Objectives disbalance

@DeadByFlashlight said:
Talking about objective unbalance.
4 survivors need 110 seconds at gens to complete their gen objective.

A single survivor stays 2 minutes on hook until he dies

A single person on a gen without any aid takes only 80 seconds smart guy lol

@Rebel_Raven said:
Cymer said:

I would love to hear both sides. Survivors and Killers, what would make the game fun for you and what do you expect from the game?

I as a survivor would love to feels the danger of a killer and a rush to complete gens and get out alive.
But as it is right now I just press m1, run in circles or hang around if I messed up.

As a killer I would love to feel empowered, be able to hunt down those survivors and kill them.
But right now I just run around, run in circles, eat pallets all days, that they should release a Willow wood character and pick up and hook the survivors like I do with laundry at laundry day.

As a killer, I'd like to have a decently long match as close to the original spirit of the game as possible. 
A decently long match, some chases, some hits, some hooks, hopefully a sacrifice, or two. 3 or 4 is nice, but i don't expect those to be common.
The less the survivors can communicate outside of perks the better.

As a survivor, I'd like it if lithe wasn't going to become less and less useful. I hate sprint burst until i can suppliment my non running speeds. 
Can't really complain about much. I'm terrible at evasion, and decent at stealth. 

I'd like it if the trial was treated like a date. Don't rush to penetrate, and don't make a dash for the door asap. Lets both enjoy the chase, and have fun. 

Well put Raven. Well put.

DeadByFlashlight said:

@CallMeRusty420 said:

@DeadByFlashlight said:

@CallMeRusty420 said:

@DeadByFlashlight said:
Talking about objective unbalance.
4 survivors need 110 seconds at gens to complete their gen objective.

A single survivor stays 2 minutes on hook until he dies

A single person on a gen without any aid takes only 80 seconds smart guy lol

yes and 4 survivors working optimally on gens take 110 sec, to be precise it actually only takes 80+28.57=108.57 seconds

Wait can you explain where you got the 28.57? I'm missing something. And did you mean that 4 survivors working on a gen each?

yes first each survivor works solo on a gen(80), then all 4 on one (28.57)

Thats the optimal way to do it

Speaking of survivor objectives, I feel like the way blood points are awarded is detrimental to the fun of the game. As an example, I hate how an hatch exit grants 2k BP, because these extra points lead players to stay in the game, even when gates are wide open, and wait until they are the last survivor to grind some more points. If anything I believe the hatch is a 'last chance" escape that shouldn't be rewarded in any other way than just surviving.

On the same note, I believe blood points are too generous in the altruistic area and not enough rewarding for the main objective, which is getting out alive. This unbalance makes survivor playing "funny", doing things such as running straight in the killer arms when he's carrying someone, farming teamates on the hook, relentlessly taking hits on purpose, just for the fun of getting healed. This type of strategy wouldn't exist if they weren't something to gain much greater than something to loose. Not to mention SWF groups whose are just as powerfull as they can be thanks to their stronger organization, and at the same time, their flawless team spirit playstile is by far more blood point rewarding than the common solo stealth gameplay.

By lessening the altruistic's action rewards, solo players and different smaller SWF groups might want to focus more in they own survival, instead of just running around the killer, body blocking and mindlessly trying to save people after the generators are done. This rework of the blood point attribution alone, might give some of the power back to the killers, and hopefully smoothe the balance up. Here's some examples:

• Hatch exit : 5K (this includes the 5k for surviving)
• Gate exit: 10K -1K for each other survivor who escaped before you. (this includes the 5k for surviving)
• Hook save (safe): 500 bp
• Hook save (unsafe): -500 bp
• Great Skill checks (any kind): 300 bp, because trying to hit them can be risky sometimes. So risk -> reward.
• Evading the killer (after 10 seconds): 1000 bp.
• Being chased by the killer (after 10 seconds outside a chase): -500 bp.
  ... etc.

@Tizzle said:

@DeadByFlashlight said:

@CallMeRusty420 said:

@DeadByFlashlight said:

@CallMeRusty420 said:

@DeadByFlashlight said:
Talking about objective unbalance.
4 survivors need 110 seconds at gens to complete their gen objective.

