my sentiment remains true regardless.
Technician, by its design, is meant to be a perk that reduces the downsides of repairing close to a killer and of failing a skill check (in that the killer is drawn closer); it is a generator stealth perk.
However, because of how few skill checks survivors miss over the course of the match, Technician usually only functions as a noise-reducer. Additionally, killers will often just leave generators with missed skill checks be, knowing that the generator will get done later rather than sooner due to the penalty to repair progress.
One situation where Technician does work (and surprise, surprise, it's with a Doctor perk) is when a killer has Overcharge and the survivor is unable to hit the skill check. The survivor can just keep working on the generator without alerting the killer that overcharge was triggered, giving the survivor the benefits of hitting the skill check while suffering a repair penalty as compensation.
This new Technician shows great promise in actually hurting newer players who bring it (and older players are definitely not going to touch it). Technician is giving no added benefit from the 100% explosion reduction because it isn't going to prevent killers from coming over to the gen any more than 50% is, because the killer will just assume the survivor hits all of his/her skill checks and will take that into consideration when patrolling gens. Meanwhile, there is an increased penalty to failing skill checks. This part right here is what is going to lead to much player frustration with Tinkerer users, if only because some survivor approaches a gen that's being worked on, fails a skill check just before it is about to be finished, the skill check is extra penalizing, and the killer manages to prevent the generator from being finished. Wouldn't you aim your displeasure at this survivor too? Moreover, this change will be even more enticing for players who don't typically play survivor but are afraid they might miss a skill check, but these players do not know that equipping the perk hurts them significantly more than it helps them (like No Mither).
What Technician should do is below:
Technician
50% chance to not notify the killer when gen skill check is failed
slightly (6 meters) / moderately (8 meters) / moderately (8 meters) reduces repair sounds
slightly (3%) / slightly (3%) / moderately (6%) decreases skill check progression penalty
This allows for survivors to miss more skill checks while having the extreme penalty (in terms of critical and timely repair progress) of doing so reduced. It's gen stealth but with an added bonus. There's no reason that this perk should have a downside.
And about perk tiers:
Comments
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The only people who use it are newer players, they are going to get matched with new killers. New killers tend to go to the explosion when they don't know how to properly find people or where they hide, its just good as a change
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But the problem a newer players usually won't immediately jump on head unless they pick Feng Min right away.
A general consensus of the community is usually to go for things like iron will, adrenaline, sprint burst and we're gonna live forever before tackling anything else. So by the time these people have pretty much leveled up for different characters they're pretty adept at dealing with skill checks so they're not going to really be using technician anyway.
The only time this is in the case is if the new player in question usually just starts out as Min because they like her aesthetically.
That's the problem with having perks for new players be teachables by the timer player gets the perks it's usually recommended for them they are experienced enough at the game that they don't need to even worry about things like Windows of Opportunity or technician.
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New killers also tend to wander around gens just as much as they would target a specific gen that has exploded.
Anyway, the devs shouldn't be making perks for specific ranks. I'm saying that I would love to use Technician, but the lack of any additional benefit beyond what the perk currently does dissuades me from it, and adding a penalty would push me away from it even more.
Most failed skill checks happen because the survivor has to let go and start running away from a killer or because the killer has perks equipped to make skill checks more difficult. Both scenarios result in survivors being near the killer anyway, and the 100% explosion reduction doesn't matter because the killer (99% of the time) already knows what close-by gen is being worked on and where the survivor that was working on it went.
Essentially, the change is an outright nerf to the perk for no good reason.
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Technician is getting nerfed twice.
First with the new gens
Second as an intentional nerf.
I liked the reduced noise when repairing, but now it doesn't offer that AND RNG will screw you. If the killer is coming and you leave the gen right as a skillcheck pops you've lost a lot of progress. The 10% will probably go up to 15% or 20%. It's funny how they nerf a bad perk and buff mediocre perks.
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When I first played, I had no idea about anything. I picked Feng after reading through many of the perks and thought "Technician, Lithe, and Alert look like the kinds of things I'd want". You're assuming most players check with the community before choosing, and I find that unlikely given we have millions of active players and maybe a few thousand on the forum.
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When i first started itook technician, slippery meat, self care and urban evasion.
I didnt knew what was bad and what was good back then and i didnt wanted to check ask others tho
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I gotta admit, of all the things that can be picked on, one thing I find silly is attaching an admitted "newbie" perk like Technician to a survivor you can't get in the base game. How's a new player going to even get access to this perk? Do you think new players just buy all the chapters before actually, y'know, playing the game?