A single survivor stays 2 minutes on hook until he dies

A single person on a gen without any aid takes only 80 seconds smart guy lol

yes and 4 survivors working optimally on gens take 110 sec, to be precise it actually only takes 80+28.57=108.57 seconds

Wait can you explain where you got the 28.57? I'm missing something. And did you mean that 4 survivors working on a gen each?

yes first each survivor works solo on a gen(80), then all 4 on one (28.57)

Thats the optimal way to do it

Yeah because the Killer never chases anyone in this game....

Killer can only chase 1 person down.

The fact you can run around a normal killer for minutes is the most ######### gameplay decision the dbd team ever made and after 2 years, they didnt let go of it.

@Tizzle said:

@mcNuggets said:

@Tizzle said:

@DeadByFlashlight said:

@CallMeRusty420 said:

@DeadByFlashlight said:

@CallMeRusty420 said:

@DeadByFlashlight said:
Talking about objective unbalance.
4 survivors need 110 seconds at gens to complete their gen objective.

A single survivor stays 2 minutes on hook until he dies

A single person on a gen without any aid takes only 80 seconds smart guy lol

yes and 4 survivors working optimally on gens take 110 sec, to be precise it actually only takes 80+28.57=108.57 seconds

Wait can you explain where you got the 28.57? I'm missing something. And did you mean that 4 survivors working on a gen each?

yes first each survivor works solo on a gen(80), then all 4 on one (28.57)

Thats the optimal way to do it

Yeah because the Killer never chases anyone in this game....

Killer can only chase 1 person down.

So how are 4 Survivors doing generators?

The minimum time to complete is around 160 seconds, less with whatever time two Survivors doing a gen takes.

The time a gen needs is 80 seconds to be accurate.
With multiple survivors on it even less.

How is a killer supposed to hook survivors 12 times in the time of 80 x 5 (most optimal way) seconds?

The devs need to finally adress this issue and entitled survivors mains should stop playing church and prevent the evolution of this game.

Having a challenge in the game and a more fun and thrilling game is in the will of nearly every player of the game.
It was supposed to be a horror game actually.
Now it's just a killer getting bullied by survivors.
It's not about nerfing survivors entirely, the game just needs balance.
The killer shouldn't be able to immediatly end the game, but the survivors shouldn't have this chance either.

xxaggieboyxx said:

Cymer said:

DexyIV said:

This is why you selectively slug and get as many survivors onto the 2nd stage of the hook as fast as possible early game. Plus survivors are overly altruistic in the current meta so chances are, all of them will hop off their gens for Benevolent points if they aren't SWF.

I know but slugging is bad and unfun to play against.

Yeah but so is getting looped and gen rushed so idc if they don't like being slugged 

@Cymer said:
As a killer with no Mori and the survivors not letting someone die. (And you not facecamp that one hook) he has to hit every survivor at least 6 times total of minimum of 24 hits and hook them 12 times to end the game.
The survivors on the other hand only need to complete 5 gens and open one gate to escape...well actually as a survivor you only need to complete 2 gens. Sit in a corner for the rest of the game, not die and jump through the hatch. So 3/4 things to do. Complete 2 gens. Don't die and find hatch. GG

This post. I just can't.... it hurts my brain too much. It feels like someone has hammered 24 nails into my skull and then hooked it 12 times. Are you seriously trying to suggest that the killer should only have to hit survivors 5 times to win since there are 5 generators? You've taken the whole apples and oranges metaphor to a whole new level.

DeadByFlashlight said:

@Dabrownman1812 said:
DeadByFlashlight said:

@CallMeRusty420 said:

@DeadByFlashlight said:

@CallMeRusty420 said:

@DeadByFlashlight said:

Talking about objective unbalance.

4 survivors need 110 seconds at gens to complete their gen objective.

A single survivor stays 2 minutes on hook until he dies

A single person on a gen without any aid takes only 80 seconds smart guy lol

yes and 4 survivors working optimally on gens take 110 sec, to be precise it actually only takes 80+28.57=108.57 seconds

Wait can you explain where you got the 28.57? I'm missing something. And did you mean that 4 survivors working on a gen each?

yes first each survivor works solo on a gen(80), then all 4 on one (28.57)

Thats the optimal way to do it

Are you new or something? 2 minuted to die on hook gauranteed if they get face camped by leather face, if not it isn't two minutes. It's whatever time it takes to find, eat a loop, and hook. Optimally people will work on separate gens as if it takes a killer over 90 seconds to find and down one survivor 3 gens would have popped. 10-15 seconds to find survivor, maybe 60 seconds at least in chase unless survivor is a noob, then hook 78 seconds, then find another survivor which is at least 5 to 15 seconds. You gotta be a troll or survivor main.

I am a killer main btw, we were talking about pure objective time, i.e. gentime or time on hook.
But even looking at those numbers, completely forgetting about looping....... its kinda insane

Damarus said:

@Rebel_Raven said:

As a killer, I'd like to have a decently long match as close to the original spirit of the game as possible. 
A decently long match, some chases, some hits, some hooks, hopefully a sacrifice, or two. 3 or 4 is nice, but i don't expect those to be common.
The less the survivors can communicate outside of perks the better.

As a survivor, I'd like it if lithe wasn't going to become less and less useful. I hate sprint burst until i can suppliment my non running speeds. 
Can't really complain about much. I'm terrible at evasion, and decent at stealth. 

I'd like it if the trial was treated like a date. Don't rush to penetrate, and don't make a dash for the door asap. Lets both enjoy the chase, and have fun. 

As a killer, I love when I succeed into mind gaming one of those who I am chasing, whoever the killer I am using may be.

As a survivor, it gives me some thrill to escape a chase.

Before anyone starts calling names on me, I am not a survivor nor a killer main. I play both almost equally, resulting in just a little more survivor matches when I am with a friend (a friend, NOT three friends).

The problem is, a LOT of killers either camp or tunnel you to death. I have just played against a trapper who put three survivors hooked next to each other, on the Swamp, and camped them to death. As soon as one was unhooked, in a little time frame, he started tunneling again.
Killers camping is something that has to change, no matter what people say, that is not a strategy. First of all, a strategy requires thinking, planning, and I don't see much planning into staying near a hooked survivor until he dies. It may be necessary sometimes, when you have to hook people near an open exit gate, but nothing more than that. As a killer, I never camp people I hooked unless, as said, they are near an open exit gate. And I expect others to do so, or to get penalized to oblivion. I don't care if the person being camped is me, a friend or just a guy who I don't know; by camping, you are making the game unfun for that player. And people claiming that "it's not the killer's job to make you have fun" are just stupid. As killers find it toxic and blame survivors for flashlight saves or teabagging, survivors may have the same opinion on them camping. And since this is a game, it MUST be designed to let both parts have their share of fun.
The difference is that a hooked survivor who is being camped has no chance to do anything else, but the killer can always catch a DS noob or someone who has just been flashlight saved, often without a minimal effort, in a matter of seconds.
I feel like they are going in the right direction by penalizing killers who camp and making both pallets and hooks be farther from each other, but it still isn't enoug to prevent camping. And now, we get to the part where people, as above, say that killers have to hit suvivors twice each.. Many still forget that the majority of Billys, Myers and Leatherface players will only ever go for instadowns, not even trying to hit people with a normal attack.

Survivors, on the other hand, need to avoid teabagging (unless the killer was a c**t). I would like to say pallet looping needs to be avoided too, but there really isn't much a survivor can do to escape a tunneling killer, especially since they can rely on Bloodlust to catch up, being encouraged to tunnel even more. I think, to prevent pallet looping, that survivors should also have a way to slow down a killer, perhaps placing traps in a similar fashion of those the trapper uses (with a big, noticeable visual difference). Again, they are probably going in the right direction, by making pallets more distanced one from the other. Oh, and people who farm, unhooking survivors just to get points, when the killer is already in visual range, should also be penalized in some way. maybe losing more points than those they gain for such a save. Now, killers keep complaining about Self Care. I don't really have any problem with that, since I can usually find survivors before they are fully healed. If you are having problems, A Nurse's Calling is your solution. Again, I don't really feel like putting a limit to the times you can heal yourself with Self Care, but the devs have already made it so healing requires more time in general, on the PTB, and that sounds just about right.