By the time they decide to buy Feng, I'd think they can hit enough Skill Checks to make this perk somewhat obsolete.
You might want to just make Feng free if you're looking at her to be someone new players play. Throw more niche survivors with niche perks like Nea if you want newer players to still have to deal with the same paywall.
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Well that is quite possible and console platforms. PC doesn't have immediate access to Min it would require you to make an investment.
If it's an investment of shards by they time they accumulate enough to actually get her they are going to be experienced enough to the point where technician isn't really useful.
On the other hand a lot of people choose to get acquainted with the game before they make payments to it meaning it's unlikely that someone who just got into the game with little to no experience is going to randomly by Min's chapter.
However you also forget that the forums aren't the only place to gain access to the community. Facebook groups, Reddit, twitch, YouTube even groups on the respective platforms.
Acting like the forums is the only place to get information from the community is a little bit foolish.
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Can I just add to this that at this point, Spark of Madness should be free on PC.
It's really ######### to get new friends into the game and be like "hey there's a perk that's really great for when you're learning BUT you need to spend 10 bucks to get it!"
There's enough DLC for people to pump money into, the survivor with training wheels doesn't need ot be one of them.
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This... or at very least, make Feng free on PC. If you really want, you can throw Nea or some other base survivor with a very niche, newbie unfriendly kit behind a pay wall. But if Feng is designed to be the good newbie survivor, you can't stick her behind DLC no one's gonna buy until they, y'know, PLAY the game a bit first.
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If you were a new player on the PTB who brought (PTB version) Technician into a match because you didn't know any better, I'm sure you would cause a lot of heartache for the other survivors working on generators with you (i.e. when you're feeling like it's better to fail skill checks with Technician on than off). More frustration and anger at other survivors wasting precious time is not what this game needs. Technician should not have increased generator progression penalty.
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You underestimate the power of the failed check not alerting the Killer of where you are.
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People also underestimate how good this perk is for experienced survivors as well, because of the more silent repair noises. Most good killers know the exact range of generator noises, and technician really throws them off, unless the killers has surveillance or something like that.
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Well, two things. The stealth part is still a thing, they did not say that the reduced sound is being removed. And the regression should REALLY not be a problem unless you go against Unnerving Presence (and even then...).
Second: you are of course allowed to use the perk however you want, but if you say this is a gen stealth perk, and devs say this is a beginner perk, then Technician is a beginner perk.
That teachable thing is not that big of a problem. I just started with a friend and he had the benefit of me and my brother bringing a handful of event cakes, so he needed 5 hours of total gametime to max out his first character and hop on the next character to unlock teachables. So, another 3 hours and he has the next perk on his maxed out character. And every 3 hours he can get the next perk. Or maybe every 5 if we don't count in additional cakes.
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By the time a "new" survivor player gets to 9000 shards to buy Feng, they shouldnt be failing skillchecks to the point of needing Technician. If technician was truly meant to be for new players, every survivor should start with it at Tier III.
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I actually am a survivor who uses Technician on occasion (which is why I'm invested in this thread :/), and the prevention of the failed skill check notification is always an awesome feeling. Like, really awesome. But that feeling only comes from the fact that it wasn't guaranteed. I had a 50/50 chance of it happening, and I got lucky. Regarding of alerting the killer where you are or not, I've used Technician in scenarios where I or another survivor are the only ones left, and we're both working on generators (I'll touch on other scenarios later), and I must say that I disagree with you.
Scenario:
I am a survivor trying to stealthily repair generators. The killer has a 32 meter heartbeat. I do not have Spine Chill (Technician replaced it). Once the killer finds either me or the other survivor left alive, we are done for. My goal is to repair one generator for as long as I think is safe and then slink away to another one, starting repairs on that generator and leave the killer searching around an abandoned generator. Eventually, the repair progress should amount to one whole gen (if gen regression wasn't so significant, this wouldn't take the 20 minutes it does :/).
- I fail a skill check during repairs. With the current Technician, I have a 50/50 shot of not alerting the killer and receiving the normal penalty of a failed skill check. Let's say I get lucky, and no notification is made. I've already left the killer at a different gen, but now I've just lost some valuable progress. Technician manages to make that less punishing by allowing me to stay on the generator just a little bit longer before having to move off preemptively (I need as much distance from the killer and my gen as possible). This time, I don't move to a different generator, and the killer (let's say Trapper) leaves because he thinks the generator has been abandoned like the last one.