Overall, there is just a general unbalance on both sides, with the killer having a little upper hand. If you think about that, Myers, Billy and Leatherface have a built-in instadown (and rarely do I see people hooking survivors just by hitting them twice, with said killers); Huntress, Trapper and Clown all have ultra rare add-ons that make them instadown with their powers; and a Nurse with 3 blinks is already the most powerful killer out there, let alone with 5. Survivors do not have the privilege of having something, at their disposal, to make the killer instantly lose them Well, this is my take on the game, I still love the game itself, I only wish people would be more sportsmanlike.

Damarus said:

@Rebel_Raven said:

Oh, so killers are supposed to walk away from hooked survivors no matter what and give free unhooks?
That's what it sounds like you're asking for.

Sometimes we know others are there. Sometimes the gates are open.
Sometimes the decoy was too annoying.
Sometimes the survivor was toxic as hell.
Sometimes we have to thin the herd, and slow your team down.
Maybe you have 4 gens done and can't really pressure the killer to leave due to the pace of the gen rush.

It's a valid tactic. It's not fun for the survivor but a short, dirty trial isn't much fun for the killer.
Giving up points it's always fun for the killer. 

And here we are, already starting with the usual salt. If you weren't in such a hurry to prove that camping is a "tactic" (and I'll have to try my best not to laugh here), you would have read my post. There are points with which I say that sometimes you can't avoid it, when people are close to exit gates. Should I have written that too, since it is that obvious? Do you still need people to warn you about looking both sides, before crossing the streets? Survivor is toxic? Fine for me if he gets camped (but that's totally up to interpretation; for some people, a survivor may be toxic just because he was better than them). If you camp someone who was just put on the hook for the first time, and I have seen that done even to people who just started moving, YOU are the one who is being toxic. If you hook people one by another to camp them better, YOU are the one who is being toxic. And for the "free hooks" thing, of course. I do never camp, as I hate people who do (and who prove their skill level to be much below zero), and that's the whole thing about it. If you are good enough, you will get them anyway, before or after some other survivor. And there is a reason why so many people slug the last survivor they downed, when only two are left. You people need to look at things for how they are, instead of making it a personal matter because that's the only way you can play "Camping" someone hooked near an open door, or even a hatch, is different. I'd see that as securing a kill, which would otherwise result in the survivor escaping. Standing in front of someone hooked far from an open door until he dies, on the other hand, is actually camping. If you are any good (but, should I judge things how easily as you do, it would look like you are not), you should wander the map to put pressure on every single gen. Or do you believe that Hillybilly is top tier just because of instadowns? Oh, should I also add to that the fact that hooking a survivor more than once gives a lot more points? I guess the tutorial was pretty clear on that part, but I know some people skip even those. And one last thing: I find it very interesting you noticed how "short trials and giving up points" isn't fun for the killer, yet you don't seem to care for survivors who don't even get to safety pip because they have been camped until they died, on the FIRST hook.

@DemonDaddy said:
@Damarus
If the new system passes the ptb,  campers will be forced to patrol an Outer Perimeter. The post is in regards to objective balancing which is directly in Survivor favor. Every action a killer takes provides more time for survivors where the reverse is not true. I'm not saying it's an impossible for Killers to win, the game would be truly broken if that were the case. My point is for an asymmetrical game the rolls seem to be backwards in terms of time pressure and map control.

How will it force them to?
You think people give a ######### about emblem?
A metric ton of people willingly depip by disconnecting for a vast ammount of reason (because high rank isn't "fun", because of long queue times, because they don't like that x killer is overly used in this rank etc...)
Most people won't give a ######### about losing on emblem point.