- I return to the gen. Surprisingly, he has Overcharge, and Technician doesn't save me from this one. The Trapper comes back, and I have to make a tense getaway. He kicks the gen again and fails to find me. It regresses while he searches for me. I return and fail the skill check again, but this time, Technician prevents the explosion. I have just wasted a bunch of repair progress, but I am able to continue working for a little longer before I slink off to go complete repairs on a different gen.
Scenario with new Technician:
- I fail a skill check during repairs. No notification is made, but I receive an added penalty to repair progression. I keep working, but the Trapper eventually comes to my generator. He kicks it. He has Overcharge. He leaves.
- I return to the gen. I miss the skill check. I get more penalty than I would have otherwise and don't alert the Trapper. However, because there are so few gens left, The Trapper has already seen the previous gen is still sparking and comes back to mine. He kicks the gen, which regresses while he looks for me, and leaves. I fail the skill check again, losing additional progress due to Technician but do not alert the Trapper.
Scenario without Technician at all:
- I fail a skill check. The Trapper comes over. He kicks it with Overcharge and leaves.
- I return. I miss the skill check. He comes back and kicks it again, looking for me. It regresses. I come back and miss the skill check again. I dip and am long gone, already starting work on another gen. He returns, knowing that he missed me once and spends extra time looking around that gen, which is time I use to put into another generator.
In terms of time wasted from least to greatest, it goes Scenarios 1, 3, 2. In terms of danger factor for a survivor who gets off of gens preemptively, it goes 1, 3, 2, where 2 messes with the survivor's senses the most, encouraging the survivor to stay for longer before the killer comes back and try to make up that extra bit that Technician took away.
I am trying to show three things here: how the prevention of missing a skill check is not being underestimated, how much more time is wasted because of new Technician's penalty, and how new Technician encourages survivor players to be more stupid when it comes to working on gens stealthily.
With old Technician, I have the benefit of knowing that when I fail a skill check and a notification pops, I have to leave immediately, getting myself away from the killer's destination. When no notification pops, nothing is any different than if I had just stopped repairing the generator for several seconds, and I still have to make an educated guess on when the killer will come over.
With new Technician, I will be getting an added repair penalty for failing skill checks, and I'll want to stay on gens in intervals longer than I should because I would want to make up for lost time due to my perk. I've neither given myself a reason to move to another generator nor given myself any benefit to staying on it.
The situation where I don't have Technician seems to be the worst of all three, (and in this case it is), but for situations where a group of survivors is trying desperately to finish a generator as the killer is approaching, new Technician can suddenly become an incredible burden.
Technician should be reducing the penalty of failed skill checks rather than increasing it, and this would both align with the use of the perk and be useful even in situations where the killer does know where the survivor is already.
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Most killers hear gen progress and go off of that. Only in niche cases does Technician allow for survivors to repair right nearby the killer. Usually in those cases, however, gen tapping to prevent sounds will work just as well. And regardless, that's not the part of Technician this post is focusing on.
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Feng is free if you play on the Xbox, so is Doctor and Hag
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I'm not talking about the reduced sound because that wasn't changed. I have no issue with that, so it's not here.
Secondly, stealth is not mutually exclusive with beginner even though you heavily imply that it is through "you say...[but] the devs say, [then the devs are right]". I never said anything about it not being a beginner perk, but I did say something about how it would be nice if it could also work for more advance players. Perks shouldn't be solely designed as "beginner perks". That's silly. Limiting the amount of perks that are useful to one side or another is exactly why so many perks aren't considered for the "meta"; their strange restrictions and effects aren't of any use. Furthermore, feeding into the meta is never really a good idea when it comes to balance.
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At least there should be no harsher regress with technician.
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(Shrug) - then they need to make Bubba free for killers, as BBQ is nigh on essential when you are starting out.
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Windows of opportunity is pretty useful even to an experienced (solo-q) survivor imo. Lets me run without having to check tiles for dead pallets while im at it.
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As someone who uses a lot of Surveillance, on stealth killers especially so, people also severely underestimate the power of the generator repair noises.
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Man I here I was going to use Technician in my survivor build
I mean I'm still going to use it but less then I planned
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I don't imply that stealth is a beginner thing. I don't know where you get that from. That is a strange way of concluding. Why I said that is because they decided to buff the beginner aspect of that perk (as they want it to be a beginner perk) and you said they ruined the stealth aspect of it. Which I don't even think they did, because the stealth aspect is still there, even better than before.
And it is only your opinion that there should be no beginner perks. There are not many perks like that anyway (Visionary, Deja Vu, Technician and Windows of Opportunity are the only 4 perks I can think of on survivor side), so the meta argumentation for 4 perks out of 75 perks does not really fot for me.
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My only thought about technician's buff is I can finally alt tab while doing gens
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yes. this. just this. this is my entire point about technician.
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...but that's not what I said. The only thing you appropriately attribute to me is that the devs shouldn't be designing beginner only perks.
I also feel like you don't understand what mutually exclusive means... I said that stealth is for all players and that includes beginners too.
Technician is worse because it increases skill check penalty and makes beginner survivors think it's more alright to miss skill checks because it's safer. It also helps to make other survivors more annoyed at you when you miss a skill check on a gen they are working on, especially when the killer is headed straight for it.
I....I really don't know why you're talking about stealth as if it just means going unnoticed passively. I also don't even pass judgement on the stealth part in my post...
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Alright, I missed the mutually part. Still: I imply nothing regarding that with the statement I made. My only point was you saying "by design it is a gen stealth perk" which is simply your impression or maybe wish. You want it to be a stealth perk because you use it like that. And I only disagreed with that perk definition.
My opinion is, that I rather take the regression than the notification. This is a scenario for early to midgame as well, when you sit together on gens. Because unless the killer is already busy, the gen will not get fixed. We don't know about numbers yet, but I guess while repairing with 2 survivors, this will hardly take the gen longer than 5 extra seconds when working together on it if you miss a skillcheck. When there is no notification, these 5 seconds are unlikely to have an effect.
"promoting bad playstyle" is not an argument for me. This is the same argumentation why Selfcare is regarded a bad perk, which is wrong. It is the survivor who decides to play bad or make bad usage of a perk
I think it is common sense that missing skillchecks is a bad thing. No perk will change that and especially Technician will not cause missed skillchecks because new survivors say "why not?". If at all, it will cause more failed skillchecks because the perk is used to train great skillchecks, which is not a bad thing at all. If you think that, it would be like saying "pls don't train looking backwards while in a chase. you ruin the game for me by running into obstacles, ending chases more quickly than necessary"
Your scenarios above in your reply to Almo I don't really agree with. This is endgame only and not the only situation where the perk can take effect. And I don't get how the stealth aspect of the perk is related in these endgame situations. If you leave the gen that early to not get found, then you don't even make use of the reduced audio range. I think the stealth aspect is more relevant in situations where the killer is busy with a chase, allowing you to repair it anyway, without him noticing it by audio.
And pls explain two things in more detail, just in case I misunderstand again:
- "especially when the killer is headed straight for it" what difference does it make when the killer is coming anyway? The gen is blocked for 3 seconds and normal fails regress it by 10%, you won't finish it anyway after a miss
- What exactly do you think I miss on stealth? By definition it is either being undetectable or acting/moving cautiously (roughly). I don't know what you mean with passively and what active stealth I apparently ignore
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Had this issue with Windows of Opportunity, was recommended it by friends cause I was total dogshit and could never find resources. Didn't need it by the time I unlocked it. These new player perks are pointless when they are locked behind a paywall and some additional grinding (and you can't even argue it's not a paywall, cause if you are additionally grinding the 9k iri shards and using it for a newbie perk, you are either A) Making a pretty terrible decision and you will benefit way more from an actual good perk or B) You don't need it by the time you get it
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I don't have a problem with the change to Technician. It's clearly for new players, so they don't just miss a skillcheck and freak out. As for perk rarity, I do like the idea of being able to buy upgrades, instead of just luck, but I don't see tha happening in the near future.
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I will edit this later to respond to the rest, but I don't know why you have an issue with a categorization of Technician as a stealth perk.
Stealth: going unnoticed or less noticed. Technician: reducing generator explosions and making sounds less noticed.
If this can't be labeled as a stealth perk, then something is wrong with the world.
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There is nothing wrong with it. It just sounds like you want that to be a stealth perk, and that it is against any kind of rules to move away from that and make it a newbie perk. Sounds like you want to disallow BHVR to do that.
And with that stealth explanation, I'm not sure what you criticised on my posts
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